Any Vets have experience with MMJ and the VA?

W

wild11b

New Member
Hey all,
I'm a retired vet, and I wont get into detail, but I have chronic pain from injuries sustained. The VA is more than willing to send me bottles full of vicodin every month for the rest of my life. Problem is, I hate taking them (no s##t) because I can't sleep and I turn into the biggest Ahole in the world when I do take them. I am concerned/paranoid about getting my MMJ license because of what I have heard about the VA, pain meds, MMj, blah blah. I have found amazing relief from PTSD issues (I dont jump at every noise I hear when I self medicate), I sleep at night, the pain doesn't bother me, and I can live with other people. Its a no brainer for me but I'd like some input from someone with experience before I make any decisions. Thanks in advance. Live for today, tomorrow never comes.
 
Hey Brother thanks, I think I've seen a similar article elsewhere, and the VA's got something similar on their site. I don't 100% trust anything said in the media, different story though. Just looking for anyone with experience with it. Thanks again
 
I have not had any problems with the VA as far as MMJ, they will not give you any kind of narcotic pills or stuff like that if they know you use MJ legal or not because they are still under federal laws not state laws. They can not deny you treatment though. I hope this helps.
 
I am a vet USAF 1980-84 and would have given advice if I had any. Thing is I have never used the VA and never will. I did my time and want nothing more to do with our corrupt government. I pay my taxes and fees as needed to function in society and nothing more.

Hope you get some usefull info for yourself.

*I did use the VA "greencard" guaranteed homeloan for the house I purchased when I got out, House paid off in 2008 tho and no more government ties.

:peace:
WillyB
 
It has become common policy for any VA Hospital operating in a MMJ State to allow Medical Marijuana Patients their pain meds despite testing positive for Marijuana as long as you are a registered or documented MMJ Patient within State guidelines obeying State MMJ Law. I have posted the same link to this article before and it is OK to do so we do not usually allow outside links but this is an exception that benefits us all.
+Rep
 
Hey Wild,

This is a bit long winded, but I have answers for you and any other veterans out there. I have trouble focusing, apologies for that ahead of time!!!

I'm a Vet too. I get a pile of pills in the mail every month. HydroMorphone (dilauded) and fentanyl and much more... I can't take this stuff for another 40 years, or until I die. Absurd! I was scared to death of what the VA might do while I was going through a routine evaluation. The rumors about the VA are enough to scare anyone!

Here is the website and the man you need to talk to for VA and medical Marijuana concerns. One man really can make a difference.
Welcome to the VMCA Website | VMCA

In July, as you will read, the VA became the first federal agency to accept MMJ for medicinal use!! I had a copy of the early press release from Michael Krawitz and gladly tacked up 100 fliers of it in July, all over the VA clinics. If you or any vet needs a copy of the original letter that started these changes, I have it.

If you are in a medical MJ state and have a valid MJ card, you will get no problems with the VA. They can no longer make you fill out a pain contract or drug test you. If you are given one, refuse to fill it out. You will not be denied medical care, benefits, medications, not even narcotics for pain. You might get lucky and have a VA doc that wants to learn about medical MJ. Don't hold your breath on that one! Every time I say I use MMJ, they just change the subject. LOL!

My own advice... Every few months, get a copy of your VA records and read all the doc comments. They will write down every word you say, even the jokes. It's darn irritating if you have a dry sense of humor! By reading your records every few months, you will then get a feel of what your doctor really thinks and change if need be. Many of us have to get medical care at a base clinic since VA clinics are few and far between. The AD docs also can't do anything to harm you, just make some interesting remarks that make your med records look like they belong to your evil twin. Mine are peppered with comments like "patient was told to stop smoking pot and refused." I've never been told to stop, not once. Be warned that you will find you medical MJ listed under the "illegal drug" category, even in VA records. This won't harm you, it's just insulting to be made out as a "druggie" to any future doctor to see and repeat... over and over.

MJ is one of the few things to help PTSD... I hope some day Vets in any state will have access to medical Cannabis. The suicide rate from PTSD is sickening! Very glad to hear it helps you. My god, anything that keeps what you've seen, done, and heard from replaying in your head each time you close your eyes, is truly amazing. It's worth fighting for.

