Watering coco

[Redz91]

Have read cultivators guide which I am going to follow.
Plan is to give enough water that the pot is light enough to be watered again 24hours later. I have done similar in the past and had amazing roots. Plus his photos in the guide thread look amazing. Just wondering does anyone have a link to a diary following his method?
Also plan on doing things how others and myself have done things in the past. Watering the pot and then leaving the pot to get light before watering again.

With the watering so the pots light in 24hours. At first it will take hardly any water due to the plant not yet having much roots spread. The guide speaks about giving multiple feeds daily in the end. At first though should the focus be more on increasing the water given over time?

I mean if 30ml is enough that the pot is light enough in 24hours. Over time if you just increase the amount of times you give 30ml as the pots drying quicker. Your still only saturating the same area multiple times rather than the whole pot. i know cultivator isn’t bothered about run off which I get. Should at least increase the water before moving to multiple feeds though?

 

[013]

Hey Redz91

Welcome to 420….I’m in time crunch this morning but wanted to shout. Below is a copy and paste from another coco problem on today’s faq page - while it doesn’t answer all your questions it does drive home some of the differences….. full disclosure = I’m soil grower but this is what I’ve learned about coco over past year



For starters…… forget everything you think you know about growing or watering a plant….. ALL of the rules have now changed because of the fact that you are growing in coco coir

Coco is not the same as soil, coco coir is totally inert - there are zero nutrients in coco to sustain a plant….. so it must be bottle fed nutrients. Coco provides a place for roots to grow but thats where the buck stops, your girl is perpetually hungry.

Coco falls into a uniques category called soilless and soilless is considered as drain to waste hydro so hydro rules apply meaning adjust ph to 5.8 …… adjusting ph is very important for coco grows, this puts the nutes in the proper range to help the plant uptake them properly, cal-mag is important too if you don’t have it then get some pronto

Plain water or plain ph adjusted water does nothing to help your plant grow in coco coir…. the plant needs feeding (mix low dose or quarter strength nutrients with your water every time) coco should not be allowed to dry out. You cannot run a true wet dry cycle in coco like one does with soil

there are other concepts with coco like feed to slight runoff each time - this applies once the plant is larger the idea is deliver nutes with enough volume to wash out a small portion of the old nutes and deliver the fresh nutes…

hopefully @Bil284 can jump in later

 

[Redz91]

I have grown in coco so understand it’s not soil and about not letting the coco completely dry out. Also never had any issues I can’t solve regarding deficiencies and nutes.

I have just simply been impressed with cultivators roots in his photos on the guide. It reminded me of how I done things once and had probably the best roots I’ve ever had. So gonna try that again with a plant or two and see how I get on. The other plant I will carry on as usual. Water until pots saturated then wait for the pot to get light and water again. Sort of like soil I believe but not allowed the pot to get quite as dry. At the earlier stages of rooting a pot a wet/moist cycle but closer to the dry side is how I have done things. Once rooted then water as much as you like.

I am just wondering more about cultivators guide and sadly doesn’t look as if he is in here as much these days. With watering daily just enough so the pots light for another feed in 24hours. I think my way of thinking makes sense but loads of replies to the guide so thought perhaps someone could confirm my thoughts and if they are correct.

watering for example 30ml at first and the next day pots light enough for a watering. Eventually the roots develop more and 30ml sees the pot light enough for a next feed before the 24hours period. Now I could water 30ml and when pots light enough again give another 30ml before the 24hours period. I know his guide is pushing for multiple daily feeds. My thinking is though that 30ml won’t saturate the whole of the pot. So should I increase the water over time until I feel the whole pots getting saturated before thinking about moving to multiple feeds.

If it takes 30ml to be dry the next day but that only waters 50% of the pots volume then it’s gonna stay doing that even if I give 30ml 3 times a day watering when the pots light enough for a feed.
where as I’m thinking I should give the 30ml and when it gets to the stage where it’s drinking that before the 24hours period. Then look so slowly increase the amount given say move up to 40ml. keep doing that until it’s drinking that amount in 24hours. Then increase again, until reach the amount where your giving enough that the whole pots getting saturated and being drank so it’s light enough for the next feed in 24hours. Before moving onto multiple feeds a day which is where the guide ends up.

