Root rot? offwhite/brown roots spotted foilage

[todaystomale]

I am running a PVC Verticle ebb&flow w/ 2 1000 watt and 1 600.. it is the hydrogon from octagon hydrponics. Anyhow some of my plants have had trouble rooting while others have giant root masses. I got clones from one of the best dispensaries around. I vegged them for a week and a half and flipped them because i was fearing a mass problem (some of them really took off.. the space queens) .. im blabbering i know. so back to the point. The plants that are not rooting so well barely have roots visible at the bottom of the net pots with some doing a little better.. but the roots are dark.. not really dark just not white you know? and those that are the worst effected by the root problem have horrible discolorations in the leaves. It looks like it could be nutrient lockout which I will be checking the pH when the grow show starts tonight. its at about 6.5 at the moment and im going to aim for about 5.8. I am also going to buy a PPM meter this afternoon when i go to pick up my carbon filter. so anyway where was i... i dunno. i can provide pictures tonight after 10 pm pacific......

 

[todaystomale]

Re: root rot? offwhite/brown roots spotted foilage

42 views with not a single reply?

 

[PrairiePoet]

It helps to get answers if you follow the suggestion in the link on my sig. Also with something like this pics make it much easier to see what you are talking about

Prairie

 

[todaystomale]

What Strain is it? a few strains.
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? all hybrids not sure of percentages
How Many Plants? below my legal alotted amount
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? flowering
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long?
If in Flowering Stage... How Long?
Indoor or Outdoor? inside
Soil or Hydro? hydroponic
If Hydro, Reservoir size? 115 gallons though we only fill to 110
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature? ill have to get back to you on that it shuld be the ambient temp in the room or a little under... i'd say probably about74
If Hydro, what type of Medium? hydroton rockwool
If Hydro, what type of Setup? ebb and flow
If Soil... What is in your Mix? I use cutting edge products at their application rates currently just bloom and micro. also add dutchmaster zone for my root zone
If Soil... What Size Pot?
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? 2 1k watt hps and 1 600 watt verticle light tubes
Is it Air Cooled? yes
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? night is low to mid 70s day time is high to low 80s
RH of Room/Cabinet?not sure what RH is
PH of Medium or Reservoir?reservoir is in between 5.0 and 6 i dont have the most accurate meter
Any Pests? none
How Often are you Watering? every 3 hours in the day time only
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used?
Size or Square Footage of Room?11' x 12' x avg of 9'

i hope this helps? I think I have been having problems with nutrient lockout due to ph. I wasnt testing my water prior to putting in my nutrients so my PH reading was not accurate. I flushed each of my 84 5 inch net pots for 30 seconds a piece with my pump last night and mixed new nutrient solution. I need to figure out how to add pictures to help you to help me. The grow show once again doesnt start til 10 pm pacific time so it will be later that i get pictures

 

[PrairiePoet]

That is much better information.

The temps are a bit high, but not that bad. Except the res temps. You need to measure them also. If your air is getting to high to low 80's, then likely your res temp is too. Should be around 65.

pH also needs to be checked and kept in range at all times.

Without pics, really hard to say. Here is the link to posting pics: Photo Gallery Guide - How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos

Some nutrients will dis-color roots a bit. What brand are you using, or did I miss that?

HTH,
Prairie

 

[todaystomale]

i am using cutting edge solutions which i know is higher in salts. I got a few pictures to give you an idea. im not sure if i put this in the OP but it is a verticle system so the higher temperature readings are from the top(8 feet hi) and heat rises. the reservoir is on the ground covered from the light so i am assuming that the temp will be several degrees colder. last night I changed out the noot solution and ph'd my water to a proper 5.5 before adding the nutes. Today no salt build up in the rez. I am fairly sure that my problem was nutrient lockout cuz after just 24 hours of the noots sitting in the rez the edges were covered in salt. Also the entire system was leached last night 30 seconds per net pot. gonna look into the picture posting now

 

[todaystomale]

please refer to my new post for pictures

 

[lendee]

THIS IS WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT ROOT ROT WEATHER YOU HAVE PROBLEMS NOW OR NOT IT'S FROM ANOTHER POST ON ANOTHER SITE AND THE AUTHOR'S NICK NAME IS GANJA AKA HEISENBERG.