Veterans need to be able to find each other, share info, and not have to hide MMJ use like criminals. Someday... (sigh)

I loose track of the threads I post in, so feel free to PM me. I'm not doing well today, hope some of my post makes sense. Please send the VMCA website to any other veterans you know. It's up to use to help each other!!!

Lusi

Ah, another thing to add! The VA has approved me for a home loan... just more proof my MMJ use has no effect on anything else. I just got my 100% unemployability rating, with my MMJ use fully documented in my records. That says a lot.
\:peacetwo:
 
My doc was understanding about me being a MMJ user legal of course, but he wanted me to do research on the pros and cons of the use of it. He also told me as well that he would not perscribe me any narcotics while I was using MJ period. I don't really care because I have been taking pain pills from them for about 15 years with no real relief for my back. I think they are just a bunch of pill pushers anyways, when they would give me a new med to try out it was usually a three month supply whether it worked or not.
 
The new VA policy on MMJ is a joke. If you actually read the thing it gives the power for final decison to the doctor or clinic. Up here in northern california (redding, ca) the local clinic and all VA doctors state they see the new directive differently than what we MMJ users see it as and refuse to allow MMJ and pain meds together. I tried contacting the VAMC and once I informed them of the clinic and doctor I was having trouble with (at their request) I never heard another word. I've been fighting this fight for years and basically had to choose cannabis over any pain meds. I took myself of 12 years of morphine use by using the cannabis.
My advice... hide the MMJ use if you can and don't sign a pain contract with your primary care doctor. The pain contracts are not VA policy and are not drawn up on VA papers. They are something the doctors themselves want to use control you and any drugs you might use.
 
Hey all, Thanks for the links and the comments. I'm happy to see that someone pulled their head out of their ass and made a common sense decision. Thanks again for your help and thanks to all Vets for their service.
 
Hey again,

I also live in northern CA where there are 4 VA clinics within an hour drive. This is the first time I've lived near a VA clinic and am so far OK with their treatment plan. The civilian and AD sector had over 10Grand of redundant tests and medications, even bumping up my narcotics to Methadone and other things I refuse to try. My military PCM is just a kid, overwhelmed by drug companies. The VA treatment plan was to keep all meds, even the narcotics, especially those, and see what happens. I've been waiting years to "see what happens." I'm getting worse is about it.

I've read every single VA eval and records. The VA pain specialist, psych, PCM, and PT accept my use of Medical Marijuana, one encourages it. The psych statement says I don't have an addictive personality. LOL!!!! Therefore, I now have my 100% and a VA loan for a house. All of this happens after my info about medical MJ. If you don't have to tell the VA about this, then don't bother. If it comes out later, it's better the info gets there from you.

If I could do it all again, I'd have tried to establish a relationship with my medical team before telling them bout MMJ. (it was impossible to wait in my case) Any doctor you know and trust is worth their weight in gold. Beware to read your records so you know what they really think! LOL

Keep trying Mr. K form the VMME. That web site took off as a one man show, and some work to maintain. It's the holidays and he's likely not around much. Michael is doing his best to help veterans like us. Give him a call after the first, leave a good time to call back! There is a good chance he is familiar with your area and VA docs... that will come in handy. :) I'd make sure to ask him about pain patients already taking prescription pain killers, if the VA can take them away. Until you know about your doc's MMJ views, don't say anything about it, if possible.
GL
 
I told my psyciatrist and my regular doctor at the VA that I use MMJ. They knew well before the VA accepted the california state laws. I am still here so..... I think the VA as a whole is looking more favorably upon MMJ.
 
In my State MM has been legalized. I have a card, am in the VA system and also advocate for States rights to legalize the substance. I find that the effects of the drug are far more extensive than just easing my PTSD symptoms. It acts as a potent analgesic, relieves sleep and anxiety issues and assists me with my cluster headaches. I was told yesterday by a VA rep that the Fed is pressuring the VA to cut benefits for vets prescribed cards, however, this is an inside rumor. It comes as no surprise though as the DEA, the FED, the Secret Service, CIA, FBI and the FDA are doing everything they can to try and cut the legs out from under the MM movement nationwide. The only way to make this change is to stand up and challenge the Federal Government's stance on the issue and write new law.
 
