knighthawktfc
New Member
Soil Grow - First ever grow.
What Strain is it?
CKS White Widow Auto Fem. (primary plant in question)
CKS Candy Cane Auto Fem. (also in tent)
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?
60%-I/30%-S/10%-R
How Many Plants?
2 but problem is 85% with only the White Widow.
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage?
Auto, Veg phase.
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long?
16 days from sprout.
Indoor or Outdoor?
Indoor grow tent 2'x4'x6'
Soil or Hydro?
Soil
If Soil... What is in your Mix?
70% Fox Farms Ocean Forest
15% Fox Farms Happy Frog
15% Miracle Grow Perlite.
+ additional thin layer of perlitle above say 2 dozen 1.25"rocks at bottom of pots to cover large 1" holes from leaking dirt.
If Soil... What Size Pot?
5 Gallon plastic pots with 20 or so extra 1/4" holes drilled in bottom and up about an inch on the sides.
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many?
1 600wLED (320 from wall) main light , k-3.
4 24w(12 from wall) side\corner lights. (added around day 12 after problem was already apparent)
Is it Air Cooled?
The tent is cooled by ~75% 4" filtered intake pushing air in, and ~25% passive intake from exterior room cooled via a\c via other vents
Temperature of Room/Cabinet?
72f-77f outer room; 71f-82f inside the tent. avg 75-79f under the lights around plant height.
Leaves measured with laser in last couple or so days never measured higher than 76f, nor temp gauge also around plant heigh ever read more than 81 in last week.
First couple days of grow tent saw max temp of 86f (84f under the lights), while I dialed in airflow, ac, venting and everything else. Has been relatively stable since then 82 max or less.
RH of Room/Cabinet?
About 40% outside the room and varies between 45% and 65% in the tent.. usually avg around 55%.
First couple days 0-5 it was never higher than 50ish; I then added humidifer been staying in 40-65% range since, prior to that was 35-50 range.
PH of Medium or Reservoir?
In question:
-Soil runoff test during initial wetting of the pots: 6.7-6.8 (with untouched distilled water)
-Soil runoff test during first FULL watering of the pots: (tail end) 5.4-5.6 (distilled ph'd to 6.5 in)
-Soil runoff test during second full water of the pots (tail end) 5.4.-5.7 (distilled ph'd to 6.7 in)
-Testing some extra left over original mix had still in garage via 1/4th cup soil mix and 1/4th cup distilled water = ~6.6
-PH Testing has been at nearly every measurement ever discussed has been both via droplet sampling and Digital pen. ( Paranoia\sanity checks on my part)
Any Pests:
Not that I know of, just got scope today so will be checking this morning.
How Often are you Watering?
Days 0: initial soak of pots. (then planted seeds)
Days0-4: The top soil got a very very light misting inside humidity cover circle I had over the sprouts.
Day 6: 50ml each with in 3" of the sprout. (top soil down to 2" was very dry)
Day 9: Full soak of about 1400-1600ml of ph 6.5-6.6 distilled water with 1/8th technaflora magi-cal cal\mag, and 1/12th technaflora sugardaddy and technaflora root-66.
Day 15: Full soak of about 1600ml each with about 400ml run off each. distilled water only ph'd to 6.7-6.8: ppm-in:2
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used?
Technoflora Line (Recipe for success schedule) Why? Came bundled with tent.
Transplant\seedling stage: SugarDaddy 10ml per gallon; root 66 10ml per gallon. (I used ~1.25ml per gallon)
Veg stage: (which I've not fed them yet) BC boost,BC grow,Thrive Alive B-1 red, Magi-Cal,Sugar Daddy.
In theory I would have fed them the Veg stage on day-15, but with problems and weird runoff figures decided to wait. Schedule calls for 15ml,7.5ml,2.5ml,2.5ml, and 10ml respectively of those listed. Again I have not yet fed them this. I do note that this 'schedule' is less then what's on most of the bottles themselves in most cases.
Bloom stage: I can give this too you if needed, but we're not there yet.
