Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?

I flip them early to keep them in check in the closet.
Letting them veg to much to take full advantage of the defol would allow them to get to big for my closet.

Sometimes they stay shorter than expected, sometimes stretch more than desired.

I guess my contribution to the journal would be more to show people it rarely harms the plant and can have some real benefits.

I've had plants with similar defol and a bit more veg yield 3.5, that's above my 2.5 avg

When to flip is important. Sometimes I have to flip out of necessity and I get what I get.
 
Excellent thread.
 
Bassman59 what is your opinion on my current setup of 6x 3gal grow bags in a 4x4 tent with 2x vipar spektra 600w LED lights? Are those lights good enough or am i losing yield due to not powerful enough lights? Im trying this heavy defoliating technique to see how my yields increase and started to wonder if i really do have grow lights good enough for my tent. i top twice and have a total of 6 cola's per plant (1 plant i didnt remove lower growth like the other 5, and only topped it once for 2 main colas).

On amazon search: VIPARSPECTRA Reflector-Series 600W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower

Here are some pics of my setup. What do you think about the defoliation, look about right? You can see i left some of the bigger outer leaves to help power them through a quicker recovery (going by the whole solar power stuff anyways lol)

DAY 39 VEG
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I defoliate just before going to bud cycle.as soon as they recover I switched to 12+12.do it again two weeks before harvest.
 
this was defoled at 21 and 42 days 12/12
she just passed 8th week.
letting her go 9 or 10 for mature seeds, notice the pollen sacs cola lower middle.
Only a few seeds seen, but I still want them to be ready.
MG40 DC bw 8 a.jpg

MG40 DC bw 8 a.jpg

 
Wow! Bassman, I just found this thread and I'm blown away by it completely. I'm in my first indoor grow and have a 2x2.5 tent. Using two Perfect Sun Mini's separated by about 6-8 inches. Going in soil at this point, but have started three clones in Hempy. Flipped to 12/12 25 days ago and did a pretty heavy under the screen defoliation at that point.
April 3rd Stretch

April 3rd Stretch

The stretch is certainly on
I actually used your technique without knowing in my clones this AM cutting off all fans and the tiny little bud sites down low completely out. I believe I will raise my screen tomorrow morning when the lights come on and pull Rae Skywalker out for a major trim per your initial postings. Any feed back would be welcome. She is really very healthy and stable. Water/Feed has been consistent. Lights are currently at 24" above canopy. I'm getting fairly consistent PAR readings around 600 until the very edges of the tent which the readings there are still between 350-400. I feel I'm getting really great penetration into the main plant, but your technique seems like it would make an even better difference, especially in yield.

So at this point, tomorrow morning I'm going in and taking any fan leaf that is stand alone out. Still a little fuzzy about those that have a small bud site at the stem down low, but think if the leaf stem is over 1.5" it should also go. The little tiny low hanging bud sites if I understand should also be taken out, is that correct?
 
Question for more experienced growers using this technique of defoliation. I have quite a few of these small stems with a single small but out on the end. I don't know if I should get rid of them and send more energy up to the big bud stems or keep. At best they are going to create perhaps single popcorn buds that will barely be a bong hit???
Little Stems

Little Stems

Little Stems

Little Stems

Little Stems

Little Stems

Additional Question, should I clean off these little leafy formations that sprout up down low on larger stems?
Stem Leaf Growth

Stem Leaf Growth

Little Stems

Little Stems

 
A follow up to my previous post on Tuesday April 3rd. Here is a picture after the defoliation. I might have take a bit more than should have, however the second picture is from today and seems happy.
April 4th

April 4th

Post Trim
April 6th Growth

April 6th Growth

I'm very please with the amount of space this created and also the extreme penetration that seems to be now reaching through the entire plant.
 
This is my current grow, a Pheno of LSD #5, she was taken from her mother at day 33 of flower an Monster Cropped. She is one amazing plant in a 10 gallon coco Smart Pot, DIY drip system, Drain to Waste.

Here she is during the hormone change at day 42 after being taken from her mother and re-vegged.
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20180205_090442 (2).jpg


Pic taken the last week of veg, 7 days prior to start of flower
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20180423_093424.jpg

Seven days later and the start of flower.
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1st night start of flower, all tied down and ready to rock.
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20180429_183037 (2).jpg

And here she was yesterday
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20180530_211148 (2).jpg


I have another 10 days or so for the day 42 prune/defo, but will be removing large fans between now and then.

