Delps 8 Hydro RDWC Gelato Autoflower 2021

Another gap in journaling. :-(

The Levoit and the "PETSPIONEER Reptile Humidifier Digital Timing Fog Machine with Double Hose & 4 Liter Reservoir, Automatic Terrarium Fogger for Reptiles/Amphibians/Herps/Vivarium" (how's that for a product name!) kept H in the 50's. Weather is still brutal - highs were in the high 80's and RH was in single digits. It'll be like that for the next week.

Gotta say, growing weed in an indoor area that's not climate controlled can be "challenging". I'd love to have a grow room but not in this lifetime. Hmm, next time around, I want to be a housecat so maybe it'll be the trip after that when I'll get an grow room.

Anyway, I took down the stems, cut them in to lengths of about 1', and got them into paper bags. I "covered" each bag with another bag and then got everything back into the tent - the bags the Pulse, Wetbird, the dehumidifier (not the Levoit*), etc. The second level of bags is sitting on the X3 - why not? The colas are pretty dry so the paper bags are just a way to buy time so that I can bag things up over the course of the next few days.

Jeff turned out to be a bust. The weird shape was because I hit it with so much light that the plant fox tailed. I made a mistake in how I handled the height difference between Jeff and Mary. I increased the PPFD to get light to Mary and that caused Jeff to foxtail. Dumb, dumb, dumb. I still spent the $125 on the light but, because I didn't have the experience/ knowledge. I failed to address the issue for long enough that I screwed up both plants. Dumb shit - over a measly $125 that I ended spending on the light anyway.

What do you do when life give you bags full of fox tailed cannabis? Burn it (one joint at a time) is an option but I'm thinking about making edibles.

Of the four plants that I've harvested in the past year, only Mary was quality. Short, compact, very easy to harvest, and yielded 181 grams of decent nugs. And that's after she got shitty light for a couple of weeks.

The other three plants? Frankly, dog shit. Very strange morphology (some of Jeff's stems were >5' long) and the plants from this summer were hit with thrips so quality took a hit there. So I'm batting .250 right now. Be not deterred! (How's that for a battle cry! :) )

And, even though Jeff turned out to be a lot less than optimal I need to get those bags out of the tent and get another grow going, pronto. There's just a bit over 3 ½ months before it gets hot (June). I should be able to get everything into Grove bags before the weekend is out so that means I can pop the Gorilla Glue autos on Saturday.


*Oh, the Levoit wasn't very helpful because I use it with an Inkbird. When the RH hits the limit, Wetbird cuts power and, unfortunately, the Levoit does not restart after the power's been cut. That's why it was in a box.

IMG_5889.jpeg
 
@Rexer , @Delps8 , @FelipeBlu

Rexer, thanks for recommending this journal. FB, thanks for all of the knowledge and insight you provided to Delps and everyone who has read this.
Delps, I am growing in a 2x3 cabinet with the same style of res and system you are using. I have experienced the pH drifts that you have and have chased res changes and pH up additions on a twice to three times a day basis. This journal has been priceless for my sanity. I started hydro one year ago. I grew outdoors in the bay area from the 70's - 90's. It is interesting how many similarities there are in our techniques. I also keep a grow log in a spreadsheet and have used SOPs, SPC, 5S, and six sigma professionally (I know you will inderstand the urge to "over-analyze before over-reacting" and then over-reacting anyway).
I have communicated with the nute manufacturer (not to be mentioned because they aren't a sponsor) about the rapid pH changes, which appear to be normal. He recommended going to a powdered form of buffer. He uses the powder and says it keeps the pH stable for a longer period of time. I just ordered some from GH. I can't vouch for this since I have not yet tried it.
As far as your LST method, fishing weights. I have been using them successfully for years. I call it part of CST (constant stress training). I use paper clips so I can increase the size of the hook as the size of the branch increases. I move them toward the end of the branch as it grows to increase the leverage applied, forcing the branch to become stronger as it deals with sway and bounce. Once in flower the weights can be moved back towards the stem as the bud weight increases, until the weights are eventually removed. The branch will support whatever the weight of the bud is without reinforcement. I have had as much as 3 ounces/branch. I have attached a photo of my current cabinet grow showing a single plant trained by CST.(I made the mistake of growing two autos in my first grow and ran out of room like you did).
I also attached a photo (the only one I have) of my last outdoor grow (mid-nineties) using CST. It yielded nearly 10 pounds. The plant was five foot above soil level and ten foot in diameter. I had coffee cans full of sinkers. I took the photo, the smiley face is about six foot tall.

