I'm about to buy LED lights, help me choose ~$700

[StormChaos]

LEDs are the wave of the future. They work -- there is no debate about that. If you have any doubt, do what I did -- research. Search these forums, you'll find the evidence yourself. PitViper's 600 watt LED grow is a perfect example -- his results are undeniable...

First off... The only undeniable thing about PitVipers results - which you so gleefully point to as the perfect example to support your position is that they are NON EXISTENT - he has yet to get any results. (No disrespect to PitViper - I respect Viper's opinions and his ability as a grower and look forward to his LED grow)

I am not going to debate HPS vs LED. We all know that people on both sides of the light beam tend to be passionate about their position.... and threads can deteriorate rapidly... I don't wish for that to happen here.

I will say this though.... While in theory LED is supposed to be the better light, its just not there yet. And while admittedly - yes, HPS does have some wasted light... watt for watt - HID still achieves better results.

I have yet to see ONE single thread where LED out performs HID. If you can show me one I would love to see it...

 

[Dacob]

First off... The only undeniable thing about PitVipers results - which you so gleefully point to as the perfect example to support your position is that they are NON EXISTENT - he has yet to get any results. (No disrespect to PitViper - I respect Viper's opinions and his ability as a grower and look forward to his LED grow)

I am not going to debate HPS vs LED. We all know that people on both sides of the light beam tend to be passionate about their position.... and threads can deteriorate rapidly... I don't wish for that to happen here.

I will say this though.... While in theory LED is supposed to be the better light, its just not there yet. And while admittedly - yes, HPS does have some wasted light... watt for watt - HID still achieves better results.

I have yet to see ONE single thread where LED out performs HID. If you can show me one I would love to see it...

Wow.

OK, I'll go away now, sorry...

Did not mean to step on anyone's toes.

 

[StormChaos]

Wow.

OK, I'll go away now, sorry...

Did not mean to step on anyone's toes.

Sorry Bro. That sounded alot harsher than intended. My apologies. I didn't mean to come off so jerky.

 

[PitViper]

First off... The only undeniable thing about PitVipers results - which you so gleefully point to as the perfect example to support your position is that they are NON EXISTENT - he has yet to get any results. (No disrespect to PitViper - I respect Viper's opinions and his ability as a grower and look forward to his LED grow)

I am not going to debate HPS vs LED. We all know that people on both sides of the light beam tend to be passionate about their position.... and threads can deteriorate rapidly... I don't wish for that to happen here.

I will say this though.... While in theory LED is supposed to be the better light, its just not there yet. And while admittedly - yes, HPS does have some wasted light... watt for watt - HID still achieves better results.

I have yet to see ONE single thread where LED out performs HID. If you can show me one I would love to see it...

slow your roll bro.....first I never said it would out perform HID.
that being said...there is undeniable proof that LEDS will bloom and perform well. obviously you havent seen the threads...Setting Sun,irishboy. I know and trust these people. I already know they work...in the right situation.
if you know me you will already know that I was a staunch supporter of HID...and still am however in the right environment...tents,,closets etc..you wont need a big footprint..Im going to use it in a 3x5 closet...2x4 tray. that thing will rock in that environment.

 

[The Weed]

The Great 'Setting Sun' will soon be doing a Grow Involving,

GrowLEDHydro's 300 watt vs. 400 watt HPS

 

[SanibelGreen]

The LED's pay for themselves in you electric bill, you can easily save over one grand a year in electric costs. In my opinion that is worth every penny. LED's are just about the investment then they start immediately repaying you. Thats my two cents.

SG

 

[StormChaos]

slow your roll bro.....first I never said it would out perform HID.
that being said...there is undeniable proof that LEDS will bloom and perform well. obviously you haven't seen the threads...Setting Sun,irishboy. I know and trust these people. I already know they work...in the right situation.
if you know me you will already know that I was a staunch supporter of HID...and still am however in the right environment...tents,,closets etc..you wont need a big footprint..Im going to use it in a 3x5 closet...2x4 tray. that thing will rock in that environment.

PitViper, my admittedly overly excited reply was specifically in response to Dacob pointing to a specific journal (yours) reporting false results to bolster his position. My response in no way was attempting to reflect your actual position on any subject.