GR

Can see my journal in my signature!
 
even when I don't defol a plant every 3 weeks, I still do a fan leaf defol at 7th or 8th week to get some of the lower buds a bit more light before harvest.
 
Bassman59 said:
This is going to be a very long post and possibly an even longer thread. We're trying to make this an educational thread on the subject of defoliation.

*Please refrain from posting in this thread until MR Smith has made his comments* This will allow us to get our thoughts, and lessons learned in some sort of order. Thanks.

All of the info posted by myself or Mr Smith is based on our own personal experience with the subject. Not conjecture nor opinion. Just our experience. There will be some quotes I will make from a 3rd party. These quotes are from the person whom I used as my initial guide on the subject. He's been using this technique for many years.

Ok lets start!

The first thing we need to do is understand the context within this topic as it pertains to our beloved plant. We need to define DEFOLIATION for the context of this thread because it has so many negative connotations with respect to cannabis.

Defoliation in this thread is: The removal of leaf, by hand, to be rid of shading of any other buds, nodes, or growth in crowded situations.

This could be called a substitute to the removal of lower branches, another popular technique sometimes called lollipopping.

As described by k33ftr elsewhere: Defoliation encourages branching in vegging plants in the same way as nipping the leader. The benefit of this technique is that the leader is retained to continue to create branches. It also shortens nodal length creating a more compact specimen.

Of importance is: It also shortens nodal length creating a more compact specimen. More on that later.

Some growers have been enjoying yields in very compact plants at only 32" cubed above and beyond 12oz per plant using this technique. Again, over 12oz dry per plant on girls that are no taller than 32 inches and just as wide around.

Again from k33ftr: 3 decades of experience with this technique reveal that bud growth benefits more from light exposure than whether the corresponding fan leaf is present.

Yes he has 3 decades of experience using this technique. It's pretty hard to argue against that much experience. And it makes sense! Bud growth benefits more from light exposure than having a corresponding leaf present.

The idea is to allow any and all bud sites to fully produce. Unlike removing lower branches, we keep them and get plenty of light to them. We grow real buds not popcorn off these lower branches. This method allows light to penetrate to any and all of the bud sites for full benefit throughout the entire plant.

Some people may be shocked at just how few leaves are on these plants and how robust they actually are. Below is the canopy of my current grow, about to be harvested.
PA040009.JPG


As one can see, there is an abundance of bud. It's a pretty even canopy. And clearly there are still leaves on the plants. We dont have any main colas sticking 6-8 inches or more above the rest of the bud sites either. That would mean much of the plant is getting less light while one small section (the main cola) is getting most of the light. Why not get most of the light to all of the plant?

Once we understand that we're trying to get the maximum amount of a limited light source in a limited area, we can begin to understand how and when to apply this technique and what other techniques are used in conjunction to make the whole process come through.

Prior to trying out this technique, please have your methods and strains down pat! This is important! This technique tends to work much better on indicas or indica dominants. Know your methods well. Have your ppm, ph, and atmosphere dialed in already. above all, don't over crowd your grow with plants! There are some that do use this in high count, fast flip to flower, small plant grows, but I'm talking about plants that get a real veg period. Say 4-6 weeks on avg.

The last thing you want to do is not have all your other peripheral methods down pat, have an issue, and blame a poor result on using this method when say, root rot due to high water temps was the real issue.

So we start this all out in veg. We begin our plant training to defoliation in veg. Once our girls are about 8" tall with about 6-8 pairs of true leaves we begin. We remove the fan leaves! You can top them also if you wish. If it's a natural shrubster type strain you may not want to. Grower choice. To be bit more specific, I remove all the leaves except the little cluster at the top.

In less than a week they will re-leaf. And boy will they ever! They will come back with a vengeance! More leaf, more nodes, more compact, in just one week. It's important to note, we only do this on good healthy plants. As an experienced grower you know if your plants are healthy and strong. With experience, you soon find you can tell by feel when you grab a branch or leaf if it's healthy and robust. Thus ready for the stripper pole and some leaf removal.

