Do these plants look damaged?

pete2

Well-Known Member
Some one posted that these plants will recover from all the damage.I deleted the post before I could ask what they meant.This is what I am to understand is HST. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong
Welcome opinions and criticism on this matter
:thanks::thumb::thanks:
 
pete2, unless you kill either the root structure or all the growth terminals, it will continue to heal and grow. You could accidentally split your main stock down the middle to the ground, put it back together and tape it up. As long as there's no infection it would likely mend then continue growing. Plants want to live....especially WEEDS!

Best not to ask how/why I know that, lol. :oops:


:allgood:
 
pete2, unless you kill either the root structure or all the growth terminals, it will continue to heal and grow. You could accidentally split your main stock down the middle to the ground, put it back together and tape it up. As long as there's no infection it would likely mend then continue growing. Plants want to live....especially WEEDS!

Best not to ask how/why I know that, lol. :oops:


:allgood:

Thanks for the insight.I thought that was true but didn't know for sure. While I have you here I would like to ask a question.Here are some pics with my current problem.I am hearing that it could be spider mites or a calcium deficiency.I added a calcium supplement a few days ago and these spots on the leaves have gotten worse.If they didn't need a calcium supplement,would this hurt them? Would like to have your opinion on this Thank-you
deficiency_8-7-2015_001.JPG
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deficiency_8-7-2015_003.JPG
 
Since you've bent that thing all over I can't tell where on the plant the problem is occurring.

Are the affected leaves newer or older or all over? Obviously older leaves would be 'lower' on the plant.

What are the new growth sites doing? Do they look normal or are they starting to twist funny? Any discoloring other than a normal light green color?

How do the roots look? Nice and white, browning in areas, browning all over?

What water are you using? City tap, well, RO...other?

What is your target PH?

What nutes and additives have you used and in what quantity?

Answer those and I might be able to diagnose the plant/system rather than a picture.

If it's spider mites you should be able to see them. Mostly on the under side of the leaves, sometimes on the underside of stems. If you have a magnifying glass, jewelers loupe or other similar magnifying device, you should be able to spot them. If you see them, treat the whole plant with your choice of treatment.

It certainly LOOKS like calcium deficiency to me, but saying that you added more and it seems to be worsening makes me think in another direction.

It's possible you either have an overabundance of Ca or N. Too much of either one will affect K uptake. While your pics don't look spot on for K lockout, sometimes plants have multiple issues expressing themselves and makes diagnosis harder. So to answer your question, can adding more Ca hurt things, yes, it could.

Now that's an out of the box theory mind you. Ca toxicity is pretty rare.

Another idea is too much K can look like a Ca deficiency.

Right now I'm thinking there is a Ca and K related problem, in one way or another

My recommendation (assuming you don't find the spider mites) is to flush and change your nute solution, cleaning the system in the process. Start with your 'basic' nute recipe at 1/2-3/4 your last strength. Leave out the fancy additives. If you're using a 2 part nute system, just give it the 2 parts. If you're using a seaweed micro nutrient or something, that should be fine too, just start at 1/2-3/4 strength. Make sure your PH is right on with the nute manufacturer recommendation.....then observe. Check the PH as often as possible to make sure it's not swinging. Does the plant start getting better within a week? Look to the new growth to tell you, but also watch the old leaves. They all have a story to tell. The dying should stop and new growth will be vigorous. Damaged leaves will not get better, so if they are damaged 50% or more, or have yellowed go ahead and remove them.

Many will tell you that adding more of this or that product or fert is the thing to do. I say you run a higher risk of compounding the problem. This is chemistry which most don't understand. 9 times out of 10 we are loving them to death in some way and don't understand how/why. Stop, breathe and get back to basics. Answer the above questions and we'll see if we can find the real problem.
 
I tend to disagree that you can abuse your plant a whole lot after 6 weeks flower.

But in veg, yea, they can take a lot of crap and keep on ticking.

Follow my DWC journal, Pete2. I'm on flower 4th week

You should tell us everything your putting in the res and we can help you out.

Vlad
 
In flower? I wasn't aware we were talking in flower. If I'm training I'll stop at least 1-2 weeks before flower. After it starts flowering I'll pinch popcorn sites, and that's about it.

I just stripped the HELL out of my plant in week 4. Solar panels? What solar panels ? :rofl:

For me, they are root and stem builders, after that, their mission is completed. The leaves I pluck that is.

