How To: 10oz per plant perpetual indoors

Only read the first few bits - Want to say: Thank You!
I can tell you have "ridden the rodeo" LOL. This kind of advice is invaluable.
This is going to make great reading....
 
TheCapn said:
Hi Wreched, thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum. I can see how this might have been a little confusing. For this growing method, let's review.

I'll talk about vegetative growth first:
You will want to go to the store and get a few sizes of regular nursery pots, from small, up to the 3.5 gallon pot. The 3.5 gal pot will be the one you flower in; it fits perfectly in side the 5 gallon bucket. Transplant up to a bigger size, when the pot starts to get root bound. This builds up a big root mass. If you start in the big pot, roots just go to the sides and bottom and then start circling. It is not really important how your irrigate your plants during vegetative growth. They only need to be watered once a day. You can hand water them, rig up a top feed system on a timer, or you can do flood and drain, like the diagram I showed. Normally, I either hand water once a day in the mornings, or I do the flood and drain system. When I hand water, I use fresh nutrient water and let the water drain to waste (I don't re-use the water again). Then seems to produce the fastest growth. The problem with F&D, is that it requires a big volume of water to fill up the flood tray. But the good part about F&D or the top feed hose system, is that you can leave your grow for a week at a time. Either way, don't make it complicated. Pretend the grow cubes are dirt. Grow your plants in it and water them generously once a day. After your seedlings get some size to them (about 8" tall) they will REALLY take off exponentially. Use a good growth formula at no more than 500ppm. For even better growth, use some kind of "mycos" or beneficial bacteria, and you will build up a healthy root mass that will literally grow inches a day. Here in this picture, you can see I'm just watering these by hand once a day. I have a little tray under the big pot and I let about 1/8" of water accumulate in the tray. I only do that when the plants are big and sucking in a lot of water per day. That is the 3.5 gal pot that fits inside the 5 gal bucket. In this picture to the left you an also see I have a plant sitting in a net pot, on a 5 gal bucket. I use the bucket to get the plant closer to the light.

Veg113.jpg


Here is another picture where I've rigged up little top feed hoses from the hardware store. A water pump is turned on from a timer for 15 mins every morning.
vegtray.jpg


You can do it any way you want. The goal is to saturate the rockwool grow cubes once a day.

Once your plant is in the 3.5 gal bucket and it's at least 30" in diameter, it's time to flower. Rig up your bucket with your input and output holes and test it out. Water pumps INTO the bottom, flows out the top.

ebbandFlowBucket.jpg

Bucket4.jpg


About your reservoir question. Yes, you can run multiple plants from one res. However, if you are running monster 4ft x 4ft plants, you will need longer hoses, and you need to make sure the bucket drains back to the reservoir well. If it doesn't drain fast enough, your res will overflow. If you only have a 10gal res and you are using 5 gal buckets, you can use two water pumps and put them on separate timers (other wise you may not have enough water volume to fill buckets). This saves money on nutrients as well. Remember, big plants in flower will use a gallon a day. Good luck with it! I know it is a lot of information to take it at once. Even if you are a noob, if you follow these steps in this thread, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to pull off a 10oz plant. My record is 20oz using this method, with 12 oz being the norm.
Reservoirs3.jpg


cokebottle.jpg
Click to expand...

Capn thank you! I honestly can't thank you enough, you've been such a great help and I am really exited for my grow now. You inspire my friend you truly do. A lot of this was over whelming at first where to start what to grow with but I see now lol it's all coming together. I have everything together just waiting for seeds to come in. I'll be doing a 2 plant op and from reading and reading ill be doing scrog and topping and super cropping.

One last question and I swear I'll leave you alone hahaha. How often can one top plants? I see multiple answers ranging from endless to twice max. How often is good and how many times is bad?

Thanks again cap.
 
>>>One last question and I swear I'll leave you alone hahaha. How often can one top plants? I see multiple answers ranging from endless to twice max. How often is good and how many times is bad?

Based on the reading above you should top your plant only in veg and restrain from any additional topping, at minimum, one week prior to changing the light schedule to 12/12. This is to avoid any additional stress for the plant to redirect all its energy into healing itself rather than starting to produce bud, slowing bud production thus minimizing yield.

So all in all, from what I understand from all of Capn's articles is that you may continue to top as much as you want as long as you are still in vegetative growth. HERE'S another useful article by TheCapn that explains how vegetative growth time can exponentially affect yield amount.

Good Luck ;)
 
Nice ebb and flow system. I've been using Powergrowers (larger version of the GH waterfarm) with airstones in the bottom. Can't wait to test that one. Thanks for the info and all your hard work.
 
I just so happen to be building my ebb& flow bucket, and I had one thought before I started drilling into my five gallon buckets. Do you purposely put the intake hike in the side of the bucket? And wouldn't that allow excess nutrient water to be evaporated at the bottom of the 5 gal?

Could I also be able to run my intake from the bottom of the 5 gal to give added pressure to my 210 gph pump?
 
