Calling all martians

[bizz]

Got some LED's to play with for veg to try and keep power bill lower.

Read up on the martian method and rauber's PAD... very interesting stuff, so...

12 clones in 4" pots rooting/vegging under 64w flouro, transplanted to 10" 2.5gallon pots when I set up the LED.

LED are all blue 452nm 90w UFO and all red 660nm 90w UFO. Growth really took off under LED compared to flouro, all leaves are healthy and pointed upwards.

After 11 days on 20/4, I set up 4 75w black lights and started the rauber advanced PAD. blue 6 / red-far red 18, with red-far red switching every 30min, during blue hours, red starts 15 minutes prior to blue and 15 min before end, my timers only have 20 settings so I couldnt alternate red on/off every half hour during blue, so I have 30 beginning blue/30 end and 90min in middle...

Been on advanced PAD for 1 week, saw pistils/hairs forming after 2 days, it took about 2.5 weeks under HPS to see same pistils/hair growth...

Got another 90w all red UFO few days ago

Growth rate is rediculous. Wont have enough space in veg chamber pretty soon and will be moving set up into flower area. Will set up black lights and 2 red LED UFO with HPS running vertical set to 600w.

Props to dogsnova, salmayo, irish and all the other LED trailblazers.

Questions: Will 600w HPS be adequate? Its a dimmable ballast and I could run higher, 750w/1000w...

BTW picked the UFO's up from local ebay seller for about $160 each(no shipping), yeah yeah they're made in china, but they seem to work pretty good, cant imagine the $400-600 units are 2-4 times better... by vegging with them instead of big HPS they almost pay for themselves in 1 cycle.

So is anybody else messing mith life on mars?

 

[bizz]

Re: Calling all martians...

No one else playing with red 660nm LED and blacklights?

 

[PitViper]

Re: Calling all martians...

welcome and do you have pics?
this may help
Photo Gallery Guide: How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos

 

[bizz]

Re: Calling all martians...

 

[dogsnova]

Re: Calling all martians...

LED are all blue 452nm 90w UFO and all red 660nm 90w UFO. Growth really took off under LED compared to flouro, all leaves are healthy and pointed upwards..

Did you do rauber's simple method.
Blue for 1/2 hour then blue/660nm for a 1/2 hour for your veg cycle?

After 11 days on 20/4, I set up 4 75w black lights and started the rauber advanced PAD. blue 6 / red-far red 18, with red-far red switching every 30min, during blue hours, red starts 15 minutes prior to blue and 15 min before end, my timers only have 20 settings so I couldnt alternate red on/off every half hour during blue, so I have 30 beginning blue/30 end and 90min in middle...?

For the 660nm you need the push pull timers that have 24 1/2 hour pins. Then you pull 12 of them. This will get your 660nm to run the full 24 hours in 1/2 hour cycles.

You also should put the black lights on a dimmer switch. You need to control the intensity especially during the first two week stretch phase.. If not you will get unwanted stretch IMO.. If you dim them down you can control this stretch phase real nicly..

Questions: Will 600w HPS be adequate? Its a dimmable ballast and I could run higher, 750w/1000w......?

Yes an HPS works but it gives more stretch IMO then a MH. The MH works better for most strains..

So is anybody else messing mith life on mars?

On this forum it was just me, But now there might be a couple of us.. That's great I was getting lonely up here on the red planet smokin all this PAD med's myself...LOL

 

[Stakkur]

Re: Calling all martians...

Plants look real nice, but i'm completely lost when it comes to LEDs and let alone the martian method and rauber's PAD but what google gave me sparked me intrest even though it was incoherent.
If somebody could inform me or give me a link with some useful info it would be great.

 

[bizz]

Re: Calling all martians...

Did you do rauber's simple method.
Blue for 1/2 hour then blue/660nm for a 1/2 hour for your veg cycle?

No, I was hoping my last run would go 8 weeks and it ended up going 10. So I had an extra 2 weeks to veg the clones/teens while the old girls finished flowering. The 64w flouro shop light worked good for clone/early veg but the plants were not exactly thriving under it as they matured. So I figured I needed something that could veg a bit better and not cost as much as the big light I was flowering/vegging with prior. I looked into LED as a cost saving measure since I could see people growing decent looking plants using LED. Some people even get 1gpw with LED which is respectable but not the kind of yield I was looking for considering the cost of big time LED.