Vlad
 
since you've bent that thing all over i can't tell where on the plant the problem is occurring. Yea i know i'm trying to learn hst. Guess i need to practice some more.it is my first time.

Are the affected leaves newer or older or all over? Obviously older leaves would be 'lower' on the plant.
Mostly in the middel of the plant.i saw tonight that only 3 of the plants have spots on them.

What are the new growth sites doing? Do they look normal or are they starting to twist funny? Any discoloring other than a normal light green color?new growth looks small but fine in color

how do the roots look? Nice and white, browning in areas, browning all over? I changed the water in them tonight am only going to use plain ph balance water for a few days.when i took the air line out it had some slimey stuff on it
slime_and_sick_004.jpg

my roots have some of that on them as well,the inside of the buckets did not have anything in them. Don't figure

what water are you using? City tap, well, ro...other?purified from wal-mart

what is your target ph? At 6.0 lately been checking every day

what nutes and additives have you used and in what quantity?dyna-gro vegetation bottle says to use 1 to 3 teaspoons per gal.i use 2 teaspoons per gal.the cal supplement says 1 teaspoon per gal so that is what i put in each one



answer those and i might be able to diagnose the plant/system rather than a picture.

If it's spider mites you should be able to see them. Mostly on the under side of the leaves, sometimes on the underside of stems. If you have a magnifying glass, jewelers loupe or other similar magnifying device, you should be able to spot them. If you see them, treat the whole plant with your choice of treatment.i looked at them tonight with a magnifying glass best i saw a few white and black spots.like i said these spots are only on 3 of the plants

it certainly looks like calcium deficiency to me, but saying that you added more and it seems to be worsening makes me think in another direction.sorry,but that is not what i said.what i said was that i thought they had a calcium deficiency and i put a supplement in their water.a few days later i started seeing the spots.

It's possible you either have an overabundance of ca or n. Too much of either one will affect k uptake. While your pics don't look spot on for k lockout, sometimes plants have multiple issues expressing themselves and makes diagnosis harder. So to answer your question, can adding more ca hurt things, yes, it could.i didn't add anymore,i took it all out.i didn't see any mites and like i said there is 1 plant that don't look like the rest.i do appreciate the help and advice

now that's an out of the box theory mind you. Ca toxicity is pretty rare.

Another idea is too much k can look like a ca deficiency. Don't know what k is.please explain

right now i'm thinking there is a ca and k related problem, in one way or another

my recommendation (assuming you don't find the spider mites) is to flush and change your nute solution, cleaning the system in the process. Start with your 'basic' nute recipe at 1/2-3/4 your last strength. Leave out the fancy additives. If you're using a 2 part nute system, just give it the 2 parts. If you're using a seaweed micro nutrient or something, that should be fine too, just start at 1/2-3/4 strength. Make sure your ph is right on with the nute manufacturer recommendation.....then observe. Check the ph as often as possible to make sure it's not swinging. Does the plant start getting better within a week? Look to the new growth to tell you, but also watch the old leaves. They all have a story to tell. The dying should stop and new growth will be vigorous. Damaged leaves will not get better, so if they are damaged 50% or more, or have yellowed go ahead and remove them.

Many will tell you that adding more of this or that product or fert is the thing to do. I say you run a higher risk of compounding the problem. This is chemistry which most don't understand. 9 times out of 10 we are loving them to death in some way and don't understand how/why. Stop, breathe and get back to basics. Answer the above questions and we'll see if we can find the real problem.
thanks
 
Sorry about my response to you last night.I tried something out of the box and I guess it didn't work out very well.
I am bending my plants but only to have a larger harvest.It's my first time and apparently I need a lot more practice

Mostly I find them in the middle of the plant.The new leaves seem to be find except they are pretty small
The roots have a little bit of dark color in some areas.I changed the water last night and am only using plain ph balanced till I/we can figure out what it wrong.
the water I use is purified from wal-mart.Not sure how they purifie the water.
PH level target is 6.0.Right now I am checking it every day.
I am using Dyna-Gro system.The bottle says to use 1 to 3 teaspoons per gal of water.I have been using 2 teaspoons per gal of water.I also thought I had a calcium deficiency about a week ago,so I bought some calcium supplement and put it in as the bottle said.1 teaspoon per gal of water.Sorry if I mis lead you but I did not say That I put more of the cal supplement into them. What I said was that after I put the calcium supplement in it,then the spots started showing up.Thats when I decided to put them on a straight diet of plain water till I/we can figure out what is wrong.Thats when I found some kind of slime on the outside of the air lines.Then I found some more on the roots.The water didn't feel like there was slime in it nor did the inside the buckets have any in them.If there is slime on the air line and the roots it seems that it should be on everything
I'm not sure where you guys got the idea they were in flower,if I said that I wasn't aware of it sorry.They are about 48 days old and are still in veg.
I checked for spider mites but didn't find any.All I have to look at them is a magnifying glass.I don't know what "K" means you will have to tell me that.Hope this answers all your questions.Thanks for helping me with this
 