After posting my response, only then did I notice Dacob had made a simple error of confusing your grow with IrishBoys... unfortunately by then Dacob had already posted to me, so I was unable to retract my words and only offer up an apology for being so harsh.

I am not totally against LED - I think the technology has a come a long way but still has a while to go. It definitely has some advantages in the right environment.

I have never said that LED doesn't work... Just watt for watt - HID out performs LED. And that when it comes to flowering - in my opinion LED fails compared to HPS's success - based on grams/watt as the quantifiable results.

I am not afraid of changing from HID to LED or to Sulphur Plasma... I look forward to the day we employ better technology that consistently produces better results - that day is hopefully around the corner, its just not here yet in my opinion.

 

[PitViper]

PitViper, my admittedly overly excited reply was specifically in response to Dacob pointing to a specific journal (yours) reporting false results to bolster his position. My response in no way was attempting to reflect your actual position on any subject.

After posting my response, only then did I notice Dacob had made a simple error of confusing your grow with IrishBoys... unfortunately by then Dacob had already posted to me, so I was unable to retract my words and only offer up an apology for being so harsh.

I am not totally against LED - I think the technology has a come a long way but still has a while to go. It definitely has some advantages in the right environment.

I have never said that LED doesn't work... Just watt for watt - HID out performs LED. And that when it comes to flowering - in my opinion LED fails compared to HPS's success - based on grams/watt as the quantifiable results.

I am not afraid of changing from HID to LED or to Sulphur Plasma... I look forward to the day we employ better technology that consistently produces better results - that day is hopefully around the corner, its just not here yet in my opinion.

its all I good....we are good....live long and prosper....lol

 

[StormChaos]

The LED's pay for themselves in you electric bill, you can easily save over one grand a year in electric costs. In my opinion that is worth every penny. LED's are just about the investment then they start immediately repaying you. Thats my two cents.

SG

I disagree.... that is just marketing hype the LED companies are spewing. You don't get the results they claim... you can not replace a 600wat hid with 180w LED or even a 300w LED. As a matter of fact, even if you used 600w of LED VS 600w of HPS - HPS would produce more. SO right there is a loss using LED.

Insofar as a savings based on less heat generation... that is purely subjective based on the actual location of the grow - perhaps in small closet grow growing a couple of plants.... there could be some benefit and savings... where a carbon filter and inline fan can be eliminated and the use of an ozone generator or odor eaters could be employed.... but that is about the only advantage I see and it doesnt amount to thousands of dollars a year - you loose using LED by not yielding as much.

In my grow... I rely on a carbon filter to control odor. I use this filter 24/7 with a large can fan and a large carbon filter - this odor control system doubles as a heat reduction for my lighting source in the summer...

Changing my lights to LED would have 0 impact on my electrical consumption....

 

[Dacob]

Sorry Bro. That sounded alot harsher than intended. My apologies. I didn't mean to come off so jerky.

Hehe OK, got it my mistake then StormChaos -- when I read your response I thought I'd broken some unwritten 420 Mag forum rule or something so I figured I'd better back off so as to not offend anyone.

In truth, I really try not to ever put forth a definitive statement of fact, even on subjects I feel I know pretty well. But I guess I can be persuasive at time and it may seem like I'm trying to imply more than I am. If I do so, I sincerely apologize as I assure you, it's not my intent.

I'll be more careful in the future to vet my posts not just for misspellings but for silly errors like getting PitViper and IrishBoy's work confused -- it was just a silly error because I was... well... medicated just a weeeee little bit...



Anyway, just to clarify, what I was trying to say specifically is that if I had only $700 to spend on lights I personally would go with LEDs because of the lower electrical consumption and longer life time of the unit. Because of the way the thread originator posed his question, it seemed clear he was looking for a small grow at home which is a situation that I feel is well suited to the application of LEDs versus using a GD lamp. While I have no idea if the units I'm using now (which are rated for 50K hours) will actually run that long, other LEDs I've used have served me well for years with no problems.

Because LEDs are solid-state components I don't see any compelling reason to doubt the manufacture's claims as to the product's useful lifetime. But the absence of a negative does not prove the existence of its inverse, so if you know of reports of LEDs failing please do let me know as I would be very interested to read about that. I did quite a bit of research into the current state of LED technology before I moved forward and I really found the information to be very interesting and compelling. That's why I find myself now being a pretty staunch supporter of the idea that LEDs will eventually be a very economical way to light a garden.

