How do I save these plants?

[DarionOzb]

Ocean Forest? Do not pH!
I used to use that (I use Iowa soil with perlite now; a heck of a lot cheaper and I usually need to dig a hole to empty my burn barrel anyway) and with perlite, it drains very well.
You absolutely do not need to pH it. It self-buffers fertilizer just like soil does in your garden.
Throw away your strips. Definitely do not waste money on Fox Farm's flushes. If you water to a nice runoff there is no need to flush. If you don't water to runoff then you do (and get the "Bounceback" or whatever it is called to help recovery from the flush) and you need to start watering to runoff so you do not need to do it again.
I used to use FF's Rasta's line with FFOF and it grew very nice weed BTW. Now it's Iowa soil and Kelp4Less's line with some added Triacontanol (Humbolt County's Snow Storm's active ingredient) and Chitosan Oligosaccharide (Bud factor X's active ingredient) as root drenches (you can spray it on but I don't spray stuff on what I smoke despite everyone's reassurances it won't be there at harvest).

Well it was in Happy frog this whole time. Just now transplanted to ocean forest.

I usually dont water with runoff. But i did a few times with these girls. Im confused on runoff though, do i only want that with watering? Or do i want runoff when feeding my plant as well? Cuz i consider watering and feeding two different things so i get confused by what ppl mean. Thnks for the new soil recommendation, im always up for saving money!

 

[BigD13]

I try to get 10-20% run off each time I water, whether it is just water or water with nutes. One way to keep from over watering is to weigh your pots before and after you water. I know that may sound crazy, but I do it every time. When I first transplant, I weigh them to get my “base number”. I keep a log so I know when to water. I also collect and measure my run off so I know if I’ve watered enough, but also to know how much nute solution I need to mix up for the next time. My reasoning for that is; if I pay attention to the small things and make an extra effort, I wont run into big problems.

Below is a link about whether you need to pH or not.

Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

Greetings all! I recently had a running email conversation with the "Grower Services & Product Development Director" at ProMix (aka Premier Tech). I began the conversation by posting a question on their website, asking if I should be treating ProMix HP as soil or soil-less when mixing...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Elvin]

Well it was in Happy frog this whole time. Just now transplanted to ocean forest.

I usually dont water with runoff. But i did a few times with these girls. Im confused on runoff though, do i only want that with watering? Or do i want runoff when feeding my plant as well? Cuz i consider watering and feeding two different things so i get confused by what ppl mean. Thnks for the new soil recommendation, im always up for saving money!

No runoff? Then you likely have issues with salt accumulation if that root ball is large from the previous pot. Fox Farm nutes are really just a bunch of salts mixed in water. That's how others undercut them in price; shipping water is costly and the customer is the one who pays the extra cost.
The easiest (if the old lady is understanding) way to flush is to put them in a shower and let the water run.
Get that salt out and either get them on wire racks in the tent to drain in the future (then pump the water out of the tent tray) or get some saucers (Menards have cheap clear plastic ones) and suck the water out of those each time. Do not let the plant retake that water back up.
Or if you are like me; use carriage bolts (and fender washers and nuts) as the legs on a wire shelf cut to size, as a raised floor in my tent and just point the air intake duct hose at the water and let the air flow evaporate it. The tent gets messy looking but who cares?
Not watering to runoff is likely your biggest issue right now.
Hopefully you added 30% perlite because FFOF will get drainage issues if your roots get all-encompassing in the bag. Water will flow but a little more slowly through it.

 

[013]

Add nutes first always according to the manufacturers directions then adjust ph if you choose to do so however soil grows do not necessarily require ph adjustment.

You missed the point, water fast or slow, but slower is better. The op’s real problem wasn’t too much water at once but watering too frequently. In his case the topsoil was probably dry but the soil underneath is probably hard pan and too wet & too compressed. If the soil was decent & tilled his plant roots would have hooked up by now but they haven't, But the real issue is waiting several days before ever watering again, wait until the soil dries out completely and the plant shows wilt. If you stick a finger in the pot, the top is dry but the bottom is still wet, this means you haven’t waited long enough yet. Watch the leaves look for wilt, then water to runoff. Once you have a healthy seedling of 5 to 7 nodes you can begin to slowly work the wet dry cycle, do this throughout veg. Most farm crops do not have steady water or irrigation every week or month, yet even in dry seasons our farm crops are produced.

