3 grows in, struggling mid flower

[Emilya Green]

Lol, because of nutrient burn! My DP plant didn't like full feedings and got roasted quickly. I slowly increase nutrients and decrease when leaf tips show signs of nutrient burn.

I've been thinking a lot about the replies here, I'm not one of those people that asks for help and then brushes over the help provided, I dig deep and really appreciate advice.

The earlier post that mentions flushing 2-3 times during a grow has my attention, at most I've flushed only once per grow and I think the salts are building up causing lockout. Maybe I'm feeding at 1/2 strength due to the fact that the plant is locked out with too many salts piling up in the soil.

So next grow, I'm all about the flush. Keeping salts away. Now, I just need to get my aeration and drainage sorted out and I'll be a flushing fool! (Funny, most feed schedules advise to flush a few times during the grow, maybe I shoulda listened.)

It is very common for new growers of this weed to confuse nutrient burn (the tips are turning brown!!) with nutrient deficiencies, that also present their symptoms in the tips of the leaves. Potassium is a perfect example as its main way of showing is for an extended leaf tip necrosis to occur. I think you made this mistake and instead of increasing the nutes as the plant was calling for, you thought it was a burn and cut back. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this... even saw a couple of cases just this week.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

Durban Poison early flower--SF-1000

 

[Emilya Green]

well, definitly not 100%. Tuff call without seeing the plant, as plant size matters.

its certainly not justification to go with 1/2 nutes. Feed full nutes and then react if the plant shows an excess.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

It is very common for new growers of this weed to confuse nutrient burn (the tips are turning brown!!) with nutrient deficiencies, that also present their symptoms in the tips of the leaves. Potassium is a perfect example as its main way of showing is for an extended leaf tip necrosis to occur. I think you made this mistake and instead of increasing the nutes as the plant was calling for, you thought it was a burn and cut back. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this... even saw a couple of cases just this week.

thanks yes, I've read about this and considered it. I've been few a few grows and this was nutrient burn for sure. The Dynagrow seems to be a little hot, especially using magpro. I did move up to full feedings but reduced them due to signs nutrient burn. Again, maybe my soil was holding too much salts from previous feedings. Hell, I'd love to give my plants more food.... Maybe after flushing a few times next grow my plant will pick up its appetite.

If you look at the advice given by many, half dose feedings seem to be the norm from what I've seen, especially early veg. I cant tell you how many people have told me to feed at 1/2 to even 1/4 strength....So this aint my idea, I'm listening to others...

 

[Emilya Green]

Maybe after flushing a few times next grow my plant will pick up its appetite.

I think you will be surprised. I have always fed heavily, even back in the day when I grew under T5HO florescents and Fox Farm nutrients. Fox Farm calls for 5 flushes throughout the grow. I did them all, and found great benefit from doing so.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

I trained and topped 3 times, maybe too much plant for such a little pot? I had around 25 tops all at equal height. Maybe I'll keep my plant smaller next time--less veg less toppings...

 

[Emilya Green]

I did move up to full feedings but reduced them due to signs nutrient burn.

I wish I could have seen your "nutrient burns." I am betting that I would have advised you to do differently than you did.

 

[Emilya Green]

I trained and topped 3 times, maybe too much plant for such a little pot? I had around 25 tops all at equal height. Maybe I'll keep my plant smaller next time--less veg less toppings...

beautiful plants... no, too much topping is not it either. I used to top multiple times, every grow, using what I called the whack-a-mole method. By the time we got to bloom, each plant would have been topped over 20 times. This never caused a problem and always caused very hungry well producing plants.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

I think you will be surprised. I have always fed heavily, even back in the day when I grew under T5HO florescents and Fox Farm nutrients. Fox Farm calls for 5 flushes throughout the grow. I did them all, and found great benefit from doing so.

I think we are onto something here, I need to plan on flushing a few times. I'm pretty sure this is the missing piece of the puzzle.

You'd be surprised how many people have told me never to flush. There are many different ways to go with this hobby which makes it hell as a newbie !

 

[Emilya Green]

I think we are onto something here, I need to plan on flushing a few times. I'm pretty sure this is the missing piece of the puzzle.

You'd be surprised how many people have told me never to flush. There are many different ways to go with this hobby which makes it hell as a newbie !

yes I know... I am at battle with a group on this forum who profess that not only don't you need to flush but that flushing is harmful. The funny thing, is that as short as 5 years ago, the most common advice you would see on these forums to solve plant issues, was to first flush to reset the system, and then move on from there to solve whatever problems were still there.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

beautiful plants... no, too much topping is not it either. I used to top multiple times, every grow, using what I called the whack-a-mole method. By the time we got to bloom, each plant would have been topped over 20 times. This never caused a problem and always caused very hungry well producing plants.

Lol, did you steal that from me ? I call it whack a mole too ! I'm all about keeping all of the tops equal in height.

I got 3.5 ounces of bud off one plant last grow, almost all big fat tops. Week 6 flower things got really rough though due to salt buildup and a drop in PH....It probably woundn't have happened if I flushed earlier.. (I saved the plant by flushing and it crawled to the finish line.)

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

yes I know... I am at battle with a group on this forum who profess that not only don't you need to flush but that flushing is harmful. The funny thing, is that as short as 5 years ago, the most common advice you would see on these forums to solve plant issues, was to first flush to reset the system, and then move on from there to solve whatever problems were still there.

OK, I've made a decision to go with flushing at least twice per grow. Maybe once after Veg, and once after Stretch?