I was about to buy a 3 or 4 spectrum LED UFO and I called up the guy selling them. I asked him why they sell all red or all blue units if the 3 or 4 spectrum worked so much better. He explained that some people run LED's 24/7 but he actually told me that you run blue continuously and red 12 hours a day, but I think this might be for long day plants... anyways I had been curious about running different light cycles like trying out 18 hour day 9 day week or maybe 34 hour day 5 day week because I think I like to experient and look for doing things my own way... so his comment got me searching the internets and after several late nights I finally found and read a majority of the posts from the last 2 years related to the subject. I read a lot of yours and salmayos comments and I figured if these guys were posting about this stuff for so long it had to have something to it and not be some attempt to stear people wrong as my friend thinks most internt cannabis commentary is...

so I was going to attempt this PAD stuff my next grow, but since I had an extra 2 weeks to veg I made the leap and went out got the LED's. I had to work up the conviction to go buy the black lights and set them up since I had a lot more confidence in just LED for veg and I was using my digital timers for the other run, PAD for flower was totally experimental... what the hell!

For the 660nm you need the push pull timers that have 24 1/2 hour pins. Then you pull 12 of them. This will get your 660nm to run the full 24 hours in 1/2 hour cycles.

I have a few of those, but dont see how I would sync the timers up, I actually hate those timers since I could never get them to make my light turn on, on the actual hour rather than 10-15min before or after... I have 3 digital timers that I like better, I have them running so when red and far red toggle there is a 1 minute over lap where they both on... I was thinking of going with 1hour intervals rather than 30min to solve this current issue with the timers...

You also should put the black lights on a dimmer switch. You need to control the intensity especially during the first two week stretch phase.. If not you will get unwanted stretch IMO.. If you dim them down you can control this stretch phase real nicly..

I'll pick one up from hardware store... altho I am 11 days into PAD flower, they've stretched a bit already, do you think I need it for the remainder of flower?

Yes an HPS works but it gives more stretch IMO then a MH. The MH works better for most strains..

I've been spending so much on equipment, since I'm doing PAD eventually I'll talk myself into a nice MH as my ballast can run both...

On this forum it was just me, But now there might be a couple of us.. That's great I was getting lonely up here on the red planet smokin all this PAD med's myself...LOL

I'm very curious to see what all the fuss is about this martian medicine.

 

[bizz]

Here are last shots flowering in veg chamber before moving to vert flower

 

[bizz]

Here is HPS vert chamber getting filled up

 

[bizz]

Here is vert chamber with HPS on

 

[bizz]

Here is martian red

 

[bizz]

and martian far red

 

[dogsnova]

Re: Calling all martians...

I have a few of those, but dont see how I would sync the timers up, I actually hate those timers since I could never get them to make my light turn on, on the actual hour rather than 10-15min before or after... I have 3 digital timers that I like better, I have them running so when red and far red toggle there is a 1 minute over lap where they both on... I was thinking of going with 1hour intervals rather than 30min to solve this current issue with the timers....

Ya those timers are bit*h to get to come on at the exact time (Time of day that is).. But they run somewhat accurate half hour segments, just so ya no for any future setups. But anyway you only need the 660nm cycling on during your blue (on time) when you use a low wattage blue light source, like all blue LED's or a small 150w or so HID.. So when running a big HID such as the one you are, then ya you don't need to run the 660nm wile the HID is on.. So your current timer setup is exactly how I do it when I have a big HID in the mix. The overlap is also how I setup my digital timers.. I overlap 1 min also. Remember this PAD lighting was developed mostly for people running an all LED setup. Yes it works good with HID setups but just keep in mind it's mostly for an all LED setup.

The reason I say this is because to do this method they way the masters designed it would be more like this. The flowering area should have mostly all 660nm. A good ratio would be like 250w of 660nm and 125w of blue and aprox 50 or so watts of LED 730nm for a 3x3 area. That type of setup right there wile running the 24hr flowering method will run less power then a typical 400w HPS HID setup and also would out produce it by good amount in these areas.... Flavor,trich production,thc content...ect.. The yield would be about the same thou as the 400w HID IMO..