Yea i know i'm trying to learn hst. Guess i need to practice some more.it is my first time.
You're doing fine on the training. They're not dead and you are learning :thumb:

Mostly in the middel of the plant.i saw tonight that only 3 of the plants have spots on them. OK. For learning sake I'll say : Always take note where the problem is occurring. Specific nutrient problems occur in specific ways, some high, some low, some all over the plant. That has to do with what nutrient it is that's the problem, where it's being used at that phase of growth and whether that nutrient is a mobile or immobile element once in the plant. This coupled with what is happening on the leaf can tell you everything in a lot of cases.

I changed the water in them tonight am only going to use plain ph balance water for a few days.when i took the air line out it had some slimey stuff on it
my roots have some of that on them as well,the inside of the buckets did not have anything in them. Don't figure
OK, slime is not good. Is it clear, or clear but brownish? Is there any way light could be getting into your buckets? Clear air lines, light passing through the buckets....anything? You'll want to search root slime and read up on it. What you've done (clean PH water) might take care of it, you might have to add some H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to clean it up more. I never had slime when I grew in my RDWC, so I never had to combat it.

purified from wal-mart Well THERE'S your problem! You went to Wal-Mart! I kid.

At 6.0 lately been checking every day Not bad. Unfortunately PH is always a compromise situation. 5.8-6.2 is where you want to stay.

dyna-gro vegetation bottle says to use 1 to 3 teaspoons per gal.i use 2 teaspoons per gal.the cal supplement says 1 teaspoon per gal so that is what i put in each one Never even seen Dyna-gro. No idea if they're designed for what were doing. Anyhow, the directions say 2-3 tsp for a recirc system and 1 tsp for non. Do you have a reservoir? If so what size. Also, and this could tie into the slimy roots, what's your water temp in the buckets?

Also, what Calcium supplement did you use?

i looked at them tonight with a magnifying glass best i saw a few white and black spots.like i said these spots are only on 3 of the plants If you're sure the white spots aren't teeny tiny mite eggs then OK. Tiny black spots are usually bug dung. There's a site with great pics. Do a google search on "spider mite cannabis", then look for the sight that's 'EASY'. You'll find it. I can't link to it.

sorry,but that is not what i said.what i said was that i thought they had a calcium deficiency and i put a supplement in their water.a few days later i started seeing the spots. "I added a calcium supplement a few days ago and these spots on the leaves have gotten worse" <---- You said that in post #3, that's why I though this.

i didn't add anymore,i took it all out.i didn't see any mites and like i said there is 1 plant that don't look like the rest.i do appreciate the help and advice Again, what you said in post #3 is why I said this.

I don't know what "K" means you will have to tell me that
K is the element Potassium. One of the big 3 nutrients labeled on every fert. N-P-K. Nitrogen - Phosphorus - Potassium






You've changed to PH'd water. Read up as fast as you can on root slime and getting rid of it while you're observing the plants. Look at the pictures of spider mites and their eggs, making sure the white spots aren't eggs.

And...

Do you have a reservoir?
If so what size.
What color (if any) was the slime?
This could tie into the slimy roots (and be your problem), what's your water temp in the buckets?
What Calcium supplement did you use?
 
The slime is clear and brownish.The buckets,lids and baskets are black,The tubing is a medium blue.The water level tube is open at the top, that is the only source of exposure to light. If I was going to use the H2O2,How much would I put in per gal of water?
I used the Dyna-Gro because I used it back in the day It worked back then so I thought I should use it now.So I may have made a mistake going with that.
I don't have a reservoir.The water in the buckets is around 74 degrees.
The calcium supplement I used is called CALiMAGic cal & mag 1-0-0
I still suspect that there are mites,but my partner says no he doesn't see anything moving.We use a magnifying glass.I don't see anything moving but I do see some black spots on the center stem that goes thur the leaf on the back side of it.
Yes I did say " I added a calcium supplement a few days ago and the spots got worse " I only added it once.
i didn't add anymore,i took it all out.i didn't see any mites and like i said there is 1 plant that don't look like the rest.i do appreciate the help and advice Again, what you said in post #3 is why I said this
I need your help that is why I am bringing up this last paragragh,I want you to understand what I am saying.What did you think I was saying in the paragragh before this one?