Question: I performed a weekly res change, went through the pH fluctuation, 5.2-6.4-4.7 within 28 hours (I wanted to see what it did without adjustment). I adjusted for the next 36 hrs to 5.8 - 6.0 which drove the ppm up. I changed 5 gal with straight RO (I use a 16 gal res). I adjusted pH to 6.0 and the ppm is stable at 1090 (I am growing a photo-period Sativa) the pH is stable at 6.0 and there is no water consumption. This condition has been stable for 36 hrs. and I am 5 weeks into flower (1/2 way). The "Wonder Chart" (great name) says to drop the EC a little to jump start them. After reading this journal and FB's inputs, is that the direction I should go? The plants look great but still need to eat...
:morenutes:

SL1995grow600dpi250xfinal.jpg


F33D77-2.JPG
 
If that doesn’t work, try an additional decrease. Keep going until she starts up again. A plant that doesn’t drink will die.
@FelipeBlu
Hey Felipe, out of curiosity, would a change in pH (if I added up or down) trigger a feeding frenzy and start her eating again?
 
That’s an interesting question - I don’t know why it would though. Isn’t your pH around 5.8 to 6.2? That should work.
It is a solid 6.0. I was just trying to imagine a trigger. I dropped the EC 0.2 5 1/2 hrs. ago (without any effect) and another 0.3 twenty minutes ago. From 2.2 to 1.7 total. I will wait until tomorrow before trying anything else.

Thanks again :Namaste:
 
It is a solid 6.0. I was just trying to imagine a trigger. I dropped the EC 0.2 5 1/2 hrs. ago (without any effect) and another 0.3 twenty minutes ago. From 2.2 to 1.7 total. I will wait until tomorrow before trying anything else.

Thanks again :Namaste:
Hafta - thanks for dropping in and glad that my journal turned out to be useful to you. I'm sure it took some perseverance to wade through a lot of it.
I'll reply to your posting above but, before I get into that, "the dog that didn't bark" in your posting is RH. Your grow journal says that you're in Phoenix which, if correct, means that ambient RH is really low but that's a supposition. What's the RH in the cabinet?
Per @FelipeBlu, plants have to take up water to transpire so if your RH is extremely high, such as growing in a cabinet that's not being vented correctly, that could bring everything to a halt.
 
Hafta - thanks for dropping in and glad that my journal turned out to be useful to you. I'm sure it took some perseverance to wade through a lot of it.
I'll reply to your posting above but, before I get into that, "the dog that didn't bark" in your posting is RH. Your grow journal says that you're in Phoenix which, if correct, means that ambient RH is really low but that's a supposition. What's the RH in the cabinet?
Per @FelipeBlu, plants have to take up water to transpire so if your RH is extremely high, such as growing in a cabinet that's not being vented correctly, that could bring everything to a halt.
Excellent!
 
Rexer, thanks for recommending this journal. FB, thanks for all of the knowledge and insight you provided to Delps and everyone who has read this.
Hear, hear. @Rexer is like the Weed Welcome Wagon! :)
Delps, I am growing in a 2x3 cabinet with the same style of res and system you are using. I have experienced the pH drifts that you have and have chased res changes and pH up additions on a twice to three times a day basis. This journal has been priceless for my sanity. I started hydro one year ago. I grew outdoors in the bay area from the 70's - 90's. It is interesting how many similarities there are in our techniques. I also keep a grow log in a spreadsheet and have used SOPs, SPC, 5S, and six sigma professionally (I know you will inderstand the urge to "over-analyze before over-reacting" and then over-reacting anyway).
My Lord, someone else who write as much as I do. I hope the mods don't find out…

SP for the win, eh! The price choked me when I bought it but I was paying for expertise and time savings.

A lot of my postings were documentation rather than information-seeking so I'm glad it was helpful.

pH swings were driving me nutso and FB talked me off the metaphorical ledge. He also educated me on the basics of nutrient composition analysis - very helpful.

OK - SOP's, SPC, 5S and 6 Sigma — business consulting? More will be revealed, I'll assume.

Excel does OK for journaling but it's a bit of a pain to use for text. Top marks for adhoc stuff. Tabs in my journal - Commentary, Events, PPFD Distribution, X3 PPFD Detail, Issues, Calculations, Plant Yield.
Lessons learned for the Commentary tab - Actions taken are bold so as to make it easy to see them when scanning the text.