The problem\symptoms (or what I think is problem):
Under Led's shots taken through my led-glasses:
Shots under semi normal light (flash was used - I can maybe get better pics if needed without it):
Sudden Brown\burn Spot?? Could that just be from water droplet under lights for few hours?
History of things I've done
First off I should say that the Candy Cane 1ft away from the White widow showed some of these signs early on but as since seem to get much better to the point for now I'm only concerned with the WW who has not improved least not much.
I first thought this was wind-burn:
In days 0-5 I had a fan in the lower part of the tent that even on low was pretty powerful and was infact blowing on my girls. After getting temps dialed in I re-positioned the fan lower such that it was not blowing at pot height but inches below it. This didn't seem to help too much, so I lowered fan more (fan was to help passive intake) and to basically point at the floor. This appeared to help the CC a little bit, not the closer WW.
Going down this rabbit hole further I wondered about too much negative pressure maybe, and adjusted my exhaust and setup and in-line fan outside the tent to push filtered air inside via ducting and give me more
directional control of air, and to have it come in and disperse mostly a floor level.
After observed this newer setup did reduce the negative pressure a bit and for whatever reason I was actually getting an 1f-2f avg temp drop around plant height (79avg to 77 avg). I have left this setup alone for about a week now.
CC started to show less signs, WW remain largely unchanged though lower leaf tip edges themselves were less curled inward now. So my assessment is that maybe early on this was a factor... but not the main factor.
Heat\Light Stress:
The main 600w led started out at ~40" for the first couple days, then over a couple days I lowered it slowly every 12-18hr or so a 2-4 inches at a time to 22" from pot tops, and then up a little to 24".
Then as the WW got to the top of the pot I moved them up a few inches, 1" a day the last couple days. In the last 48hr they have been around 28-29" from WW's PLANT tops, no change ...other than WW has been in my untrained eye adding height more than usual to stretch toward light.
MFG of light says during veg 18-26" is recommended, but never closer than 14".
"Hand testing" the light confirms 14-15" would be uncomfortable, that 18-20" seems warm but fine, and above that seems more than ok to my rookie hand. Laser temp checking confirms at least heat wise the plant leaves never get above 76d, the black pots around the lower part of the pots are a fairly constant 78-80d with the lights on.
The low wattage side lighting is about 23-26" away from the plant, the variance has to do with what way the pots happened to be turned. I've been rotating my pots about 45degrees every so often, but at least once per day since around day 5.
I have a hard time believing I have to keep my light above the recommended range... but maybe so?? I mean I thought I wasn't even being as aggressive as I should be with doing 24-25" ish (before last couple days of going higher).
Bugs:
Looking around at pics tells me maybe signs of Broad mites even though I doubt it, I bought a 60-100x scope to check that out today, I will get back to this post about that afterward, I doubt it...but you never know.
Nute Deficiencies or Toxicity:
Totally possible. But I'm a rookie and don't know all the signs, and I've tried to do my home work looking at all the charts and comparison pictures but frankly nothing seems to match perfectly to my very very untrained eye. Also my run-off being so low (5.5'ish) on both plants scares the hell out of me but I don't know how much to read into that, I know I'm putting ~6.5 in, and damn well know the soil started out around 6.5, even went back and tested left over soil mix. I would also think that the CC plant right next to her who has had the exact same treatment,soil, and water would be showing similar signs... and maybe she is but not just as much yet, I would say though she only shows 10-15% of what the WW shows.
Over watering:
I mean...maybe but I kind of doubt it but what do I know. Initial pot soak, little dome misting, day 9 soak, day 15 soak.
That said it's possible I have drainage issues. I have to say it takes FOREVER to get full run off.
For example on Day 15, after I got run off from slowly adding water and waiting 15-20min and then doing more... and it came and eventually it seemed to finally stop, as a test I fed each 200ml more of water at about 1:05pm, I wanted see how long till it stopped dripping..and how much I got out being they were already soaked. I figured it should all come out in about ~15min tops.