That being said, I agree wholeheartedly that LEDs are still in their absolute infancy and much more needs to be done to improve them. I also agree completely that the currently available GD lamps will produce fantastic results. I would never counsel a larger grower to use LEDs, as they are not yet suited to that type of application, in my personal opinion.

However, if yield is not the primary factor in your plans -- and yes, I know that seems antithesis to what most people would want, then for me personally I think LEDs are already a viable option, not a gimmick or a "fad" product.

My results have been very impressive but it has become clear that I can't expect to see comparable results as I might have expected if I'd decided to use a MH or HPS system instead. However, the reduced heat, simplicity of design, safety (I like to go away for the weekend, and I need to be sure there is not a fire when I'm gone) and lastly, the reports that cannabis seems to produce resin more effectively under LEDs (for unknown reasons) were what finally made me conclude that I wanted to back LEDs, both by using and testing them myself and also by talking to others to let them know that I feel that LEDs are a viable option to using the traditional GD lamps we are all used to.

That being said, trying to compare yields from a GD system and an LED system, in my opinion, is a little like trying to compare apples to oranges. While you can correct for all other variables by using identical clones, soil, etc... the lights are not really the same. GD lamps do not work in the same manner as LEDs, and the emission spectrum from a GD lamp is not at all similar to the emissions from tuned LED lights.

Now, as to your assertion that GD lamps will produce larger yields — the funny part here is that... I agree! I know how effective they are. That really never was the issue, at least in my mind, but I agree 100% that it has to be a very important consideration. If maximum yields are most important and the grower has the resources to cover the electricity, why not invest in a set of 1000 watt lamps? The cooling costs and additional fans, ducting, etc... certainly do represent a not insignificant additional cost, and of course replacement lamps at $100 or more each, every six months, has to be considered. But with the amazing amount of lumens those lamps can put out, one would be hard pressed to argue against their overall effectiveness and utility. The fact that their use is so very prevalent today is all the testament needed to verify they are, indeed, the de facto standard at the moment.



Anyway, it seems I've penned a mini-dissertation when I meant only to clarify my personal position on the subject, so please accept my apologies for being so verbose.

 

[MysticMars88]

thats not bad per ufo. they do work well. i have 2 ufos over 5 1 ft tall plants. buds are 4 weeks old and 2 inch thick. ya its only 540w but the electricity bill will be low and you will have a decent amount of bud. i'd just have 1 light per plant and you'll be good.. also depends on your grow agenda. personal or for sale.. check out my pics l.e.d ufos work

 

[StormChaos]

I'll be more careful in the future to vet my posts not just for misspellings but for silly errors like getting PitViper and IrishBoy's work confused -- it was just a silly error because I was... well... medicated just a weeeee little bit...

I can appreciate that... my over reaction and irritation was due in part to ME NOT being Medicated because my wife was allowing our 16 year daughter to not merely have a party, but a friggen slumber party... there is nothing like a bunch of girls running around in PJ's all night to brighten up my mood LOL

Anyway, just to clarify, what I was trying to say specifically is that if I had only $700 to spend on lights I personally would go with LEDs because of the lower electrical consumption and longer life time of the unit.

Here is the thing... if your comparing 600w LED to 600w HID where is the electrical usage savings???

Because of the way the thread originator posed his question, it seemed clear he was looking for a small grow at home which is a situation that I feel is well suited to the application of LEDs versus using a GD lamp.

That is debateable... arguably the only time LEDs have any advantage is if and only if in my opinion there is a small grow that CO2 is not being used and ODOR Control is not an issue.

Because if odor control is an issue - properly sized or overly sized carbon filter/in-line fan are arguably the most versatile weapons in our choices of tools they control Odor + are able to cool lamps and control heat + are able to allow for passive air exchange.

While I have no idea if the units I'm using now (which are rated for 50K hours) will actually run that long, other LEDs I've used have served me well for years with no problems.

Because LEDs are solid-state components I don't see any compelling reason to doubt the manufacturer's claims as to the product's useful lifetime. But the absence of a negative does not prove the existence of its inverse, so if you know of reports of LEDs failing please do let me know as I would be very interested to read about that. I did quite a bit of research into the current state of LED technology before I moved forward and I really found the information to be very interesting and compelling. That's why I find myself now being a pretty staunch supporter of the idea that LEDs will eventually be a very economical way to light a garden.