Headings in the Commentary tab:
Day #- contains a few formulas including =IF(B2<>"",B2-sproutDate,"") and a few to display weeks above ground, weeks in growth stage, etc.
Date
Time
Comment
Level - water level in mm. I use a steel ruler embedded in a 5" cork
Used - water consumed
PPM
pH
PPFD - not a structured format. I use a PAR meter so I often record the very different readings from the various plants
DLI - calculation
WC - the WonderChart TLA - F(alling) or R(ising) for water level, EC, and pH. I've attached Son of WC and also the one for plants that aren't taking up water.

70's - 90's in SF - What an amazing time and place! Great cannabis, no question, but, even though I've been in CA for almost 20 years, the more I learn of what it was like here, the more I wish I'd had a chance to experience it.

"over analyzing" - hard for me not too. Lots to learn by trial and error, from other growers, and new research being published as the industry matures. I'll be starting my fourth grow any day now and I'm looking at things very differently now than I was 12 months ago. I don't know if I'll surrender my "helicopter-plant-daddy license" but just the two recent grows have been very valuable in terms of knowing what to expect.

I have communicated with the nute manufacturer (not to be mentioned because they aren't a sponsor) about the rapid pH changes, which appear to be normal. He recommended going to a powdered form of buffer. He uses the powder and says it keeps the pH stable for a longer period of time. I just ordered some from GH. I can't vouch for this since I have not yet tried it.
What product was that?

As far as your LST method, fishing weights. I have been using them successfully for years. I call it part of CST (constant stress training). I use paper clips so I can increase the size of the hook as the size of the branch increases. I move them toward the end of the branch as it grows to increase the leverage applied, forcing the branch to become stronger as it deals with sway and bounce. Once in flower the weights can be moved back towards the stem as the bud weight increases, until the weights are eventually removed. The branch will support whatever the weight of the bud is without reinforcement. I have had as much as 3 ounces/branch. I have attached a photo of my current cabinet grow showing a single plant trained by CST.(I made the mistake of growing two autos in my first grow and ran out of room like you did).
I also attached a photo (the only one I have) of my last outdoor grow (mid-nineties) using CST. It yielded nearly 10 pounds. The plant was five foot above soil level and ten foot in diameter. I had coffee cans full of sinkers. I took the photo, the smiley face is about six foot tall.
Paper clips - hadn't thought of that. In my defense, I don't use paper. OTOH, I don't fish yet I'm using fishing weights.
I ended up buying show curtain type hooks but I can see the attraction to paper clips in that they're more malleable. Thanks for passing that along.

"CST" - good TLA.

I'll continue to use the fishing weights. Jeff, the big plant, was…abnormal. The other three plants ended up being very well shaped, thanks to using fishing weights. Unfortunately, I had to cull two of those three. Mary, the last one standing, yielded 220+ grams with 181 grams being very nice nugs. Under the conditions, that's a good yield and she was very easy to harvest due to the short and wide stature. One of my goals for the next grow is have both plants ("The counting shall be two and two shall be the counting.") with that same shape and without something like Jeff hulking over them, I'd expect that my yield improve.

That plant nothing short of amazing. Yes, the climate is well suited but you knocked it out of the park with LST. Coffee cans full of sinkers! I think the most I had was 4 oz but, as you've said (I think it was in your journal), the branches were very strong.

And you ended up with ≈ 10 pounds. Wow. From your journal, that lasted 5 years and no loss in quality. Really something.

I read a posting on another site about a grower in LA who grows outdoors. It's a little dicey because he's in the city limits so he needs to be careful about theft but, like you did, he's getting incredible results grow outside.

Question: I performed a weekly res change, went through the pH fluctuation, 5.2-6.4-4.7 within 28 hours (I wanted to see what it did without adjustment). I adjusted for the next 36 hrs to 5.8 - 6.0 which drove the ppm up. I changed 5 gal with straight RO (I use a 16 gal res). I adjusted pH to 6.0 and the ppm is stable at 1090 (I am growing a photo-period Sativa) the pH is stable at 6.0 and there is no water consumption. This condition has been stable for 36 hrs. and I am 5 weeks into flower (1/2 way). The "Wonder Chart" (great name) says to drop the EC a little to jump start them. After reading this journal and FB's inputs, is that the direction I should go? The plants look great but still need to eat...
:morenutes:
Per FB, below, water is the big deal. Cannabis will fare well for a while without nutes (ref. the practice of "flushing" prior to harvest) but if they're not taking up water, they're not transpiring and that's very no bueno.