This may help clarify your questions. I too am a Viet Nam era vet. I retired in 95 and have been a mmj patient for almost three years now. My primary care doc is active duty on a military installation. He is aware of my cannabis use and has informed me that it's not a problem with him and my use does not violate any policies. Unfortunately, he is not allowed to recommend mmj as it is still a schedule 1 drug.


MILITARY VETERANS ASSOCIATIONS

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TREA * VFW * Vietnam * Wounded Warriors






6.06.2011




Veterans and Medical Marijuana



The Department of Veterans Affairs will formally allow patients treated at its hospitals and clinics to use medical marijuana in states where it is legal, a policy clarification that veterans have sought for several years.

A Department Directive, expected to take effect next week, resolves the conflict in veterans facilities between federal law, which outlaws marijuana, and the 14 states and the District of Columbia that allow medicinal use of the drug, effectively deferring to the states.

The policy will not permit department doctors to prescribe marijuana. But it will address the concern of many patients who use the drug that they could lose access to their prescription pain medication if caught.

Under department rules, veterans can be denied pain medications if they are found to be using illegal drugs. Until now, the department had no written exception for medical marijuana.

This has led many patients to distrust their doctors, veterans say. With doctors and patients pressing the veterans department for formal guidance, agency officials began drafting a policy last fall.

"When states start legalizing marijuana we are put in a bit of a unique position because as a federal agency, we are beholden to federal law," said Dr. Robert Jesse, the principal deputy under secretary for health in the veterans department.

At the same time, Dr. Jesse said, "We didn't want patients who were legally using marijuana to be administratively denied access to pain management programs."

The new, written policy applies only to veterans using medical marijuana in states where it is legal. Doctors may still modify a veteran's treatment plan if the veteran is using marijuana, or decide not to prescribe pain medicine altogether if there is a risk of a drug interaction. But that decision will be made on a case-by-case basis, not as blanket policy, Dr. Jesse said.

Though veterans of the Vietnam War were the first group to use marijuana widely for medical purposes, the population of veterans using it now spans generations, said Michael Krawitz, executive director of Veterans for Medical Marijuana Access, which worked with the department on formulating a policy.

Veterans, some of whom have been at the forefront of the medical marijuana movement, praised the department's decision. They say cannabis helps soothe physical and psychological pain and can alleviate the side effects of some treatments.

"By creating a directive on medical marijuana, the V.A. ensures that throughout its vast hospital network, it will be well understood that legal medical marijuana use will not be the basis for the denial of services," Mr. Krawitz said.

Although the Obama administration has not embraced medical marijuana, last October, in a policy shift, the Justice Department announced that it would not prosecute people who used or distributed it in states where it was legal.

Laura Sweeney, a spokeswoman for the Justice Department, would not comment spefically on the veterans department policy. "What we have said in the past, and what we have said for a while, is that we are going to focus our federal resources on large scale drug traffickers," she said. "We are not going to focus on individual cancer patients or something of the like."

Many clinicians already prescribe pain medication to veterans who use medical marijuana, as there was no rule explicitly prohibiting them from doing so, despite the federal marijuana laws.

Advocates of medical marijuana use say that in the past, the patchwork of veterans hospitals and clinics around the country were sometimes unclear how to deal with veterans who needed pain medications and were legally using medical marijuana. The department's emphasis on keeping patients off illegal drugs and from abusing their medication "gave many practitioners the feeling that they are supposed to police marijuana out of the system," Mr. Krawitz said.

"Many medical-marijuana-using veterans have just abandoned the V.A. hospital system completely for this reason," he said, "and others that stay in the system feel that they are not able to trust that their doctor will be working in their best interests."

In rare cases, veterans have been told that they need to stop using marijuana, even if it is legal, or risk losing their prescription medicine, Mr. Krawitz said.

David Fox, 58, an Army veteran from Pompey's Pillar, Mont., uses medical marijuana legally to help quiet the pain he experiences from neuropathy, a nerve disorder. But he said he was told this year by a doctor at a veterans' clinic in Billings that if he did not stop using marijuana, he would no longer get the pain medication he was also prescribed.

A letter written to Mr. Fox in April from Robin Korogi, the director of the veterans health care system in Montana, explained that the department did not want to prescribe pain medicine in combination with marijuana because there was no evidence that marijuana worked for noncancer patients and because the combination was unsafe.