Running 1 hour of 660nm and 1 hour of 730nm will throw the time factor off. I would not recommend that. The manual talks about running 730nm for an hour and that put's the time factor at 1.2 instead of 1.4.. Now what dose this mean. It means that a PAD lighting schedule that has 730nm for a 1/2 hour then 660nm/730nm for a 1/2 hour makes the plants think they are getting more darkness. So using this timing method you would only have the PAD lighting on aprox for 15hrs and the blue light source or (full spectrum light) would run for 9hrs.. So unfortunately those are the only two ways of doing PAD lighting that is worth doing .5hr 660nm/.5hr 730nm or .5hr 730nm/.5hr 660nm/730nm. Trust me the masters have already done as much testing on the PAD timing side that is needed..Sorry

One of the many things with PAD lighting is.. You create (SID) darkness for the plants but we as humans can't tell how much darkness we have created unless we calculate the lightings (time factor) and of course do the math. So you need to follow the timing setup the guy's at TP have mastered. Otherwise you will run a PAD lighting schedule the will ether A. not allow your girls to flower or B. put them into a late flowering/repining schedule. So be careful with changing the timing schedules that they have setup. JMO..

I'll pick one up from hardware store... altho I am 11 days into PAD flower, they've stretched a bit already, do you think I need it for the remainder of flower?.

First off let me say this.. Having the 730nm evenly spread throughout the garden is ideal (just as you have it). The reason you want the black lights on a dimmer switch is.. 300w of 730nm (4 black light bulbs) with what looks to be 180w of 660nm is to much 730nm, especially in the first few weeks of flowering. Now after the first month of flowering you could ramp up all that 730nm, but I still think it's way to much 730nm for the amount of 660nm you have in the area. You kind of want it the other way around. 300w of 660nm and aprox 100w 730nm. I know your not interested in making it that way especially running a big HID setup, but I'm just saying.. So remember when you read what I post I'm telling you this info for any future DIY setup you might put together.. So back to the subject. Having 4 black lights spread out evenly on a dimmer switch lets you get a nice even spread of 730nm and the dimmer switch will allow you to be able to control the wattage. For instance you can dim those 4 lights down to around 75w total between the 4 bulbs, witch is about the wattage you need IMO with 180w of 660nm..Dose this make sense. Hope so

I've been spending so much on equipment, since I'm doing PAD eventually I'll talk myself into a nice MH as my ballast can run both....

The funny thing is... IMO using a big HID setup 400w,600w,1,000w. Those big HID's are better served using rauber's substitution method. 6 hours of the HID and then 6 hours of a mixture of clear incandescent light bulbs and some 27k cfl's for a 6hr HPS/6hr inc/cfl/12 SID type of flowering. I like to make the clear inc/cfl mixture aprox a 100w less then the HID bulb I'm using.. That method is a lot easer to setup IMO and I guarantee this will give you better results then using your HPS alone for the full 12 hours of a normal 12/12 flower. Again just something to think about..

 

[bizz]

Re: Calling all martians...

...you only need the 660nm cycling on during your blue (on time) when you use a low wattage blue light source, like all blue LED's or a small 150w or so HID.. So when running a big HID such as the one you are, then ya you don't need to run the 660nm wile the HID is on..

so no need to cycle red during HPS, do you think there would be any benefit to running red UFO's during HPS continuously?

The reason I say this is because to do this method they way the masters designed it would be more like this. The flowering area should have mostly all 660nm. A good ratio would be like 250w of 660nm and 125w of blue and aprox 50 or so watts of LED 730nm for a 3x3 area. That type of setup right there wile running the 24hr flowering method will run less power then a typical 400w HPS HID setup and also would out produce it by good amount in these areas.... Flavor,trich production,thc content...ect.. The yield would be about the same thou as the 400w HID IMO..

I had already decided to change my HPS to vertical cool tube because of space concerns, the LED's evolved out of that decision because I was going to need to veg the plants before moving into vert space compared to horizontal reflector, I got 2 at first, a red and a blue, then later got another red... maybe if I went into it thinking i'd do rauber PAD i would have gone for a setup as you describe, but i had seen posts from you guys before and it was like scientific neo babble, i was going to buy a multi color UFO to veg and the guy mentioned people were doing 24/7... that got me curious and I tried to understand what y'all been going on about...

re:400w, I would prefer yield of 750w/1000w...