In addition to advice from FB, check out the second attachment.
Son of Wonder Chart.png


Son of WC, not Drinking.jpeg
 
Hafta - thanks for dropping in and glad that my journal turned out to be useful to you. I'm sure it took some perseverance to wade through a lot of it.
I'll reply to your posting above but, before I get into that, "the dog that didn't bark" in your posting is RH. Your grow journal says that you're in Phoenix which, if correct, means that ambient RH is really low but that's a supposition. What's the RH in the cabinet?
Per @FelipeBlu, plants have to take up water to transpire so if your RH is extremely high, such as growing in a cabinet that's not being vented correctly, that could bring everything to a halt.
Good point. The RH is consistently 38 - 42%. I have two speed controlled exhaust fans in the cabinet. During veg I was able to maintain about 50% with reduced flow and placing water in the groove on the res lid (it's similar to your lid).
I am currently in the fifth week of flower so I maintain around 40%. I also have two circulating fans around and through the canopy.
 
@Delps8 ,
OK - SOP's, SPC, 5S and 6 Sigma — business consulting? More will be revealed, I'll assume.
Semiconductor Equipment Engineer (ion implanters, cryogenics, that type of BS), Maintenance Mgr. for a Fortune 500 Distribution Center, Plant Engineer for a Cosmetic manufacturing plant.
What product was that?
General Hydroponics Powdered pH up. 1 kilo bag.
And you ended up with ≈ 10 pounds. Wow. From your journal, that lasted 5 years and no loss in quality. Really something.
Curing and storing is critical.
Thanks for the second chart.
 
@FelipeBlu , @Delps8
There was no change this morning so I dropped the pH to 5.0 for five hours, pH and ppm ( easier to see minor changes) stayed solid. Increased pH to 6.3, same thing (the pH changed and the ppm went up slightly due to the buffers). I am performing a res change. I typically flush the system for five hours with both the irrigation running (1/4" drip at each of 16 baskets) and a recirculating pump (used for internal mixing and for res changes).
Any suggestions to aid in preventing lockout before I add nutes at 50% of recommended concentration. My target ppm will be 600 - 650.
 
@FelipeBlu ,
The res change on 2/1 initial ppm 1080, chasing pH caused ppm rise every addition. Also added CalMag with added RO
Changed res on 2/5, ppm had reached 1500. Initial ppm after change 1210. Added pH up and CalMag w/H2O until 1500
Changed res 2/11. Initial ppm 1250 ppm (still following feed chart) same results
Changed res 2/18. Tried 900 ppm. Same drifting. Diluted to 800ppm. Same. 2/23 increased to 1000ppm. Same
Changed res 2/25 target 1300 (per feed chart).Ppm drifted to 1440, changed 5 gal to 1060.Same pH lower and ppm higher.Diluted to 1000 on 2/28. Same. Still chasing pH with pH up 5.4 - 6.2 depending on time of day (hard to add during lights out. NUTRIENT LOCKOUT. No pH change, no water used, no ppm change.

The increase over the past several has been maybe as much as .1 - .2 EC (100 - 200 ppm)
 
Good point. The RH is consistently 38 - 42%. I have two speed controlled exhaust fans in the cabinet. During veg I was able to maintain about 50% with reduced flow and placing water in the groove on the res lid (it's similar to your lid).
I am currently in the fifth week of flower so I maintain around 40%. I also have two circulating fans around and through the canopy.
Good numbers - RH is a bit low but "within normal range".
 
Semiconductor Equipment Engineer (ion implanters, cryogenics, that type of BS), Maintenance Mgr. for a Fortune 500 Distribution Center, Plant Engineer for a Cosmetic manufacturing plant.
An an actual engineer and then moved into management, Straddling both worlds is a challenge. Well done.

Thanks for the second chart.
My pleasure.

RH is a significant influence on transpiration and that, I suspect, could impact nutrient uptake but, at most, as a secondary effect. pH in the res would be impacted by exchange of the nutrient chemicals between the roots and the nutrient water in the res. That's ion/cation exchange and way beyond my ken. I did bio and physics to O level (British system) but did dropped chemistry after 11th grade. I've regretted that more than once. :-(
 
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