This is for the veg cycle only. Again when soil is dry plant builds fine root hairs to find water. Plants build their roots in veg cycle but in flower cycle they no longer build new roots, they use existing roots to support flower. Upcan & wet dry are used together to build monster rootball & giant trunks - I fail to see how that is a negative for any plant.

You can choose to not utilize this but exploiting the wet dry cycle & upcan transplants are both useful tools to help accelerate rapid growth and make for easy, seamless transplants.

For context... my name is Bob & I’m a recent plantaholic... nah man. I’m a soil grower mostly doing photoperiods. but I think this can be used successfully for autos as well,

 

[Elvin]

Add nutes first always according to the manufacturers directions then adjust ph if you choose to do so however soil grows do not necessarily require ph adjustment.

You missed the point, water fast or slow, but slower is better. The op’s real problem wasn’t too much water at once but watering too frequently. In his case the topsoil was probably dry but the soil underneath is probably hard pan and too wet & too compressed. If the soil was decent & tilled his plant roots would have hooked up by now but they haven't, But the real issue is waiting several days before ever watering again, wait until the soil dries out completely and the plant shows wilt. If you stick a finger in the pot, the top is dry but the bottom is still wet, this means you haven’t waited long enough yet. Watch the leaves look for wilt, then water to runoff. Once you have a healthy seedling of 5 to 7 nodes you can begin to slowly work the wet dry cycle, do this throughout veg. Most farm crops do not have steady water or irrigation every week or month, yet even in dry seasons our farm crops are produced.

This is for the veg cycle only. Again when soil is dry plant builds fine root hairs to find water. Plants build their roots in veg cycle but in flower cycle they no longer build new roots, they use existing roots to support flower. Upcan & wet dry are used together to build monster rootball & giant trunks - I fail to see how that is a negative for any plant.

You can choose to not utilize this but exploiting the wet dry cycle & upcan transplants are both useful tools to help accelerate rapid growth and make for easy, seamless transplants.

For context... my name is Bob & I’m a recent plantaholic... nah man. I’m a soil grower mostly doing photoperiods. but I think this can be used successfully for autos as well,

Soil self-buffers period. You do not need to pH when soil buffers as it does. Believe what you want but any Soil textbook fully explains this.
A good draining soil does not get water-logged. You can water daily if it drains properly but there is no need to do so because a good soil should also retain water (and the bags should be big enough that the plant does need water in only a day's time).
Watering at a normal rate that commercial growers use will not harm the plant; I'm sorry but those of you that want to water by dripps are just wasting time in my opinion.
I run bags that are over 8 gallons and have more than ten of them. If I water as if that post suggests I'd be watering for hours each day.
It will not harm a thing to dump a gallon of water on a plant so that the lip of my bag holds it for the few seconds it takes to drain into the soil.
This occurs almost every time it rains outside does it not? How does mimicking what does not harm outside, make it hurt inside?
Yes, you want the roots throughout; I have no problems in that regard. In fact the most important thing the plant needs to get that is a well draining soil that also holds water. The holding of the water is more "wet" the lower you go (gravity plays a big role in that) and the roots seek the wetness out.

 

[013]

Whether you pour 1 cup or 5 cups it soaks right in and runs off. It’s nearly impossible to water too much at once because it just runs off, but it is very possible to water too frequently, there is a huge difference.

95 % of the worlds harvest occur without irrigation. It does not rain every week when crops are in the field. They can grow without water because of the water vapor held in the soil. If you think rain brings our crops then you are mistaken. Our crops come in spite of the rain, yes severe drought impacts size of harvest.

I know about soil buffers and well drained soil, It’s not about waterlogged soil either, none of that
applies here. Once they are established plants beyond 5 or 6 pairs.... there is no need to water every couple of days in veg cycle. It’s that simple.

Exploiting the wet dry cycle in veg is a tool, it stresses the plant to build roots. It’s another a form of training no different than lst or topping except we are depriving the plant of water to build more roots, bigger roots, better roots.

It’s rootball growing. Grow a monster rootball & that rootball will deliver up a nice big plant.

I’m not gonna argue - was just trying to help the op.

 

[DarionOzb]

Thanks you guys for all the helpful information! Everyone grows their own way and has different results! No one way is better i think because it always depends.