If I get some extra cash I might build out a more serious PAD set up but right now trying to make due with current gear.

The manual talks about running 730nm for an hour and that put's the time factor at 1.2 instead of 1.4.. Now what dose this mean. It means that a PAD lighting schedule that has 730nm for a 1/2 hour then 660nm/730nm for a 1/2 hour makes the plants think they are getting more darkness. So using this timing method you would only have the PAD lighting on aprox for 15hrs and the blue light source or (full spectrum light) would run for 9hrs..

so the .5/1.0 refers to running continuous 730nm and cycling 660nm?

First off let me say this.. Having the 730nm evenly spread throughout the garden is ideal (just as you have it). The reason you want the black lights on a dimmer switch is.. 300w of 730nm (4 black light bulbs) with what looks to be 180w of 660nm is to much 730nm, especially in the first few weeks of flowering. Now after the first month of flowering you could ramp up all that 730nm, but I still think it's way to much 730nm for the amount of 660nm you have in the area. You kind of want it the other way around. 300w of 660nm and aprox 100w 730nm. I know your not interested in making it that way especially running a big HID setup, but I'm just saying.. So remember when you read what I post I'm telling you this info for any future DIY setup you might put together.. So back to the subject. Having 4 black lights spread out evenly on a dimmer switch lets you get a nice even spread of 730nm and the dimmer switch will allow you to be able to control the wattage. For instance you can dim those 4 lights down to around 75w total between the 4 bulbs, witch is about the wattage you need IMO with 180w of 660nm..Dose this make sense. Hope so

wouldnt running higher wattage black lights effectively work similary to .5/1.0(660/730), speeding up time for 24 hour period?

The funny thing is... IMO using a big HID setup 400w,600w,1,000w. Those big HID's are better served using rauber's substitution method. 6 hours of the HID and then 6 hours of a mixture of clear incandescent light bulbs and some 27k cfl's for a 6hr HPS/6hr inc/cfl/12 SID type of flowering. I like to make the clear inc/cfl mixture aprox a 100w less then the HID bulb I'm using.. That method is a lot easer to setup IMO and I guarantee this will give you better results then using your HPS alone for the full 12 hours of a normal 12/12 flower. Again just something to think about..

I considered doing that method and also considered combining it with advanced PAD during blue light/HPS. Do you think they would work together?

I just thought maybe the HPS would provide yield, the red/far red increased potency and ripening, less stretch...

How close are the clear inc's and cfl's? are they set up sub canopy? is your MH position horizontal/vert?

 

[dogsnova]

Re: Calling all martians...

so no need to cycle red during HPS, do you think there would be any benefit to running red UFO's during HPS continuously?

That is correct.. I don't cycle the 660 when I use a larger HID bulb.That's not to say that you can't do it..I just don't..

Yes the extra 660 will do some good IMO but it needs to be placed lower in the canopy so the HID doesn't overpower it IMO.. I personally have not tried to add 660nm to an HID flower (wile the lights are on).. HID is too strong to get good penetration with led's, wile the lights on IMO..But I am testing a 660/Halogen combo instead of the clear inc's/cfl's combo I use when I do rauber's substitution method..So ya testing is what it's all about at this point.. Soon when Sal from TP starts a tread we can pick his brain for all kinds of advanced lighting/timing methods..In the mean time I am testing as much as I can.. I like to test and test and test some more...LOL

If your talking about making the 660 run continuously wile the HID is on then cycling it for PAD... This is also something I have not tried.. But ya go for it..

re:400w, I would prefer yield of 750w/1000w...

Yes I understand..An all LED setup like this would require quite a bit of LED watts. Someday they will be cheep enough...LOL

so the .5/1.0 refers to running continuous 730nm and cycling 660nm?

Yes. Doing it this way only requires that you cycle the 660 during the PAD lighting time. Also this method would allow you to run your HID more hours per day..Of course this also uses more power but the HID runs more also.. Just something to think about.

wouldnt running higher wattage black lights effectively work similary to .5/1.0(660/730), speeding up time for 24 hour period?