"In those states where medical marijuana is legal, the patient will need to make a choice as to which medication they choose to use for their chronic pain," Ms. Korogi wrote. "However, it is not medically appropriate to expect that a V.A. physician will prescribe narcotics while the patient is taking marijuana."

Mr. Fox was shocked by the decision, he said.

"I felt literally abandoned," he said. "I still needed my pain meds. I thought they were supposed to treat you. It was devastating for me."

Mr. Fox, who said that at one point he was weaning himself off his pain medication for fear of running out, has held one-man protests in front of the clinic, carrying signs that read "Abandoned by V.A., Refused Treatment."

Veterans officials would not comment on specific cases, citing medical privacy laws.

This month, Dr. Robert A. Petzel, the under secretary for health for the veterans department, sent a letter to Mr. Krawitz laying out the department's policy. If a veteran obtains and uses medical marijuana in accordance with state law, Dr. Petzel wrote, he should not be precluded from receiving opioids for pain management at a veterans facility.

Dr. Petzel also said that pain management agreements between clinicians and patients, which are used as guidelines for courses of treatment, "should draw a clear distinction between the use of illegal drugs, and legal medical marijuana."

Dr. Jesse, the veterans department official, said that formalizing rules on medical marijuana would eliminate any future confusion and keep patients from being squeezed between state and federal law.

Steve Fox, director of government relations for the Marijuana Policy Project, which favors the legal regulation of the drug, called the decision historic. "We now have a branch of the federal government accepting marijuana as a legal medicine," he said.

But Mr. Fox said he wished the policy had been extended to veterans who lived in states where medical marijuana was not legal.

He said it was critical that the veterans department make its guidelines clear to patients and medical staff members, something officials said they planned on doing in coming weeks.

Said Dr. Jesse, "The whole goal of issuing a national policy is to make sure we have uniformity across the system."

Veterans and Medical Marijuana
Published by New York Times
 
I am also a veteran, U.S. Navy 68 to 72. I have a phsyciatrist and a regular doctor. I have told them both that I hold a med. cannabis card. After speaking with them they both agree that I should continue my mmj. My body doctor told me (he is from India) that this medicine is sold over the counter for anyone that needs it in India, He is all for it as I have gotten off my hydrocodone, and only use mmj for my pain. My psychiatrist at first was a little skeptical.but working with him he now understands why I use it and he is also for it now. The VA has become MUCH more leanient towards this great medicine.I personally beleive that as the VA becomes more accetable towards it, then It MAY be a big help in making it legal everywhere. after all THEY are the feds.
 
I am a vet also and use the VA and MJ. I am not a approved medical mj smoker wish my state would approve it. I am being treated by the VA and have gone to pain management for the treatment for pain and discomfort due to my Dystonia a muscular movement disorder. I mentioned MJ as a pain reliever but it was put down. They just wanted to give me more meds, which i tried and didn't like. I know they try ed to help but the VA is run by the federal govt. and oversee all state laws. So they would be breaking the law to help me with MJ. Best thing is to just keep quiet about your mj use and your benefits will not be effected.
 
If you are honest about your MMJ use it seems they hold it against you. I was told if I test positive once more they were going to remove me from the ain clinic. I told them they didn't need to go to any trouble and walked out. You can go in there falling down drunk and they think nothing of it, but tell them you smoke pot and it is held against you. I fought them on this for the last 9 years. Now I am going to a local Dr and getting good treatment and no worries about testing when I go for an appt.
 
I have Major depression and degenerative disc disease.I Have held my MMJ card in Cali for over 1 year. For 5 years I had been taking 4 Vi#$%n a day and 2 Flex&**$l a day too. I have weened myself off of the pain meds to the point of only taking 5 a month, and those are Bad days. I sleep better, eat better, can do more work cause I am not a constipated zombie. I have built a fence and begun turning my backyard into a garden (a BIG project) . My Va Docs ( I have 3 of them) know I am using it to treat pain and depression along with the meds the Va gives me. All of my Docs are pleased with the results I am getting. My last Visit my psychiatrist was really pleased with my progress. My relationships are better, daily life chores are easier, life is good and I am a nicer person because of it. I am still taking my meds for depression, they are working great with the MMJ, another surprise for my docs. :peace::love:
 

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