I will take all the information u guys have given me and apply it to my babiez. Hopefully i can save them, i would rly like to be able to flower this plant out.

On another note, my plants have looked like this all day -> *refer to picture * <- and idk why. They're in their new homes and i havent watered them at all, just moistened the soil a little bit...so why do they look like this?

 

[Elvin]

Why are you so scared to water the things? Get a gallon watering can, mix up a gallon of nutes and dump the whole thing on one plant and repeat.
Plants need water and you need to put enough water on each so at least a quart of water runs out if not more. A gallon on each will do it and most instructions for nutes are per gallon anyway.Then when they start filling light it is time to water again. most do 1 time nutes next two times are clear water (I just use my water wand directly instead of a can and just let the water run until it comes out the bottom) then it's nutes again (unless you are supplementing with tri or chito like I do, then those might need to be done each time depending on what it is).

 

[DarionOzb]

Why are you so scared to water the things? Get a gallon watering can, mix up a gallon of nutes and dump the whole thing on one plant and repeat.
Plants need water and you need to put enough water on each so at least a quart of water runs out if not more. A gallon on each will do it and most instructions for nutes are per gallon anyway.Then when they start filling light it is time to water again. most do 1 time nutes next two times are clear water (I just use my water wand directly instead of a can and just let the water run until it comes out the bottom) then it's nutes again (unless you are supplementing with tri or chito like I do, then those might need to be done each time depending on what it is).

Prolly cuz im a noob xD lmao. Even though i know hydroponics exist*, im still afraid to water my plants! I'll read Emyila's or w/e's link before i water. She commented on my 1st grows post and we kinda got into it, 420Mag has deleted most of the comments by now, but if everyone keeps refering to tht link ill go ahead and read it. Then dump at least 1 gal per plant so i can know the darn things arent thirsty.

 

[BigD13]

Watering With The BLT Method

Damn I really love a toasted BLT sandwich, And a tall glass of iced tea on ice to go with it! :cheesygrinsmiley: You may, or may not have come across this as you’ve been reading the fine journals here at:420: Upon request I’ve decided to make a thread specifically for the BLT Method. Not only...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Elvin]

Prolly cuz im a noob xD lmao. Even though i know hydroponics exist*, im still afraid to water my plants! I'll read Emyila's or w/e's link before i water. She commented on my 1st grows post and we kinda got into it, 420Mag has deleted most of the comments by now, but if everyone keeps refering to tht link ill go ahead and read it. Then dump at least 1 gal per plant so i can know the darn things arent thirsty.

Her method will get it watered but takes longer; my method gets it watered as well (if done with just slight care does not harm a thing) but you'll gain more time to do other things with mine. Pick one or the other but get them watered and keep them watered.
Despite what you have read here; if your soil drains you can't overwater. FFOF really does need an addition of 30% perlite so the water drops almost immediately otherwise that gallon will take 2-3 minutes to get into it instead of much less. Just make sure water comes out the bottom. But in the end it will drain and it is really hard to overwater the plant unless you water serveral times a day.
Lift them just before watering to get an idea of what they weigh when needing watering that way you can lift to know when to water next. Usually, for the most part, 1 gallon per 7 gallon bag can be done every other day w/o issues. Also follow the fert instructions closely until you are confident you can go off. Do not listen to the fools and their "do 1/2 or 1/4 nutes"; follow the instructions, not weed forum nonsense.
Because you have not been watering to runoff you do need a flush, but if you water to runoff afterward you'll be able to forgo them.
Flushing prior to chop for flavor is pointless in a soil grow.
Just how does one flush all nutrients from soil?
You can't.

 

[013]

I need to drop an apology to Darion for mucking up he’s thread and to Elvin for the nastiness I imposed. Agree disagree whatever I should have simply dropped out of the conversation.

I am sorry for being an asshole!

More personally to Elvin, dude I really screwed the pooch. I should never have jumped so hard there with the insults. I hope in a few minutes you can understand my brain malfunction.

Anyway I’m a chronic & acute pain patient. I’ve had a shitload of injuries and I’ve been on pain management for looong long time. I have been getting help and it’s not working!!! I came here to further that getting help effort. I don’t need to be getting stoned all the time but pain reduction would be really welcome.