I wish cultivator was still on here lol or others who’ve used his guide can chip in?

 

[Redz91]

potted up 3 seedlings yesterday. Watered one as I usually would, then watered two in the hope of more following cultivators guide. With watering them so they are light enough the next day for a watering. Well one got 25ml the other 30ml. Both are still too heavy for a watering but I think next time I’ll give the same amount as the coco will be drier than when it came out the bag. I’m not letting the coco dry out completely but just want the pots light enough so they are watered every 24hours as the guide said.

I have done similar very similar in fact to the guide before which gave me the best roots hence why I’m so keen to give it a try and hopefully get it right. Will be enough that drink what they are given in a day and then will look to slowly increase it until the pots fully saturated but being drank within 24hours.

anyone know of any diaries using cultivators guide? Or even his old diaries as I couldn’t find any. Those in his signature didn’t really seem regularly updated as he had other shit going on.

 

[Mayne]

in order for the coco to "dry" out. It A- either has to be hot in the grow area, or B- Has to be FULL of roots, and of course, BOTH together, would significantly reduce water Weight of the pot at even a faster timeframe.

What i gather from your post or theory, is it just doesnt need alot of water early in its life, so there is no need to soak it entirely, until, its older with more root mass.

Also, coco's PH rises if its not readjusted with watered feeds. SO, if the bottom coco isnt being replenished, the PH in the area could be 6.8 before you know it. The PH swing up is beneficial, but the clock needs reset daily. This is why its even beter to water X amount every day till runoff of the same amount you put into the pot on any given watering.

Im not a Coco pro, Ive just really started using it, but this is the info Ive been learned to keep in mind for a good coco grow.

 

[Redz91]

I usually saturated the pot and get some run off. Wait for the pots to get lighter then water again. The time it takes to get light becomes less and less as the roots grow more. Until the pots require watering daily until run off. The thing is doing this at times I have found slower and not always had the best roots.

The method which cultivator described in his guide with only giving enough so the plant needs to be watered daily each time. I done that once just randomly, got back from work gave a little water and each day it would drink that around and I slowly increased it over time. The roots without a doubt was the best I have had. Also only have to look at cultivators roots. Thats why I’m willing to try this method again and hopefully get it right.

if it all goes wrong it’s not even the end of the world for me tbh as waiting on some clones as we speak and I’d just run them and grow them how I usually do.

 

[Redz91]

All pots still have bit of weight to them even though today is the third day. I think they’ll be ready for a watering tomorrow. Interestingly the pots I gave 25ml too, are same sort of weight as the one I watered 40ml. Can see a root poking out the bottom of two of the plants.

I think as the coco has some moisture out the bag it’ll be more doing thinks like cultivators diary from the next watering once the pots have gotten lighter. Then can really judge how much water is needed to see a pot light enough for a feed the next day. And fingers crossed that gets roots going wild like his. plus myself previously I had amazing roots watering daily just enough so the pots light enough for a feed the next day. Roots proper wrapped the whole pot in no time at all.

Still will be treating one of the three how others mostly do it with coco though. Watering till bit of run off and waiting for the pot to get light enough for a watering. As the plant grows and roots increase the time it takes to need another watering becomes less. Once rooted just water daily then.

 

[Redz91]

Can I ask a question thats proper basic and covered many times and I have had successful grows.

How are most people watering there coco to achieve the thick white roots that wrap the pot?

I see people saying water every day, I have tried that in the past and haven’t had impressive roots. I usually allow my pots to get light then water and the frequency required becomes more and more. By the time I reach flower I am watering daily. I let the pot get light but not dry out to the point the plant is looking droopy from thirst.

I have just watered all 3 of mine today. I gave one 40ml which saturated the whole pot, the other two got 25ml. I’m doing that as I want to try cults method of giving enough so the pots are light enough for a water the next day.