When a clear snot forms on roots in a DWC, and the normal course of treatment for root disease doesn't work, you probably have something called brown slime algae, which actually isn't algae at all, but a cyanobacteria. It loves oxygen and doesn't need light to grow. It doesn't care if your res is chilled or not. Safe levels of H202 slows it a bit but doesn't cure it. It can show up for DWC growers for no apparent reason even after years of successful grows. Once it shows up it's often a nightmare to get rid of. It WILL eventually spread to other DWC tubs, although it almost never gains a foothold on older well developed healthy plants/roots.

Several root conditions will cause a slimy build up; doesn't mean you have the brown slime. Common root disease is almost always caused by improper res conditions, and they improve greatly when those conditions are corrected. This isn't true of the slime. When to suspect brown slime algae is when you are doing everything right and still can't get rid of it. People who get this try the normal stuff... More bubbles in the water, cool res temps, and h202 treatments. The slime may appear to be gone at first, but comes back strong in as little as 12-36 hours. It starts out subtle like a clear coating of mucus on the roots with no odor. Plants often still appear healthy for a while, but all root production stops. In a very short time it will cover the entire root base and become thicker and sometimes turns yellow. Eventually it strangles the roots which causes pythium to set in, and at that point turns brown and finally has an odor.

The treatment is to clean up and sterilize the root base, and then populate the water with beneficial microbes. Simply running a continuous sterilizing agent such as SM-90, Zone, ect will almost certainly end with the slime as the winner. Some people have had luck running bleach or physan 20 continuously in the water, but most do not want there plants soaking in these particular chemicals. Making a microbe tea is cheap and easy, and IMO the proper way to fight this slime in a perpetual DWC garden.

Clean up the root base as well as possible. Best thing to do, if you can, is hold the plant over the sink and use the sprayer to vigorously rinse the roots, trying to get all the dead roots and gunk to slough off. It's also okay to give the dying roots a slight tug to see if they come off. Now let the roots soak in a mixture of whatever sterilizing agent you have. Physan 20 works great. This is a good time to sterilize any equipment and give the res a good scrub. After a few hours, no more than 12, of soaking in the solution rinse the roots really really well again, prepare a fresh res, and inoculate the res with beneficial microbes. Wait another 12 hours before adding nutes.

*** The smaller your roots, the less likely the are to survive a strong h202 treatment. In my experience using h202 will increase your recovery time.

Once the slime is gone be sure to practice proper res maintenance, which includes keeping any type of organic material out of the res. Trying to sterilize the res water is often a losing battle. In fact, since most hydro sterilizers fail to kill this stuff, when you sterilize the water you are removing competing microbes and opening the field to slime. There are people who use RO filters and then run their water through a UV sterilizer and still end up with the slime. The answer always seems to be beneficial microbes.

Below is my previous introduction to preparing and applying a microbe tea.


In DWC the roots sit in water constantly putting them at huge risk for disease. Some people have great luck using nothing at all. Others find sterilizing products keep their roots white, but a few of us have found that even with proper res maintenance and doing everything right, we still get a slimy build up on the roots. This is when a microbe tea can really make a difference by robbing the slime of housing, food, and actually attacking it.

By making a microbe tea with a diverse selection of organisms you will have a super tonic for you res that will ward off nasty gunk and build up while at the same time keeping your roots stimulated and growing. Best of all it can be made for just pennies per batch.

Ok so we wont be starting from scratch. You have to buy a few products. But instead of using the products directly in the res, you will be breeding them in a tea. This way, you can use a fraction of the regular dose and make your products last much longer. Plus, you will end up with a freshly active tea that is more diverse than anything you can buy on the market.

Aquashield ($12) The product composition consists of: Bacillus subtilis, Paenibacillus polymxa, Bacillus circulans, and Bacillus amyloliquefaciens. This gives you a base population of beneficial bacteria. (Aquashield can be replaced by any inoculation that contains bacillus bacteria.)