All of my feedcharts recommend flushing, I's always been on my mind as I skip over it. And yep, I think the salts got me in the end.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

Hey all, thanks so much. This forum seems amazing so far and I'm picking up some very useful information. It's nice to be able to run these thoughts live with you all.

1. So, I am moving to multiple flushes per grow.

2. Still need to work on my soil aeration/drainage, what to add to increase air and drainage to FF Happy Frog. (to allow flushing)

At least thats the plan, Stan.

 

[Emilya Green]

I think the salts got me in the end.

contrary to what many bro-scientists will tell you, salt lockout is a very common problem. Some here actually justify the dead sunleaves that result from this lazy non flushing neglect, calling it senescence, because if you can give it a fancy name and think of it as a natural dying process, then the gardener themselves can't be blamed.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

beautiful plants... no, too much topping is not it either. I used to top multiple times, every grow, using what I called the whack-a-mole method. By the time we got to bloom, each plant would have been topped over 20 times. This never caused a problem and always caused very hungry well producing plants.

Thanks man, weed is around 300 an ounce here. My second grow, northern lights is cured and putting my 300 an ounce top shelf dispensary weed to shame. I'm loving my home grown buds a lot more than theirs...

As the saying goes, if you want something done right, do it yourself!

 

[Emilya Green]

Hey all, thanks so much. This forum seems amazing so far and I'm picking up some very useful information. It's nice to be able to run these thoughts live with you all.

1. So, I am moving to multiple flushes per grow.

2. Still need to work on my soil aeration/drainage, what to add to increase air and drainage to FF Happy Frog. (to allow flushing)

At least thats the plan, Stan.

stop using happy frog but if you want more drainage, add more perlite. Use Ocean Forest with 20% perlite or pumice. FFOF was actually made to grow cannabis. If Ocean Forest is coming in unclean where you live, run it through your oven at 300° for 30 minutes to kill any bugs and larvae. If you have a bad taste in your mouth regarding OF, give Roots Organic 101 a try. There are good soils out there.

Lastly, if you have added rocks or gravel in the bottom of your containers "to help drainage" this is totally a mistake. A layer of gravel or rocks will actually hold moisture in the bottom of the container. Soil is designed with several parameters in mind. Flow through rate (how fast it absorbs moisture), moisture retention rate (how much water it can hold), cation exchange rate (how many nutes it can grab for use in the water only pass) and pH. Messing with these parameters by mixing different soils or adding stuff like perlite or vermiculite, will change the way the manufacturers intended their soil to be used.

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

contrary to what many bro-scientists will tell you, salt lockout is a very common problem. Some here actually justify the dead sunleaves that result from this lazy non flushing neglect, calling it senescence, because if you can give it a fancy name and think of it as a natural dying process, then the gardener themselves can't be blamed.

Hear you loud and clear ! You shouldn't see this ugliness so early in flower. Its tough to know what is normal yellowing during mid to late flower vs a problem. But I have watched grows go nice and healthy right to the end with nice green fan leaves. I'm on the wrong side here.

Here is a picture before I flushed, all hell breaking loose. I tested runoff PH at 4.5 !! An earlier flush might have prevented this...

I made it to harvest with over 3 zips off 1 plant and 100 watts of light. I think I could have had 5 zips if it wasnt for the salts building up..

Here is the ugly !

 

[CharlesBukowksi]

stop using happy frog but if you want more drainage, add more perlite. Use Ocean Forest with 20% perlite or pumice. FFOF was actually made to grow cannabis. If Ocean Forest is coming in unclean where you live, run it through your oven at 300° for 30 minutes to kill any bugs and larvae. If you have a bad taste in your mouth regarding OF, give Roots Organic 101 a try. There are good soils out there.

Lastly, if you have added rocks or gravel in the bottom of your containers "to help drainage" this is totally a mistake. A layer of gravel or rocks will actually hold moisture in the bottom of the container. Soil is designed with several parameters in mind. Flow through rate (how fast it absorbs moisture), moisture retention rate (how much water it can hold), cation exchange rate (how many nutes it can grab for use in the water only pass) and pH. Messing with these parameters by mixing different soils or adding stuff like perlite or vermiculite, will change the way the manufacturers intended their soil to be used.

I'll never touch FFOF again, it's pure poison I'm telling you....Any chance your on the east coast?

Here is an example of what I mean. I start a plant in FF Happy Frog and its green and pretty, roots nice and white everything perfect. (solo cup or small pot) I then transplant the plant to Ocean Forest and it stops growing, leaves twist and after a few weeks all of the leaves start dropping. Ive tried everything and in the end dumped a full bag of FFOF in the woods.

I've tried it a few times. I'm telling you whatever crap Fox Farm is selling on the east coast is garbage. (My local nursery tried to warn me too...They get nothing but complaints from their customers.) They do recommend Happy Frog or Coast Of Maine.

I may move to another soil next grow, we'll see. I know Fox Farm Happy frog well though and wold hate to complicate my learning curve with a new soil. I'm leaning towards 50/50 Happy Frog/ Light warrior--Perlite. I want it draining so good that I need to water once a day ! (exageration but you know what I mean, I need water passing through the soil to flush out salts.)

 

[Mayne]

happy frog has a tendency to drop PH alot because of the wood chunks in it.

I wont ever use anything other then coco now, watering problems solved.

That plant looks awesome man,

 

[OGpapa]

Hmph. I to had issue with ocean forest. Each bag I purchased was infested, had larvae thru entire bag.

I went to multiple stores locally, and tried ordering online. Finally gave up. Happy frog has done me well, until @Emilya pointed out the obvious issue I had. Starving my plants, with strictly water diet.

I'm an idiot.