I have zero issues ever with plants and their health. I just seem to always have really shit roots and I am using canna as a root stim. Would really love to know where I am going wrong,

 

[Mayne]

I think im going to run wet/dry cycles in my coco this run.

I know Im seeing alot of this, "water every day" because coco is inert stuff, but if that was 100% truth, why do we buffer the coco with calmag from the start, if it doesnt retain nutes? I understand that it steals the P in it and needs balanced so it doesnt just eat and calmag, but it does hold nutes evidently if buffering is done, to ANYTHING, correct?

I also do know, plants like dry cycles MORE then wet cycles.

I can see if your using straight perlite, or gravel, but Im just having a hard time with the whole soilless theory.

Im also a big GrowBoss fan, and he would kick me straight in the nutes if he knew what i was doing with my coco, LOL

So Red, lets go a step further, and lets wait till they DROOP,

 

[Roy Growin]

Coco holds a lot of air, so there is no need for a dry cycle - quite the opposite in fact, a dry period can damage root tips
Letting it go to droop is fine in late flower but otherwise keep it damp, like how it comes out of the bag at least
You cannot over water in coco, only too often so with a bit of judgement it is foolproof
Kelp/Humic acid is good for roots, but you must use an enzyme product in coco or it won't work
I use BioBizz ActiVera, but have used Cannazyme in the past

 

[Mayne]

Coco holds a lot of air, so there is no need for a dry cycle - quite the opposite in fact, a dry period can damage root tips
Letting it go to droop is fine in late flower but otherwise keep it damp, like how it comes out of the bag at least
You cannot over water in coco, only too often so with a bit of judgement it is foolproof
Kelp/Humic acid is good for roots, but you must use an enzyme product in coco or it won't work
I use BioBizz ActiVera, but have used Cannazyme in the past

I use recharge every feed, which has kelp and humic acid, and i also use MegaCrop as my nutriant, which also is loaded with enzymes.

We are always told, roots like to search for water, even in young seedlings, we are told not to water everyday, even in coco. So, we wait for the roots to "mature", THEN hit them with a load of water everyday? Doesnt that stop the roots for wanting to search for water to build more root hairs? Even in DWC, we can see, rarely do we see tiny root hairs, it just looks like a colander full of spaghetti noodles.

So, when we dry coco out, it leaves air pockets, and air flows through the coco, if your air circulation is proper. Sure, dont let it totally dry, even in soil its not beneficial, but drying to 80% dry weight, ive found to be good time to water.

Coco will dry out faster if there is more root biomass then there is coco, so then, of course we would water more frequently.

Now, ive been growing in cocoloco for some time, its my favorite medium to grow in to date. Its coco and peat mix, and is considered soilless, because it has coco in it, and ive seen many say, water everyday, and they seem to look just fine. But i can tell you first hand, Ive let it dry, and over dry for DAYS, and they thrive. Ive waited for them to droop, and they seem to love it, and perk right back up within an hour, never looked bad.

Im going to plants some seeds in my mix, and im going to let them dry out as i did with cocoloco, and see what happens.

Truth be told, i never liked coco in the past, because i hate watering, not going to lie. So i steered away from it and went to cocoloco, because on the bag it says, "water Less" because it has coco and holds 10x its weigh in water.

 

[Redz91]

Well I killed all 3 seedlings just now lol got pissed off with how poor the roots looked on them.

I have zero fear about over watering coco, I know it’s extremely hard to do that. I was always lead to believe you can though if there are hardly any roots. I know coco holds oxygen so the plant won’t look over watered but also the roots won’t have to go search for any water?
I was always told let the pots get a little light at first when trying to root out the pot? Course once that’s done you can hit the plants with as much water as you like.

I have zero problems with plants looking healthy the only thing I seem to suffer with is the roots in coco. Probably more towards getting roots started from seed. Whenever I’ve been given rooted clones I have had zero issue with getting great roots.

I have some photos of my old grows where I had planted a seedling that’s popped up in a jiffy. Into the first small pot, watered till run off. Then waited for the pots to get light but not bone dry and watered again until run off. Ended up with decent roots then as well. Yet doing that this time hasn’t worked. Wondering if putting them under a 400w had the coco drying faster than the roots was growing? as last time I was just vegging at first under a cfl.