After this 1st stripping, they look a bit scary at first. But lets see how well they bounce back:
Before stripping:
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After the stripping:
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Just 10 -12 days later
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At the above point in veg they are about 8-10 inches tall and I strip them again.
Here's what they looked like after stripping for the 2nd time in veg on the same day as above:
P9200003.JPG


I do have a few more fan leaves above but notice they are all top cluster fans only. The smaller leaves are attached to new growth nodes and are left alone.

Here is what these same plants look like, 16 days later, (pics actually taken moments ago).
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The above plants are ready for flower. They are between 10-14" tall But the taller ones will be getting bent laterally to widen the girls, open up the canopy for more light exposure from top to bottom, and become those nice 32" wide fat bottomed girls we're striving for.

I personally don't strip them down just before going into flower. The stripping of these girls in veg DOES slow them down in veg, but in the end, it's only a week or two, and if you're cycling your plants, after the first extended veg, it's all moot. You plant accordingly. Also sending stripped girls into 12/12 slows the stretch. With defoliation we both love and hate stretch. We like the stretch because we can make them fatter with bending. We hate upwards stretch however. The plan is to get a nice even canopy that is fat and wide that allows really good light from top to bottom! Yes, we want to see all that crap popcorn we used to have become awesome bud. But even better, as we bend, the off shoots start to climb up and they hit the top of the canopy and become big fat budding flowers too!.

During stretch I dont strip the girls until day 21, or basically end of stretch. I let them grow like crazy and bend them accordingly.

*note, you may want to create a form of netting to support the bent over branches. It doesnt have to be a string ever 3 inches or less like say in a scrog. 5-6-8 rungs in each direction, depending on the size of your grow is all it takes.

*I plan my grow space based on 28" center to center between plants MINIMUM. I have 4 plants in a 5' x 5' tent.

*note, if for some reason they get so tall that you lose light adjustment before stretch is over, if you strip them hard, they will stop stretching for the most part. This is a simple way to manipulate height. But it's not ideal. It won't hurt the plants. It just means you (like I did) probably didnt plan quite right and let them get too tall in veg.

*one of the side benefits of defoliation like this is reducing relative humidity and increasing airflow. We've all seen monster bushy plants with so many leaves they literally sweat water on each other and the floor. Dehumidifiers may be a thing of the past for some using this technique. I know I don't need one.

Next post, about this transition phase and defoliation in flower along with other techniques used along the way in this process.
Click to expand...
First, let me just say what a great thread.
Love how everyone is chiming in and keeping this thread strong.
Also, I just tried my hands with defoilation.
Could you guys visit my journal (it's in my signature) and let me know if I did okay?
If not, what I did wrong and could have done better?
Thanks a million in advance guys! :)
 
Since mom's passing in late 2014, along with me being raised, I've been away from this. I don't personally partake at all. That being said I have seen medical benefits and support this plant 100%. I also don't care about rec use.

I even tried albeit casually, to get involved as a grower working for dispensaries in Las Vegas when the law passed. But no "professional" experience got me no interviews even. It's ok I guess. While the charges cost me my gaming license in the end, and destroyed a decent career, it led me to my new.

If this thread has or does help others, I couldn't be happier. I miss being active with so many of the people here @ 420mag. But I will occasionally pop in.

Blessings to all.
 
@Bassman, thanks for popping in and saying hello. Regrets to hear you have had difficulties. Some of us are continuing the process and I myself continue to experiment with different variances on the theme to see which work best for me. You have left good info to go on and work with. Thanks.
 
Bassman59 said:
Since mom's passing in late 2014, along with me being raised, I've been away from this. I don't personally partake at all. That being said I have seen medical benefits and support this plant 100%. I also don't care about rec use.

I even tried albeit casually, to get involved as a grower working for dispensaries in Las Vegas when the law passed. But no "professional" experience got me no interviews even. It's ok I guess. While the charges cost me my gaming license in the end, and destroyed a decent career, it led me to my new.

If this thread has or does help others, I couldn't be happier. I miss being active with so many of the people here @ 420mag. But I will occasionally pop in.

Blessings to all.
Click to expand...
Hi Bassman, glad to have you come back to say hello. I use this method I got from your pages and enjoy it's benefits very much. Thanks a million. Good luck with everything you do.
 

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