Most of it 150ml was out by 1:35pm, but at 1:45pm (lights out) it was sill putting out occasional drips. ~50ml was there for each about 5-6hr later when the lights came back on. So I'd say it take about 45min at least for my pots to fully drain. That's bad right? BTW the ph on that last 50ml for both was 0.1ph higher than original tail end.
Under watering:
Maybe.. but 'finger' test of first 1" or two is more what I been going by, maybe my "moist" is other peoples 'little damp'? Hydrometers that I have I don't trust much but they always say 'upper part of dry' down to about 1-3" when I know damn well it's moist(except after soak then say moist and not wet), I don't think they're good at reading loose soil at the top. Seem to be more accurate the lower you go. That said I tend to doubt WW and CC would have that wildly different reaction to slight lack of water difference.
Other factors about WW:
-She sits closer to humidifier which blows atomized stream about a foot off to her right that then gets blown around such that she does in theory get more of it around her than the CC does.
-She had about 100ml more runoff total of the same input water both got on day 15.
-She sits closer to more air intake\both passive and otherwise.
-Originally prior to day 15 the 'extra' holes I put in the pots were 3/16", I widened them all to 1/4" on day 15.
Environment overview pics: (White Widow is on the right, Candy Cane left)
Top down,right side then left.
Couple of the Candy Cane for Comparison:
Ok so I know that was a lot of info, sorry if I wasted anyone time, but figured better to provide too much than too little.
So my main question of course is, do I have problem, and what do you think the cause might be, or am I such a noobie that I'm wasting all this time being too paranoid and 'reacting' all while chasing ghosts?
If by chance I don't have a problem, I should move the lights back down a couple inches right?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also any info or pics you want just ask, if I don't already have them uploaded I'll get you some new ones. Also if you want to be put to sleep even more you can check out daily details and pics in my journal, the above is just a quick recap version.
What Strain is it?
CKS White Widow Auto Fem. (primary plant in question)
CKS Candy Cane Auto Fem. (also in tent)
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?
60%-I/30%-S/10%-R
How Many Plants?
2 but problem is 85% with only the White Widow.
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage?
Auto, Veg phase.
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long?
16 days from sprout.
Indoor or Outdoor?
Indoor grow tent 2'x4'x6'
Soil or Hydro?
Soil
If Soil... What is in your Mix?
70% Fox Farms Ocean Forest
15% Fox Farms Happy Frog
15% Miracle Grow Perlite.
+ additional thin layer of perlitle above say 2 dozen 1.25"rocks at bottom of pots to cover large 1" holes from leaking dirt.
If Soil... What Size Pot?
5 Gallon plastic pots with 20 or so extra 1/4" holes drilled in bottom and up about an inch on the sides.
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many?
1 600wLED (320 from wall) main light , k-3.
4 24w(12 from wall) side\corner lights. (added around day 12 after problem was already apparent)
Is it Air Cooled?
The tent is cooled by ~75% 4" filtered intake pushing air in, and ~25% passive intake from exterior room cooled via a\c via other vents
Temperature of Room/Cabinet?
72f-77f outer room; 71f-82f inside the tent. avg 75-79f under the lights around plant height.
Leaves measured with laser in last couple or so days never measured higher than 76f, nor temp gauge also around plant heigh ever read more than 81 in last week.
First couple days of grow tent saw max temp of 86f (84f under the lights), while I dialed in airflow, ac, venting and everything else. Has been relatively stable since then 82 max or less.
RH of Room/Cabinet?
About 40% outside the room and varies between 45% and 65% in the tent.. usually avg around 55%.
First couple days 0-5 it was never higher than 50ish; I then added humidifer been staying in 40-65% range since, prior to that was 35-50 range.
PH of Medium or Reservoir?
In question:
-Soil runoff test during initial wetting of the pots: 6.7-6.8 (with untouched distilled water)
-Soil runoff test during first FULL watering of the pots: (tail end) 5.4-5.6 (distilled ph'd to 6.5 in)
-Soil runoff test during second full water of the pots (tail end) 5.4.-5.7 (distilled ph'd to 6.7 in)
-Testing some extra left over original mix had still in garage via 1/4th cup soil mix and 1/4th cup distilled water = ~6.6
-PH Testing has been at nearly every measurement ever discussed has been both via droplet sampling and Digital pen. ( Paranoia\sanity checks on my part)
Any Pests:
Not that I know of, just got scope today so will be checking this morning.