No... The problem with a higher wattage 730nm as a top lighting is. Until your flowers are at least past 4 to 5 weeks in the flowering stage using all that 730nm will pull the top of the flowers up and make them stretch, trust me you won't like it. Yes, stretch is effetely considered faster speed, but you will have this faster speed at a time when the grower (yourself) doesn't want it. Your flowers will not be stacked and hard as I'm sure you like them to be. They will be pulled up and stretchy looking. Not good IMO..So like I was saying to much 730nm in the beginning of the flower stage is not good..But after that stage is over you can ramp the 730nm up.. BUT were the threshold is for how much is to much 730nm.. I don't have that answer for ya.. Sorry.. You will have to refer to trial and error on this one..

Having a higher 730nm wattage on for a 1/2 hour only won't make it the same as having both spectrum on at the same time. Like the .5 /1.0 660/730.. That's a combined spectrum for a 1/2 hour..

I considered doing that method and also considered combining it with advanced PAD during blue light/HPS. Do you think they would work together?

Yes this is what I would like to call the HID holey grail...LOL.. Combine this technique with a hydro setup and IMO you cant get it any better..Unfortunately it requires more wiring and timers...

I just thought maybe the HPS would provide yield, the red/far red increased potency and ripening, less stretch...

Ya your on the right track with this thought.. But here is the thing you have verry little blue light in this combination of lighting. You see what I'm saying. An HPS has verry little blue light. So you will be running pretty much an ALL red spectrum and this will cause more stretch from what I have seen...Not much but some.. So ya the HPS is what's going to give you the yield in this type of setup. But 660nm is what gives the yield in a normal led PAD setup.. So the extra PAD lighting 660/730 in a HID setup will give a little bit extra yield and extra potency, this is correct.. As far as using a HPS or a MH you just need to try them both and see witch way your girls like it..

As far as ripening goes with a PAD lighting setup. You change the blue light (on time) durration to effectivly change the plants perseption of it's dark time.. So for ripening you want to make the plant think it's getting a 10/14 flowering schedule. You do this by changing the timing NOT by adding more 730nm to the mix.. Dose this make sence..

How close are the clear inc's and cfl's? are they set up sub canopy? is your MH position horizontal/vert?

I use a 400w HPS bulb with rauber's substitution method in a 3x3 area. I use a yield master II hood. So the HPS is horizontal and I put the clear inc's inside the hood so they can be air cooled when they are on. I hang the cfl's on the outside of the hood. The hood is then moved on a track so I can get even lighting across the canopy.

If your interested in this method. The best inc's I have found for this is the GE reveal Halogen bulbs. Lot's of 660/730 with these bulbs. As far as cfl's go I just use 42w 27k ones from the depot.

 

[bizz]

Re: Calling all martians...

Plants look real nice, but i'm completely lost when it comes to LEDs and let alone the martian method and rauber's PAD but what google gave me sparked me intrest even though it was incoherent.
If somebody could inform me or give me a link with some useful info it would be great.

the manual for PAD can be found in the pics section here MySpace - Temporal Photonics - 17 - Male - CHICO, California - myspace.com/temporalphotonics

that explains a lot but google is your friend and reading old posts on different forums(last 2 years) will show you how things have progressed

another jump off point, with some other links there

PAD ( RAUBER promises to consult ) - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community

 

[dogsnova]

Well good news bizz....Sal found this tread and read it..

He doesn't have an account at 420mag yet.. I'm trying to get him to sign up for one, but unfortunately he is extremely busy with some personal stuff till the end of April..Until then he will be Lurking...

This is what he wanted me to post to you..This came directly from an email he sent me. Lucky U..

Sal's email quote...

"Would you do me a favor and post to him about watching out for the possibility of a longer than hoped for night length response, and if any signs of slowed growth appear in that direction, that he (you) drop and hour of the Red/Far Red PAD night schedule and replace it with another hour of Red/Blue, i.e. going from 20/4 up to 19/5...... (...18/6... ...17/7 is about the max reduction in night length for an expected conventional 12/12 plant)".