That being said, I agree wholeheartedly that LEDs are still in their absolute infancy and much more needs to be done to improve them. I also agree completely that the currently available GD lamps will produce fantastic results. I would never counsel a larger grower to use LEDs, as they are not yet suited to that type of application, in my personal opinion.

However, if yield is not the primary factor in your plans -- and yes, I know that seems antithesis to what most people would want, then for me personally I think LEDs are already a viable option, not a gimmick or a "fad" product.

Economical only in theory.... that you don't have the loss of lumens etc. and don't need to replace the bulb.... however this is so misleading... its like the propaganda the LED companies initially spewed making outrageous claims... 90w or 180w LED Replaces 400w HPS or 600hps... SAVE SAVE SAVE on electric... they were so effective in spewing that crap, that when people think of LED they automatically think.... SAVINGS. And in my opinion that is a load of guano... it couldn't be further from the truth.

My argument is simple.... I am more than happy to replace my bulbs every 6 months to a year - hell ill do it every harvest.... because the additional yield that I am seeing by using HID over LED more than Makes up for the cost of the bulbs...

and the Loss of yield LED people are seeing costs them more than they even realize or care to admit, because who wants to admit that spent hundreds or even thousands on a product that doesn't live up to what they claim.

My results have been very impressive but it has become clear that I can't expect to see comparable results as I might have expected if I'd decided to use a MH or HPS system instead. However, the reduced heat, simplicity of design, safety (I like to go away for the weekend, and I need to be sure there is not a fire when I'm gone) and lastly, the reports that cannabis seems to produce resin more effectively under LEDs (for unknown reasons) were what finally made me conclude that I wanted to back LEDs, both by using and testing them myself and also by talking to others to let them know that I feel that LEDs are a viable option to using the traditional GD lamps we are all used to.

You make my argument for me... you are a supporter of LED and acknowledge that LED doesn't yield as much.

Insofar as fire safety... if your electric is properly installed, and your equipment is properly maintained, than I suggest you have a much chance of a fire occurring running your LEDs as I do running my HIDs.

Insofar as resin production... my strains have awesome resin production and there are other methods to induce vigorous resin production - like 72 hours + of total darkness and shock ripening.

That being said, trying to compare yields from a GD system and an LED system, in my opinion, is a little like trying to compare apples to oranges. While you can correct for all other variables by using identical clones, soil, etc... the lights are not really the same. GD lamps do not work in the same manner as LEDs, and the emission spectrum from a GD lamp is not at all similar to the emissions from tuned LED lights.

Now, as to your assertion that GD lamps will produce larger yields — the funny part here is that... I agree! I know how effective they are. That really never was the issue, at least in my mind, but I agree 100% that it has to be a very important consideration. If maximum yields are most important and the grower has the resources to cover the electricity, why not invest in a set of 1000 watt lamps? The cooling costs and additional fans, ducting, etc... certainly do represent a not insignificant additional cost, and of course replacement lamps at $100 or more each, every six months, has to be considered. But with the amazing amount of lumens those lamps can put out, one would be hard pressed to argue against their overall effectiveness and utility. The fact that their use is so very prevalent today is all the testament needed to verify they are, indeed, the de facto standard at the moment.

Its all about yield.... YIELD = MONEY the only quantifiable measurement of success is g/w.

There is arguably no additional costs... for electricity... as a matter of fact in the winter months I can avoid having to heat the grow rooms because of the heat generated by my lamps.... there by saving me money....

Anyway, it seems I've penned a mini-dissertation when I meant only to clarify my personal position on the subject, so please accept my apologies for being so verbose.

me too... I had no choice but to respond.... and um... sorry again for biting your head off intially... lack of meds LOL and too many females.... no offense to the women of this site...