How Often are you Watering?
Days 0: initial soak of pots. (then planted seeds)
Days0-4: The top soil got a very very light misting inside humidity cover circle I had over the sprouts.
Day 6: 50ml each with in 3" of the sprout. (top soil down to 2" was very dry)
Day 9: Full soak of about 1400-1600ml of ph 6.5-6.6 distilled water with 1/8th technaflora magi-cal cal\mag, and 1/12th technaflora sugardaddy and technaflora root-66.
Day 15: Full soak of about 1600ml each with about 400ml run off each. distilled water only ph'd to 6.7-6.8: ppm-in:2
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used?
Technoflora Line (Recipe for success schedule) Why? Came bundled with tent.
Transplant\seedling stage: SugarDaddy 10ml per gallon; root 66 10ml per gallon. (I used ~1.25ml per gallon)
Veg stage: (which I've not fed them yet) BC boost,BC grow,Thrive Alive B-1 red, Magi-Cal,Sugar Daddy.
In theory I would have fed them the Veg stage on day-15, but with problems and weird runoff figures decided to wait. Schedule calls for 15ml,7.5ml,2.5ml,2.5ml, and 10ml respectively of those listed. Again I have not yet fed them this. I do note that this 'schedule' is less then what's on most of the bottles themselves in most cases.
Bloom stage: I can give this too you if needed, but we're not there yet.
The problem\symptoms (or what I think is problem):
- Canoeing\taco'ing inward with outer part of leaves drooping downward. (been this way since early on)
- Dark green leaves, Darker than I would expect. (Been this way since start)
- Little bit of wrinkled leaves or twisted leaves (been that way since start)
- Ever so slight lighter green between veins and tips started (last 2-3 days)
- Semi-waxy appearance in natural light.
- One brown spot - this just appeared the day after watering (don't know if I let a drop of water get on her or it a sign of other things)
- Leaves feel bit brittle, in fact I cracked one while trying to handle it to scope it.
Under Led's shots taken through my led-glasses:
Shots under semi normal light (flash was used - I can maybe get better pics if needed without it):
Sudden Brown\burn Spot?? Could that just be from water droplet under lights for few hours?
History of things I've done
First off I should say that the Candy Cane 1ft away from the White widow showed some of these signs early on but as since seem to get much better to the point for now I'm only concerned with the WW who has not improved least not much.
I first thought this was wind-burn:
In days 0-5 I had a fan in the lower part of the tent that even on low was pretty powerful and was infact blowing on my girls. After getting temps dialed in I re-positioned the fan lower such that it was not blowing at pot height but inches below it. This didn't seem to help too much, so I lowered fan more (fan was to help passive intake) and to basically point at the floor. This appeared to help the CC a little bit, not the closer WW.
Going down this rabbit hole further I wondered about too much negative pressure maybe, and adjusted my exhaust and setup and in-line fan outside the tent to push filtered air inside via ducting and give me more
directional control of air, and to have it come in and disperse mostly a floor level.
After observed this newer setup did reduce the negative pressure a bit and for whatever reason I was actually getting an 1f-2f avg temp drop around plant height (79avg to 77 avg). I have left this setup alone for about a week now.
CC started to show less signs, WW remain largely unchanged though lower leaf tip edges themselves were less curled inward now. So my assessment is that maybe early on this was a factor... but not the main factor.
Heat\Light Stress:
The main 600w led started out at ~40" for the first couple days, then over a couple days I lowered it slowly every 12-18hr or so a 2-4 inches at a time to 22" from pot tops, and then up a little to 24".
Then as the WW got to the top of the pot I moved them up a few inches, 1" a day the last couple days. In the last 48hr they have been around 28-29" from WW's PLANT tops, no change ...other than WW has been in my untrained eye adding height more than usual to stretch toward light.