So what I think he's saying is.. When you drop down the blue light (on time) and add PAD lighting (on time) you need to watch out for slowed growth..If you notice slow flowering then add one hour of blue light (on time) back into the schedule..But during ripening time when you turn down the blue and ramp up the PAD lighting your looking for something totally different IMO. At that point in the flower, growth has already slowed as you know. So personally I'm watching the trichs at that point (Last two weeks)...

What you should do IMO.. Is first find the PAD schedule that puts your girls into a nice full bloom.. ie.. A good 12/12 type of flowering schedule.. You will find this nice flowering 12/12 schedule using PAD somewhere in between the 17/7 - 6/18 PAD lighting schedule..Once your familiar with what your girls like as far as (full bloom flowering goes) then you can start to figure out what type of PAD ripening schedule 5/19 - 4/20 your girls will like. This way you can become familiar with both responses.. Make sense..

What I also think Sal is pointing out... You don't want to over shoot your equivalence of darkness..ie..Make your lighting schedule so your girls think it's a 10/14 or worse yet a 9/15 type of flower.. Since you (us) as humans using a PAD lighting setup can't tell how much darkness we are giving, we as growers need to pay close attention to the growth and bud formation... Especially during the strains first PAD setup. Now if it's the growers first PAD setup and the girls first PAD setup... That's quite the first date if you know what I mean.. You definitely got to feel each other out (no pun intended)..LOL

I asked him a few extra questions pertaining to your setup in the email. When he responds back I will let ya know what he said..

Remember..... Don't get frustrated using PAD.. Once you dial in the timing you will like what it can do, trust me... Until Sal dose a tread online IMO we are all stabbing in the dark so to speak... But he is coming to a tread near you soon my friend, soon..

If I didn't get what he wanted across he will email me I'm sure.. But I think I kind of coved the basics on "a longer than hoped for night length response" I hope anyway..LOL.... The question I asked him is.. Was the longer then hoped for night time due to your higher wattage 730nm in the mix.. So we will see what his answer will be.. It might take him a few days to get back to me though..

 

[dogsnova]

Re: Calling all martians...

the manual for PAD can be found in the pics section here MySpace - Temporal Photonics - 17 - Male - CHICO, California - myspace.com/temporalphotonics

that explains a lot but google is your friend and reading old posts on different forums(last 2 years) will show you how things have progressed

another jump off point, with some other links there

PAD ( RAUBER promises to consult ) - TreatingYourself.COM Online Community

bizz.... I don't think 420 allows myspace links or other forums links.. You need to PM that info to other members...Just so you know for future posts..I'm sure the mod's will remove those links and these two posts also..Sorry

 

[bizz]

Right now I'm on 6/18 PAD. After 2 days I saw calyx forming at new internodes. I think it took longer to see calyx last run which was 12/12 scrog. Last run stretch lasted about 4 weeks(harvested 10 weeks) but plants were all bent over so hard to compare exact growth, but currently seeing lots of shoots branching off of main stems. This weekend planning on taking clones and giving the plants a "lollipop hair cut" of some sort...

Looks like I can see the cola internodes starting to form, next stage is the hairs popping out and reaching up, I believe it took a good 3+ weeks last run for that to happen, altho temps were a bit colder than currently which could have slowed things down. Currently I'm at 2 weeks 6/18 PAD last 4 days under HPS, so I expect to see hairs in next 10 days... if not I'm gonna get a little worried.

I plan on going with 6/18 until ripenning phase which would be last 2 weeks, unless some growth pattern dictates otherwise...

Some things I am wondering... Currently running HPS at 600w, but when stretch stops, thinking of kicking it up to 750w/1000w. Would this be bad? Is time factor effected by the light sources intensity?

What about running/cycling black lights during HPS/blue? Since HPS is like 4.2 time factor, wouldnt this speed up the spectrum?

I kind of like the idea of .5/1.0 660/730, because the 9 hours of HPS would really push yield higher in my set up, altho then thats 9 hours HPS and 17 hours of 730... Part of my interest in this whole thing is lower power consumption, havent done the exact math, but that doesnt seem like much saving in power or efficiency, altho one would have to compare final yields to really know...

also, plant morphology... why do some leaves have 5 fingers, others 3 and others 1. What do these different leaf patterns tell me about what phase of its life cycle the plant is in.