I found out today that my air pump has a filter on the bottom of it. It was pretty clogged so I cleaned it.Sure that was some of the problem.I want to run some H2O2 thur my system and clean it real good.Do you know about something caller slica.It's suppose to make the plant stronger.Do you think I should use it?
Thank-You for all your help and advice.Here is a pic of what the slime looks like.Thanks again man.
 
silica is nice. I use it. recommended. but yeaaa... you need to consider and check how high your PPM will be with the additional supplement.

Why do you have slime my friend? You need a better air pump. I should have gotten the slime but I avoided it but keeping my DO at max

Vlad
 
silica is nice. I use it. recommended. but yeaaa... you need to consider and check how high your PPM will be with the additional supplement.

Why do you have slime my friend? You need a better air pump. I should have gotten the slime but I avoided it but keeping my DO at max

Vlad

I'm new with the DWC system so I didn't know there was a filter on the bottom of the pump.It was pretty clogged so I cleaned it. I don't know what else could be wrong. Still working on it.And I will get a ppm meter here shortly.Thank for the advice:thanks::thumb::thanks:
 
Forget I mentioned H2O2. You might want to get something like Hydroguard, Voodoo Juice or Great White. Hydroguard being the most affordable. Hydro stores should carry something, or Amazon sells it too. They ad beneficial bacteria that help fight root related diseases. If your roots and slime look brown you've got root rot. You need to increase the dissolved oxygen in your buckets, maybe lower the temp too. Think I would clean each bucket with a chlorine or bleach solution, replace the air stones and give each bucket more air.

The damaged roots will not heal. You will need to watch for new white growth to know when they start recovering. Hopefully they do recover. If you can upload a pic of the roots that would help.


Edit: I had just misunderstood the timeline of events is all. When you noticed the problem first, when and how much/often you added the cal/mag. Moot point and water under the bridge. If your telling me your roots and slime are brown, then your nutes and cal/mag are not the problem.

All good :thumb:
 
Forget I mentioned H2O2. You might want to get something like Hydroguard, Voodoo Juice or Great White. Hydroguard being the most affordable. Hydro stores should carry something, or Amazon sells it too. They ad beneficial bacteria that help fight root related diseases. If your roots and slime look brown you've got root rot. You need to increase the dissolved oxygen in your buckets, maybe lower the temp too. Think I would clean each bucket with a chlorine or bleach solution, replace the air stones and give each bucket more air.

The damaged roots will not heal. You will need to watch for new white growth to know when they start recovering. Hopefully they do recover. If you can upload a pic of the roots that would help.


Edit: I had just misunderstood the timeline of events is all. When you noticed the problem first, when and how much/often you added the cal/mag. Moot point and water under the bridge. If your telling me your roots and slime are brown, then your nutes and cal/mag are not the problem.

All good :thumb:
Here is a pic of the roots and the slime.All the roots do not have the slime on them,just where the brown spots are.The inside of the buckets didn't have the slime in them either.I just found it on the air line inside the buckets and a little bit on the roots.It's started a few weeks ago. How long would it take to kill the plants if it is root rot? Thanks again for the help.
SLIME_AND_SICK_004.JPG
roots101.jpg

I'm going to follow your advice,just want to know how long it woul take to kill them
 
Ick! It looks like you hocked lung butter.

Time till death really varies by the pheno of the plant (natural resistance + ovarall heath) as well as enviro conditions. Days to weeks.


The roots actually look pretty good. Gently rinse them in PH'd water and some of the hyrdoguard (or what ever). Get as much of the junk off as possible. I imagined a brown mess all over with dying roots. Looks it doesn't have the upper hand and like the plant should spring back.

Clean the roots in another bucket or even two.
Clean the DWC bucket and lines etc. Everything.
Add more air! Bigger pump(s), more stones, whatever it takes to get a good convection (like a rolling boil) going in the DWC buckets.
Put the girl back in with the slightly reduced strength basic nutes.
Talk to them and tell them every thing's going to be alright. No really. Do it.


:thumb:
 
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