MFG of light says during veg 18-26" is recommended, but never closer than 14".
"Hand testing" the light confirms 14-15" would be uncomfortable, that 18-20" seems warm but fine, and above that seems more than ok to my rookie hand. Laser temp checking confirms at least heat wise the plant leaves never get above 76d, the black pots around the lower part of the pots are a fairly constant 78-80d with the lights on.
The low wattage side lighting is about 23-26" away from the plant, the variance has to do with what way the pots happened to be turned. I've been rotating my pots about 45degrees every so often, but at least once per day since around day 5.
I have a hard time believing I have to keep my light above the recommended range... but maybe so?? I mean I thought I wasn't even being as aggressive as I should be with doing 24-25" ish (before last couple days of going higher).
Bugs:
Looking around at pics tells me maybe signs of Broad mites even though I doubt it, I bought a 60-100x scope to check that out today, I will get back to this post about that afterward, I doubt it...but you never know.
Nute Deficiencies or Toxicity:
Totally possible. But I'm a rookie and don't know all the signs, and I've tried to do my home work looking at all the charts and comparison pictures but frankly nothing seems to match perfectly to my very very untrained eye. Also my run-off being so low (5.5'ish) on both plants scares the hell out of me but I don't know how much to read into that, I know I'm putting ~6.5 in, and damn well know the soil started out around 6.5, even went back and tested left over soil mix. I would also think that the CC plant right next to her who has had the exact same treatment,soil, and water would be showing similar signs... and maybe she is but not just as much yet, I would say though she only shows 10-15% of what the WW shows.
Over watering:
I mean...maybe but I kind of doubt it but what do I know. Initial pot soak, little dome misting, day 9 soak, day 15 soak.
That said it's possible I have drainage issues. I have to say it takes FOREVER to get full run off.
For example on Day 15, after I got run off from slowly adding water and waiting 15-20min and then doing more... and it came and eventually it seemed to finally stop, as a test I fed each 200ml more of water at about 1:05pm, I wanted see how long till it stopped dripping..and how much I got out being they were already soaked. I figured it should all come out in about ~15min tops.
Most of it 150ml was out by 1:35pm, but at 1:45pm (lights out) it was sill putting out occasional drips. ~50ml was there for each about 5-6hr later when the lights came back on. So I'd say it take about 45min at least for my pots to fully drain. That's bad right? BTW the ph on that last 50ml for both was 0.1ph higher than original tail end.
Under watering:
Maybe.. but 'finger' test of first 1" or two is more what I been going by, maybe my "moist" is other peoples 'little damp'? Hydrometers that I have I don't trust much but they always say 'upper part of dry' down to about 1-3" when I know damn well it's moist(except after soak then say moist and not wet), I don't think they're good at reading loose soil at the top. Seem to be more accurate the lower you go. That said I tend to doubt WW and CC would have that wildly different reaction to slight lack of water difference.
Other factors about WW:
-She sits closer to humidifier which blows atomized stream about a foot off to her right that then gets blown around such that she does in theory get more of it around her than the CC does.
-She had about 100ml more runoff total of the same input water both got on day 15.
-She sits closer to more air intake\both passive and otherwise.
-Originally prior to day 15 the 'extra' holes I put in the pots were 3/16", I widened them all to 1/4" on day 15.
Environment overview pics: (White Widow is on the right, Candy Cane left)
Top down,right side then left.
Couple of the Candy Cane for Comparison:
Ok so I know that was a lot of info, sorry if I wasted anyone time, but figured better to provide too much than too little.
So my main question of course is, do I have problem, and what do you think the cause might be, or am I such a noobie that I'm wasting all this time being too paranoid and 'reacting' all while chasing ghosts?
If by chance I don't have a problem, I should move the lights back down a couple inches right?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also any info or pics you want just ask, if I don't already have them uploaded I'll get you some new ones. Also if you want to be put to sleep even more you can check out daily details and pics in my journal, the above is just a quick recap version.