ZHO Powder ($10) The product composition consists of: Glomus intradices, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum, Glomus mosseae, Trichoderma harzianum, and Trichoderma koningii. This gives you a base populartion of beneficial fungi. (ZHO can be replaced by any inoculation that contains myco fungi)

Ancient Forest ($14) - Soil amendment provides a high diversity of microorganisms, including more than 35,000 species of bacteria and over 5,000 species of fungi. (AF can be replaced by any earth worm casting)

EDIT* Mycogrow soluble is the cheapest and most diverse inoculant we have found. It can replace everything here except the ancient forest.


The recipe is really simple. Start with non-chlorinated water. I make 2 gallons at a time, but you can easily adjust the additives for whatever amount you wish to make. Now put the water into a bucket and throw in a couple air stones. The more air the better. You want the water to be almost turbulent from the bubbles. Now, add 15-30ml of aquashield and about 1/4-1/2 scoop of the ZHO powder. You will be breeding these into the billions so it doesn't really matter how much you start with, just don't overdo it. Now take an old sock or pantyhose and fill it with about 2 handfuls of EWC or Ancient Forest. Tie off the sock and place it in the water above an air stone, or better yet, feed an air stone down into the sock itself. If you want, you can just throw the EWC directly into the water and strain it out later with cheesecloth or even an aquarium net. Next, add about a tablespoon of molasses to wake up the microbes and give them something to eat. We will only be feeding the microbes in this tea; never add food for the microbes to the res itself. It's okay if the bennies in the res starve. You will be replacing them every few days. Now let the tea bubble at room tempeture for 48 hours. It can be used after 24, but will be more active and diverse at 48. If you use EWC you will probably notice a foam eventually, this is normal. After 48 hours you can store the tea in the fridge where it will stay fresh for about 10 days. Once it starts to go bad it will develop an odor. If you ever detect an odor from your tea, throw it out and make a new batch. Fresh tea can have a range of smells from earthy to mossy to shroomy. Bad tea smells like gym socks, fecal matter, or decay.

Initially, add about 1 cup to your res for every gallon of water, and then add 1 cup total every 3 days after. If you can, pour a little over the base of the stalk to inoculate the root crown. Your water might get a little cloudy but your roots will stay white and stimulated. When you use tea and practice proper res maintenance you can feel confident your roots will be healthy. By multiplying the microbes this way your products should last a great deal longer. Once you have eradicated slime and simply want protection from future outbreaks, adjust the tea dosage to 1 cup per 10 gallons about once per week.

If you are interested in why the tea works, or what products you may use for substitution, continue reading the rest of the thread. It is a journey I took with others to learn a great more about the tea. If you want to see how I use this tea in a cloner, jump to here.

***In an attempt to address frequent issues which bloat the thread

You can substitute just about any product you want. Any EWC will give you a good base of microbes. Any product or combo of products which contain mycos, bacillus, and trichoderma will do the trick. Don't worry about matching my exact ingredients. The exception is AN microbe products. Stay away from AN microbe products!


If you notice a dark sort of slime form after you treat with tea, stay the course. As long as you see new shoots growing you are on your way to recovery. The after-slime is harmless and will not expand or stall roots. New root tips are what you want to see.

Do not use tea with h202, sm-90, Zone or any type of sterilizing product. Do not filter tea beyond 400 microns.

If you have slime attacking plants with very small roots, adding housing to your res like a lava rock or koi pond mat will make a big difference. Place the housing in your tea brew for the duration and then move it to your res.

No one has reported sprayers clogging from using regular tea. But, if you are concerned you can also try aquashield by itself without brewing. High pressure nozzles will kill most microbes, medium pressure and simple sprayers are fine.


Take care of impropoer res conditions FIRST. Even the tea will not save you from disease if you do not have enough oxygen or proper temperatures. Res water should be around 75f with bennies. Air pump should be at least 1wt per gallon. Light proof your buckets!

 

[Alaskan1]

Best advice I can give is to use Dutch masters Zone and not have to worry about it at all from the start. The zone will help keep the system sterile and never let any bad bacteria ever take hold. Also, best thing you can do is keep res temps between 65 and 72 for optimal nute uptake through the root system. I have 3 airstones running at all times in my 55 gallon res of nutes. I use 3 table spoons of DM Zone per 55 gal res to keep the bacteria away. If you already have root rot I would double that amount to kill the crap. Use the zone and you will see improvement. It has been done time and time again on the journals in this forum.