 

[IrishBoy]

when it comes to leds ive tested all different types and company's on leds. ive been using leds for over a year now, why you ask? to be honest i ask myself the same?lol. as far as ive seen with y own eyes most led company's make big BS claims. their is no way a 90w ufo will match a 400w hps. or 180w will match a 600w hps. leds at best might be able to match hid watt for watt. but imo opinion if your trying to grow on a large scale your better off growing with hid. bigger foot print for the money. now i am not saying leds wont flower good. i am proving that wrong right now with my newer led grow. will this light beat a 600w hps? well i dont know? i will find out soon when i harvest. BUT TO BE HONEST I DONT THINK LEDS ARE COST EFFECTIVE FOR LARGER SCALE GROWERS. i would have never bought these light if they weren't donated to me. i would have just stuck to hps. now for smaller scale growers that deal with heat on grow in little rooms then leds can help you big time. or someone that grows in a apartment that can run vent fans and all that good stuff then leds can help you. so i all comes down to your growing environment weather hid or led is better for you

the point is some leds arnt that bad as long as you use them right its a big learning cure. i think SOG is the best way to grow with leds. but if you do buy some leds DO YOUR HOMEWORK ON THE COMPANY!!! IF YOU BUY CHEAP ASS ONES ON EBAY THEN U WILL MOST LIKELY GET CHEAP ASS RESULTS.

 

[IrishBoy]

anyone ever try one of these?

yes i am right now

 

[SanibelGreen]

yes i am right now

Irish, you think that 205w Penetrator is worth it? Based on that 126?

SG

 

[IrishBoy]

Irish, you think that 205w Penetrator is worth it? Based on that 126?

SG

i dont. but she has changed the design since my older 126w. some seem to like her newer lights. i just caught her in tons of BS lies so i dont trust that company anymore. now i feel better that they changed their claims after i went rounds and rounds with her about how her 126w didnt = 400w hps and her 205w didnt =600w hps. thats why when she gave away free lights to test against hps she wouldn't put her 205w against a 600w hps only a 400w hps. she gave me some BS that the 600w hps had a bigger foot print so it would be far, well then how is it = to a 600w hps like you claim?

i really dont like her anymore so i am not the best person to ask. their are tons on grows on line with user using her 205w unit vs HPS. do a google search and you will find ur answer. just dont believe everything you read. allot of growers seem to be getting close to 1gpw with her lights so that real good. but dosent make it better then HID, because u can do the same with less money spent. i say stick with HGL or GLH, they seem to be the better led lights

 

[SanibelGreen]

Ya man I have been reading my ass off on that light and it looks promising I jus want more power for 700$ like this guy is looking for. jus wanted to know your thoughts, ty man, sry for the mini hijack.

SG

 

[IrishBoy]

Ya man I have been reading my ass off on that light and it looks promising I jus want more power for 700$ like this guy is looking for. jus wanted to know your thoughts, ty man, sry for the mini hijack.

SG

ya i here you for that price i can get a real nice 1000w hps setups fans and all. and out grow what that light can do by a mile. thats why if i bought a led light i would go with GLH because their light is around $400 or so and you get 250w of light and their 3w leds

 

[SanibelGreen]

I disagree.... that is just marketing hype the LED companies are spewing. You don't get the results they claim... you can not replace a 600wat hid with 180w LED or even a 300w LED. As a matter of fact, even if you used 600w of LED VS 600w of HPS - HPS would produce more. SO right there is a loss using LED.

Insofar as a savings based on less heat generation... that is purely subjective based on the actual location of the grow - perhaps in small closet grow growing a couple of plants.... there could be some benefit and savings... where a carbon filter and inline fan can be eliminated and the use of an ozone generator or odor eaters could be employed.... but that is about the only advantage I see and it doesnt amount to thousands of dollars a year - you loose using LED by not yielding as much.

In my grow... I rely on a carbon filter to control odor. I use this filter 24/7 with a large can fan and a large carbon filter - this odor control system doubles as a heat reduction for my lighting source in the summer...

Changing my lights to LED would have 0 impact on my electrical consumption....

I didnt see this quote, if you dont have LED's then dont knock them I save 50$ per month based on my friends 600w hps. They DO work however your right on replacement. I dont expect a 100 watt LED to do 600w hps work but as the bigger the LED's get they eventually will. I am just a fan of plug and play.

SG

 

[SanibelGreen]

ya i here you for that price i can get a real nice 1000w hps setups fans and all. and out grow what that light can do by a mile. thats why if i bought a led light i would go with GLH because their light is around $400 or so and you get 250w of light and their 3w leds

was thinking of 2 of those honestly, and at that point I think I may be hovering around 600 hps production but still beneath maybe

SG