I think I am gonna have to just wait until I get paid and then offer to pay my mates travel costs to pop round. He grows in coco with the same nutes and always has had good roots. Will only need him to show me once exactly how he is watering and I’ll have it then. I know he doesn’t water to run off and hasn’t got any issues with salt build up etc.

this is some photos of my old roots, plants was only under a 250w cfl then. Small round pot, then into 3litre water until run off and water again when pots feel lighter. The 3litre pot roots is a difference of 5 days. They all look much better than the roots I am seeing these days.

 

[GrowTek]

I defiantly agree with @Growings . Don't let the coco dry out. Also, if your reason for letting it dry out is so the roots can search for water, why do roots continue to grow in DWC setup where they are in direct contact with water all the time? The wet/dry cycle is for soil, not coco. Here is a picture of the roots of a plant I grew in coco. I watered it 4 times a day the whole time it was in flower. As the plant matured, I gave it more water to achieve 20% runoff every time.

 

[Redz91]

I don’t have fear of over watering coco I’m not one of those people just for the record. although I have at the very early stages over watered a young plant? Then have heard people say it is possible if the roots haven’t really developed yet.
The plants I recently killed, I watered daily regardless of the pots weight. The plants grew but yeah the roots was poor.
I understand not letting the coco dry out completely. I wouldn’t ever do that. It’s just I have had better roots in the past than what I saw this last time round with watering daily till run off regardless.
I seem to do better with starting from clones than I do seedlings for some reason.

I got some next seeds started that I am going to put into their first pots today. Still waiting in some clones so thought might as well try some freebies and see how they do.

 

[Mayne]

yeah, its universal teachings to water very light and spaced out in their younger days. I had a few laggers do to over watering but they pulled thru do to watering overly to much early on.

 

[Roy Growin]

In the second pic of the group of 3, you can clearly see that water is not reaching the bottom of the pots so the roots have actually turned round upwards to find top water, the bottom of the pot is actually completely drying out
Occasionally letting the pot sit in the run off is a good indicator of how dry it is down there; if it's dry it'll suck up water quickly, if it's slightly wet/correct then it will not draw up any more
You'll be surprised how much water the coco draws up, but never too much
Your roots are at the stage where you need to make sure you wet the whole pot

 

[Mayne]

But you also have to either empty the runoff container, or keep it very clean if your allowing wicking after the runoff.

 

[Roy Growin]

But you also have to either empty the runoff container, or keep it very clean if your allowing wicking after the runoff.

Yes, that's why I say 'when the coco has stopped sucking up water'
What I mean by that, is then empty the tray and let if drain if need be
Sorry if I didn't make that clear

 

[Redz91]

In the second pic of the group of 3, you can clearly see that water is not reaching the bottom of the pots so the roots have actually turned round upwards to find top water, the bottom of the pot is actually completely drying out
Occasionally letting the pot sit in the run off is a good indicator of how dry it is down there; if it's dry it'll suck up water quickly, if it's slightly wet/correct then it will not draw up any more
You'll be surprised how much water the coco draws up, but never too much
Your roots are at the stage where you need to make sure you wet the whole pot

oh no lol easy to think that. That was from a fairly old grow. I accidentally spilt some water and wrongly assumed it was run off. apart from that time I watered to run off.

 

[Mayne]

30 days from seed-- each coco plant has been topped couple times, with 26 potential colas so far from each.
2 far left are in cocoloco, ( coco-peat-perlite mix) Get just calmag water
so, here are plants that only get feed, or watered when dry, in coco coir.
Feed,water,water, water,Feed,
feed days consist of 150ppm calmag, 600ppm of MegaCrop ( per gallon )
water days consist of 150 calmag, .5 gram recharge ( per gallon )
They dry out, almost bone dry, but i do end up watering/Feed something every day, they need transplanted.
Oh, and forgot to add, I do not PH my water, so its about 6.8-7.0