Introducing Benes to my DWC for the first time

[Papageno]

I would clarify I don't know if anyone has done a scientific study on bud factor X except maybe AN.

Chitosan Has been well studied and is a very popular additive in all kinds of horticulture for many decades. It comes from the shells of crustaceans like crabs or shrimp. I bought a bag of crab shell meal and got an ad-hock recipe for a home brew I will post after I do it. It will take me 2 days minimum. I also am going to add in alfalfa which is the main component for nirvana so it might be a great combo. Both of these can be added at all stages if possible. The chitosan will cause a plant to think it is under attack and therefore must defend itself both in stalk growth and create as many seeds as possible. That translates to tight nodal density and larger buds.

There are other chitosan products as well but when we started talking about it he pulled me to the back room where there were various bags of stuff and we rummaged around until we found the crab meal and he explained to me how to make my own. He was however high as a kite so we shall see.

 

[LEDBud]

I am looking into chitosan , it seems people are using it to aid in weight loss , it apparently blocks the intestines from absorbing fat.

Also they are working on Chitosan Bioplastic , a fully degradable bioplastic isolated from shrimp shells , that could replace many commonly used plastics.
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NASA results revealed chitosan induces increased growth (biomass) and pathogen resistance due to elevated levels of beta 1-3 glucanase enzymes within the plant cells. NASA confirmed chitosan elicits the same effect in plants on earth.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chitosan
Chitosan is a plant defense booster derived through the breaking down of chitin found in shellfish and mullosks. In

general Chitosan can help improve the efficiency of a nutrient or fertilizer. Chitosan will increase the quantity, size
and shelf life of a harvest product. Chitosan is also effective at providing insect and disease control. The chitosan

molecule triggers a defence response within the plant, leading to the formation of physical and chemical barriers

against invading pathogens. Chitosan possesses a high growth stimulating efficacy combined with antifungal and

antibacterial activity of systemic character. Chitosan cause no damage to the plant whatsoever.

Chitosan inhibits the reproduction of pathogens and can be applied via foliar spray or through watering.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am glad you brought Chitosan up , I have never considered using it or even heard of it before.

 

[LEDBud]

I leaned that Chitosan can be purchased in powder form and found some sellers of it.

On eBay there is a couple sellers who have it up for sale , its still pricey but you can buy a small amount for not much money.

 

[Papageno]

Chitosan can be easily processed out of shrimp or crab meal which is a major by product of the fishing industry and readily available for cheap. All good garden centers and hydro stores have it and I will explain in the next post how to use it.

 

[Papageno]

Disclaimer: This is not beneficial bacteria so this is way off topic now.

Alright so I made this stuff and boy it looks awesome. I will post pics in a week of before and after results. This may sound difficult but it is super easy and kinda fun to watch brewing.

Before I give the recipe I want to explain a few things.

First AN Nirvana is essentially 3 things according to their website.
1) Alfalfa: Well know for years to be a great fertilizer for blooming plants. It has lots of micro nutrients needed for buds. It is highly common to brew a tea of just this.
Alfalfa Meal Gardening Info ? Usage And Source For Alfalfa Meal Fertilizer

2) Ascophyllum nodosum: Found in a type of Atlantic Kelp. Also known to be very beneficial. From a scientific study I pulled off the net...Noted to promote root tip elongation, enhanced vigor, shot growth, enhanced germination, reduced foliar fungal disease and better than some other stuff at reducing infection and a lot more

3) Organic Surfactants (I remember this from Chemistry class): Surfactants make water wetter. Soap is the easy analogy. Many people don't realize that soap doesn't help at cleaning. It just makes water wetter and the water does all the cleaning. It has been demonstrated that surfactants will aid in transportation of nutrients by making it easier. Many gardening websites talk about the benefits.

I didn't want to add surfactants for 2 reasons. 1) Cost... basically if you have enough root mass then you should be able to take up the nutes. Also 2) since it is soap if you put it in compost tea with an air stone it will froth over all over the place. You can just add it later if you want but again it will froth in a heavily aerated res like DWC so tread lightly. It is not really recommended for DWC so I did not add any.