Part of what lead to the conflict is on another grow I was helping with they had greenhouse with hardpan soil & promix topping that had been watered to death. I got those significant details 200% crossed up with Darion’s grow.

I’m (very much mistakenly thinking) why is this Elvin going on and on about a well drained soil.... it’s hardpan anyone can see that.

Elvin correctly is saying it’s well drained soil & why is this whacky dude talking about hardpan?

If that’s not embarrassing enough I misread his reply to the op and went off on another tirade.

I belive in spirited debate obviously but should not have taken it so far as to attack Elvin.

For that I am wrong and truly sorry!!

 

[Kanda]

I think they just need a little time to adjust to their new home. I’m thinking they were pot bound being 4 months vegging in last space? Just give them a little time and they should straighten out.
The other members have given great advice on watering. I agree that you can’t water too much, just too often. Slower is better as it doesn’t create channels in the soil.

 

[DarionOzb]

I need to drop an apology to Darion for mucking up he’s thread and to Elvin for the nastiness I imposed. Agree disagree whatever I should have simply dropped out of the conversation.

I am sorry for being an asshole!

More personally to Elvin, dude I really screwed the pooch. I should never have jumped so hard there with the insults. I hope in a few minutes you can understand my brain malfunction.

Anyway I’m a chronic & acute pain patient. I’ve had a shitload of injuries and I’ve been on pain management for looong long time. I have been getting help and it’s not working!!! I came here to further that getting help effort. I don’t need to be getting stoned all the time but pain reduction would be really welcome.

Part of what lead to the conflict is on another grow I was helping with they had greenhouse with hardpan soil & promix topping that had been watered to death. I got those significant details 200% crossed up with Darion’s grow.

I’m (very much mistakenly thinking) why is this Elvin going on and on about a well drained soil.... it’s hardpan anyone can see that.

Elvin correctly is saying it’s well drained soil & why is this whacky dude talking about hardpan?

If that’s not embarrassing enough I misread his reply to the op and went off on another tirade.

I belive in spirited debate obviously but should not have taken it so far as to attack Elvin.

For that I am wrong and truly sorry!!

All good man! Like i said, i got into with Emyila on my very first post a year back. Talk about embarrassing! Little did I know shes an Og on this forum xD we all get heated on the internet and especially if we misread something.

Appreciate your information too though!
The more I know the better!

 

[DonkeyDick]

I need to drop an apology to Darion for mucking up he’s thread and to Elvin for the nastiness I imposed. Agree disagree whatever I should have simply dropped out of the conversation.

I am sorry for being an asshole!

More personally to Elvin, dude I really screwed the pooch. I should never have jumped so hard there with the insults. I hope in a few minutes you can understand my brain malfunction.

Anyway I’m a chronic & acute pain patient. I’ve had a shitload of injuries and I’ve been on pain management for looong long time. I have been getting help and it’s not working!!! I came here to further that getting help effort. I don’t need to be getting stoned all the time but pain reduction would be really welcome.

Part of what lead to the conflict is on another grow I was helping with they had greenhouse with hardpan soil & promix topping that had been watered to death. I got those significant details 200% crossed up with Darion’s grow.

I’m (very much mistakenly thinking) why is this Elvin going on and on about a well drained soil.... it’s hardpan anyone can see that.

Elvin correctly is saying it’s well drained soil & why is this whacky dude talking about hardpan?

If that’s not embarrassing enough I misread his reply to the op and went off on another tirade.

I belive in spirited debate obviously but should not have taken it so far as to attack Elvin.

For that I am wrong and truly sorry!!

Well done 013 good to see you turn around with this. Eating crow sometimes sticks in the craw, as it were, but that reads like a legit mea culpa.
Pain sucks. Sucks the damn life out of ya some days. We muddle on.

 

[Elvin]

I need to drop an apology to Darion for mucking up he’s thread and to Elvin for the nastiness I imposed. Agree disagree whatever I should have simply dropped out of the conversation.

I am sorry for being an asshole!

More personally to Elvin, dude I really screwed the pooch. I should never have jumped so hard there with the insults. I hope in a few minutes you can understand my brain malfunction.

Anyway I’m a chronic & acute pain patient. I’ve had a shitload of injuries and I’ve been on pain management for looong long time. I have been getting help and it’s not working!!! I came here to further that getting help effort. I don’t need to be getting stoned all the time but pain reduction would be really welcome.