AfricanGrower said:
I just so happen to be building my ebb& flow bucket, and I had one thought before I started drilling into my five gallon buckets. Do you purposely put the intake hike in the side of the bucket? And wouldn't that allow excess nutrient water to be evaporated at the bottom of the 5 gal?

Could I also be able to run my intake from the bottom of the 5 gal to give added pressure to my 210 gph pump?
Click to expand...

The input goes in the bottom. The water pump, pumps water in, and it floods the bucket and media, and then flows out the top. Do it just like this picture and you will be fine. However if there is too much flow, the bucket might not drain fast enough out the 3/4" output. On the inside of the bucket, on the output, make sure you use the little screen that comes with the ebb and flow kit. YOu may need to cut it down a little bit. Post a pic of how you're doing it so I can check it out.

ebbandFlowBucket.jpg
 
Looks great, AG. I see what you meant about the "intake bottom" question now. You can put the input in the bottom of the bucket or the side. Doesn't matter. I suppose it would drain a little better if you have it in the bottom, but won't affect the pressure. I think this will be a perfect set up. Are you going to use the 3.5 gal nursery pot inside the 5 gal bucket?
 
>>>Doesn't matter. I suppose it would drain a little better if you have it in the bottom, but won't affect the pressure.

Okay that sounds good. So I am predicting there's going to be about a quart of remaining run off at the bottom of the bucket, will this evaporate between waterings or will I have to manually drain this every so often?

>>>Are you going to use the 3.5 gal nursery pot inside the 5 gal bucket?

I had bought a 3.5 gallon nursing pot on eBay, but it ended up being about an inch smaller in circumference than the 5 gal bucket. It clearly says 3.5 but it has the #3 marked on it(I remember you saying it should be #5). I might just use wire to suspend the nursery pot and seal it with light proofing tape.
 
That sucks about the pot being too small. Or check lowes, sometimes they have that #5 size. Or here's a better idea. Lowes has that 5gal bucket lid for $1.50. Get that, then cut a giant hole in the lid, and then put the lid on the bucket, so it will act as a little frame around the nursery pot to hold it up.

I've been known to walk aimlessly around the hardware stores with random buckets and planters... looking for what will work best!

The water that is left in the bottom of the bucket won't harm anything. As long as you're flooding a few times a day that water wont grow anaerobic bacteria.
 
Hblack34242 said:
With one water pump, how many flood and drain buckets can I use? Have one pump dedicated to just one bucket is not very efficient imo.
Click to expand...

welcome hblack,

Technically you could use one water pump on several buckets. But remember with this growing style, the most you would probably do is 2 buckets. Since each plant takes up a 4x4 space. If you want to grow MANY plants in a small area, it is more efficient to buy a regular flood tray.
 
TheCapn said:
That sucks about the pot being too small. Or check lowes, sometimes they have that #5 size. Or here's a better idea. Lowes has that 5gal bucket lid for $1.50. Get that, then cut a giant hole in the lid, and then put the lid on the bucket, so it will act as a little frame around the nursery pot to hold it up.

I've been known to walk aimlessly around the hardware stores with random buckets and planters... looking for what will work best!

The water that is left in the bottom of the bucket won't harm anything. As long as you're flooding a few times a day that water wont grow anaerobic bacteria.
Click to expand...

hey Capn, been a while since I have been in contact. I finally got my room built, drywalling and installing AC now. Re-reading this thread to get reacquainted with your methods, but I definitely am following your lead.

I quoted this in particular cause you said in a earlier post that you water/flood once a day, yet here you say "as long as youre flooding a few times a day"

kinda confusing.

Will be posting pics around the end of the month, once everything looks nice
 
DDCollect said:
hey Capn, been a while since I have been in contact. I finally got my room built, drywalling and installing AC now. Re-reading this thread to get reacquainted with your methods, but I definitely am following your lead.

I quoted this in particular cause you said in a earlier post that you water/flood once a day, yet here you say "as long as youre flooding a few times a day"

kinda confusing.

Will be posting pics around the end of the month, once everything looks nice
Click to expand...

Hey DD, glad to hear you're back and I can't wait to see pics. How big is your room. Separate veg and flower rooms? What kind of air con did you get?

As far as the flooding thing, you bring up a good point. When I was running the 3.5 gallon pots I was flooding 2-3 times a day, and then 1-2 toward the end of flowering. When I use bigger pots that hold more cubes, and stay more wet, I only flood once a day. And if I mix in some hydroton, I can flood 3-4 times a day. You'll need to use a little judgement as to how much the plants are using.

I've never had any trouble with an inch of water in the bottom of the bucket, even when roots are laying in it, and even flooding once a day. In a new ebb and flow set up I'm doing, I drilled a hole in the bottom of the bucket to let that access water drip out. Are you thinking about using the same ebb and flow set up I did here or top feeding?
 
Doing the EBB and flow, my buddy is a landscaper, so hes looking at these pics and building it like a sprinkler system. I will have it set up to come on in stations, off of 5 seperate reservoirs (each block of 3 plants has its own res as well), a simple switch will send which ever water I want to whichever corresponding reservoir. Its pretty cool the way hes gonna do it, Ill have pure r/o water, (mom and clone water) and each phase will have its different forumlas.