EDIT: I also hooked up a dimmer to the black lights and have it set on the low end for now

 

[dogsnova]

Right now I'm on 6/18 PAD. After 2 days I saw calyx forming at new internodes. I think it took longer to see calyx last run which was 12/12 scrog. Last run stretch lasted about 4 weeks(harvested 10 weeks) but plants were all bent over so hard to compare exact growth, but currently seeing lots of shoots branching off of main stems. This weekend planning on taking clones and giving the plants a "lollipop hair cut" of some sort

Looks like I can see the cola internodes starting to form, next stage is the hairs popping out and reaching up, I believe it took a good 3+ weeks last run for that to happen, altho temps were a bit colder than currently which could have slowed things down. Currently I'm at 2 weeks 6/18 PAD last 4 days under HPS, so I expect to see hairs in next 10 days... if not I'm gonna get a little worried.

This is all good IMO.. I usually see hairs at two weeks with my strain under normal 12/12.. So ya that's one of the things I go by also..And normally I get stretch for two weeks. This is also something I go by when doing a PAD timing setup.. So it looks like you are starting to get a good handle on this. So we will just have to waite and see some bud porn action..If your familiar with your strain.. Then another thing that should POP out at ya is how fast the trichs start forming.. On my strain it starts a good week earlier and is putting trichs on hard by week 4. Under a normal 12/12 it would be around week 6 when the girls are putting on this much trich production.. So just something else to be looking out for.

I plan on going with 6/18 until ripening phase which would be last 2 weeks, unless some growth pattern dictates otherwise...

Yes... I think 6/18 should be good. If not and flowering looks too slow then add 1/2 hour to your blue (on time) and take away a 1/2 hour of PAD lighting and see how that works..More then likely you wont have to do this, but keep it in the back of your mind just in case.

Some things I am wondering... Currently running HPS at 600w, but when stretch stops, thinking of kicking it up to 750w/1000w. Would this be bad? Is time factor effected by the light sources intensity?

Not that I'm aware of..Just bleaching from to much LED wattage. To much HID wattage...Never heard of it..So I would say go for it.

What about running/cycling black lights during HPS/blue? Since HPS is like 4.2 time factor, wouldn't this speed up the spectrum?

Yes but if you run any inc's during HID time it needs to be clear.. Black inc's on during HID time is a complete waste of power..HID is 3.6 on the time factor..But ya your paying attention.Good job.... Clear inc's on during HID time is something in my situation I didn't feel was working very well. The HID is way to strong to get the benefit of the inc's IMO if they are both on at the same time.. This is a good question we need to ask SAL... But I just do the substitution method.. But ya I see what your talking about by wanting to get the HID's time factor down... Hell I would just like to get the HID's time factor right down to 1.8 and be done with it...LOL But I don't think it works that way..Maybe it dose and I just never asked him....

altho then that's 9 hours HPS and 17 hours of 730... Part of my interest in this whole thing is lower power consumption, havent done the exact math, but that doesn't seem like much saving in power or efficiency, altho one would have to compare final yields to really know...

No... it's 9hrs HPS and 15 PAD..Remember this timing method has a lower time factor of 1.2 not 1.4.. So 1.2 divided by 15hrs of .5/1.0 660/730 PAD lighting gives 12.5 hours worth of equivalent SID..The power is slightly higher in this setup...But like you said you would be running your HID longer..

also, plant morphology... why do some leaves have 5 fingers, others 3 and others 1. What do these different leaf patterns tell me about what phase of its life cycle the plant is in.

Ya I'm getting some variations in leaf formation also.. This is another question I asked sal about.. He did post something about this in Mothers tread. But that's been so long I forgot what he said..I need to go back and read it..my bad.. But we will see what he puts in the last email I sent him..It could be about the extra 730 spectrum in your mix and something to do with the timing in mine. I have been playing around with the timing by adding red party cfl's.. And kowing that red party cfl's have a faster time factor then straight 660. I think I'm messing with the over all time factor too much...Not sure though..Just my thoughts.

EDIT: I also hooked up a dimmer to the black lights and have it set on the low end for now

This is a good thing.. Also we will see what Sal says about this lower wattage in the beginning..