Part of what lead to the conflict is on another grow I was helping with they had greenhouse with hardpan soil & promix topping that had been watered to death. I got those significant details 200% crossed up with Darion’s grow.

I’m (very much mistakenly thinking) why is this Elvin going on and on about a well drained soil.... it’s hardpan anyone can see that.

Elvin correctly is saying it’s well drained soil & why is this whacky dude talking about hardpan?

If that’s not embarrassing enough I misread his reply to the op and went off on another tirade.

I belive in spirited debate obviously but should not have taken it so far as to attack Elvin.

For that I am wrong and truly sorry!!

Thank you; one observation though; if he flushes that he'll stop/reverse the "hardpan" if present. Hardpan is easily reversible with a flush which is why I'm not concerned and you may have taken my lack of concern as ignoring it completely.
FFOF without perlite will drain (albeit more slowly than with 30% perlite). If he did add the needed pelite in sufficient quantities while it may look hardpanned it would be really hard to have that happen to the point where nothing comes out.
I'm leaning towards a possible hardpan (who knows about perlite additions; the flush will take care of if present) with a huge accumulation of salt because no runoff was done at watering.
He does need the flush that FF recommends periodically in their feeding chart but as long as he uses enough water going forward (20% runnoff minimum to prevent salt accumulation) and enough ferts he'll be OK; my concern is he's restricting water mistakenly and he may be still using partial ferts. There are actually people elsewhere on 420 talking about 1/2 fets and they just did their final repot!! He may have read that and believe it was correct as was minimal water.
That restricted water with the resulting salt accumulation is likely the biggest issue he has along with that hardpan and the usual insufficient light; we all know a rated 600 watt blurple is around 240 actual watts and that includes that watt robbing cooling fan. in other words if you grow as if you have 600 watts you will be disappointed because you really do not have 600 watts no matter what the light manufacturer claims.
Fortunately, all are fixable and it is early in the grow.

 

[013]

If I’m big enough to chew a man’s ass & totally get it wrong, then yes sir I’m big enough to eat that crow!!

As far as the pain, the point I failed to make was I go for couple days with no sleep, which obviously is not healthy. Regardless I am responsible for my words & actions and I should not have taken it to that level.

Even if I was way off base you gotta respect my passion and willingness to duke it out. Damn the torpedoes... full steam ahead!!!

Enough said, let’s get back to growing....

 

[VanIslandConnoisseur]

fuck sakes, givin me anxiety, may the lord help your wrong -pathed-ass

 

[Elvin]

"If I’m big enough to chew a man’s ass & totally get it wrong, then yes sir I’m big enough to eat that crow!!

As far as the pain, the point I failed to make was I go for couple days with no sleep, which obviously is not healthy. Regardless I am responsible for my words & actions and I should not have taken it to that level.

Even if I was way off base you gotta respect my passion and willingness to duke it out. Damn the torpedoes... full steam ahead!!!

Enough said, let’s get back to growing...."
[/QUOTE]
You need to take the passion and join me in attacking the Alt Reich loons elsewhere on the net. They hate you no matter if you are a Republican or a Democrat and use Wikipedia as their go-to reference source. They are great fun to get all worked up in their clueless loneliness in their mom's basements.
In all seriousness; no harm, no foul. Have a nice day!!!

 

[DonkeyDick]

As far as the pain, the point I failed to make was I go for couple days with no sleep, which obviously is not healthy.

We all have our own stories and yes, all this has overtaken the OP’s intentions here. Personally, I haven’t had more than two hours sleep at once in over a year and I ride that backspace key like a stolen bicycle.
I think we find when we look around that most of us are here for our health one way or another.

Damn the torpedoes...

I miss Tom Petty

They are great fun to get all worked up in their clueless loneliness in their mom's basements.

The things people do for sport!
At least you’re not hurting anyone (unlike the meatheads you harass). Fair play. Go get ‘em..

Back on topic (ish). I am only flipping my 2c because 420 mag is so, so uh!
Look, this morning I am smoking CBD and taking cannameds for pain management that I have to make because of where I (barely!) live. For me and thousands of others this is a last refuge.
I would not have joined this community if I had read some of these exchanges over a year ago when I was still lurking (and even less well).
You know. When words are all we have between us (and they are) they matter, they really do.

Be kind.