My veg room/clone/mother room is 12x18, drying/clipping room is 6x14 with a 4x4 drying closet

My flower room is 20x16

We are going with a 4 ton AC unit, its a little more expensive, but will cost less to operate in the long run. I have 10x600 Watt LED 's for the Veg room, with the footspace they cover (4x6 foot) I am setting up for it to fit 3 plants per 2 lights with the over lap, so will do 10 per phase, seperate 600w Led for Mother/cloner (I have it set up so I can stack 2 sections each with their own light if needed.

The Drying room is going to be made of cedar, built like a humidifier (suggesting from my builder) with a seperate temp/humidity controller.

Onto the Flower room, I am using 10 1000w (not sure of brand) HPS, with again 3 plants per 2 lights overlapping, setting the HPS to cover 4x6 foot. Air cooled with the AC I believe my AC guy said. Got 6 fans for flower, 4 for Veg, and will be installing the CO2 with controller as final step.

I'm gonna be at about 15000, total for the setup when finished, so not that bad, and should be recouped in the 1st/2nd crop. Will be starting to build my hydro system later this week.

thanks again for all your info, I will start posting pics shortly. Would you like pics during construction, I might be able to get a few

edit: side note, I had absolutely zero building knowledge before this project, now I can work a sawzaw, nailgun and build walls like a champ...except for the setback when I shot a nail into my finger lol, that hurts
 
Fantastic post. I intend to build a system like yours. A couple questions:

1. Your fill hole looks about 1" from the bottom of the bucket. Won't this cause an inch of water to remain in the bucket after it is drained? I noticed the Sentinel MEF-1 Ebb & Flow has their drain hole, literally, on the bottom of the bucket, with the drain lines running under their buckets so that almost no water remains in the bucket after draining. Is there concern that still water in the bottom of the bucket could be detrimental, or do you suppose it will mostly evaporate and increase humidity around the roots?

2. I wish to grow 6 plants in a tent so I am thinking:
(1) put the reservoir outside the tent to keep humidity down and maximize tent space,
(2) use 1 pump (450 gph?) with a 8 head manifold to flood 6 buckets and direct the other lines back into the reservoir to mix up the nutrients as they get pumped out, and add a couple air stones that turn on when the nutrients are pumped out for the same reason.
(3) with longer drain lines than yours, try to slope the return lines to prevent stagnant water in the lines.

Are these the right ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks in Advance!
 
>>>1. Your fill hole looks about 1" from the bottom of the bucket. Won't this cause an inch of water to remain in the bucket after it is drained?

Yep. But remember I'm using the 3.5 gal pot inside the bucket. Most of the roots are contained inside that pot. If I did it again, I would drill 1/4" holes in the bottom of the bucket so more roots can come thru. For the roots that do dangle in the water, it is not a big deal, as I was flooding 3 times a day anyway. It was not long enough for anything to get funky. If you're dead set against water in the bucket, you can put the fitting in the bottom. But this makes it inconvenient.

>>>(1) put the reservoir outside the tent to keep humidity down and maximize tent space,
>>>(2) use 1 pump (450 gph?) with a 8 head manifold to flood 6 buckets and direct the other lines back into the reservoir to mix up the nutrients as they get pumped out, and add a couple air stones that turn on when the nutrients are pumped out for the same reason.

Sounds great. You will need to test run this to make sure your theory works. The main thing is to make sure the buckets drain faster than you are filling them up. When running multiple buckets from one res, you would need to make sure all the buckets are the same height, of course.

>>>(3) with longer drain lines than yours, try to slope the return lines to prevent stagnant water in the lines.

That's a good idea. Try to get the blue 1/2" hose, as the clear hose grows algae in it.

It sounds like you have it figured out. The two extra lines back to the res are not necessary, and could make the set up not work properly. If you have one air stone in the res, that is enough to mix the nutrients. The water movement alone is enough to oxygenate the water. For 6 plants, I would do at least a 4 x 8' space and two 600w lights. Buckets should be on about 30" centers.

I'm not sure what your plant count limit is, or how much space you have or lighting, but personally, I would make two systems with 2 or 3 plants each. Load one system, wait a month, then load the other system. Then you can harvest every month. With 2-3 plants per system under 600W, you should easily get a lb each harvest. But either way... it will be a great set up.

Good luck, and please send pics when you get it going. It is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to grow.... and to date, my record plant is 20oz, and it was grown using this method.
 
What about Bucket and Net Pot size? I will use my 4'x4' tent for veg and buy a 8'x4.5' tent for flowering and add more lights (using 650W LEDs similar to these click here. I intend to set up two E&F, one for each tent. I will buy clones to start in veg, but want to do a perpetual grow giving them 2 months in each tent and follow closely your recommendations on medium, topping, and scrogging.

I saw that you mentioned about experimenting with bigger buckets? Should I do 5 gal with 10-12" net pots, or 6, 7 or larger gallon buckets/tubs in flowering? What would you suggest for my 2 month vegging?
 

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