I did add the other 2 major ingredients of Nirvana in my tea so this tea is some concoction that is a homemade mix of Bud Factor X and Nirvana. I think it could be applied during all parts of growth but it is strong so be careful.


What you need:
2 x 5 gallon buckets. You can get away with one but in the end you have to strain it out and I find it easier to strain it into another bucket for a final check before adding it in. I ended up using 3 buckets to strain it twice without cleaning up the mess in the first two.

Large stir stick to get to the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket

Airpump and Airstone

1 bag alfalfa meal: Can be bought at any feed store or most hydro and garden stores. I used Down to Earths brand

1 bottle of Alaska kelp fertilizer

1 bottle Botanicare Seaplex

1 bottle Aphrodites Extraction Carbon by Nectar of the Gods

1 bottle hygrozyme: This may be the most expensive one but you don't use much so this will make many batches. All DWC folks should be using this for other reasons anyway.

Fulvic Acid: My understanding is many people make fulvic acid but only one company does it correctly and this is their product. Fulvic acid is good for people as well as plants. When you have time to kill research it a bit. You can just add this stuff at any point and it will help nute uptake. It really should be in any tea and all DWC all the time.

Crab Meal: I got mine at the hydro store but probably can be found at any gardening supply store. I used the same brand as the alfalfa.

Earthworm Castings: This can be found anywhere. People put this in many fertilizer teas.

Humus soil: Many places have this in many brands. This can be found anywhere including Home Depot and Lowes. I used this stuff.

5 gallons RO or de-chlorinated water at room temp or roughly 70F. Mine from the tap has a ppm of 12 so I just de-chlorinate.

Recipe: (the units here are a totally made up thing, feel free to experiment but this is what I used)
2 cups alfalfa
1/4 cup crab meal - next time I may try 1 cup and see what happens
2 cups Earthworm Castings
2 cups Humus soil
Alaska kelp fertilizer - followed bottle instructions for 5 gallons
Seaplex - followed bottle instructions for 5 gallons
Aphrodites Extraction - 1 1/4 teaspoon (1/4 tsp per gallon...I may have gone a smidge over)
Hygrozyme - 50ml (10ml per gallon)
Fulvic Acid - 75ml (15ml per gallon)

How to brew:
Take a 5 gallon bucket and put in the dry ingredients. Then add 5 gallons of water (most 5 gallon buckets are more like 6). You could add the dry to the water instead but it is a bit messy and difficult to mix in. Then add the wet ingredients and stir up good. There will be heavy sediment on the bottom you will want to agitate it all up. Add the air stones before the solids settle. Stir it up every few hours if you can. Keep it indoors so it stays at room temp or about 70 F. After about 24 hours add a second dose of the Aphrodites Extraction, mix and let sit for a few minutes then Strain into second bucket. You can use a sock or panty hose...I use a strainer. I recommend straining it twice. I siphon it like this.

I changed it up a bit because I am in bloom. I let it stand for a while before straining and then post strain I added Sugaree at the last moment before putting in my res.

My tap water after de-chlorination is about 8.4pH and 12 ppm. When I got done straining it was at 6.85 pH and 846 ppm (before adding the Sugaree).

And just a note. The Hygrozyme is doing all the work to break down everything so fast. On the Advanced Nutrients website they go on and on about how their competitors are using acids to break down things and that is why their stuff is superior because they use enzymes.

Here is what it looked like immediately

After a few hours

The next day

Filtering with a siphon

Final Product

 

[LEDBud]

I am going try it with a variation of your mix , I have the Nirvana already so i will add it.
My modified recipe so far

0) Nirvana
1) crab shrimp meal - 3 or 4 cups to 2 gallons of water
2) hygrozyme - as suggested
3) worn casings - as suggested
4) liquid seaweed - as suggested
5) fulvic acid - as suggested

I will pick up the supplies on next pay day then brew up a batch , use some and freeze the rest in plastic pop bottles for storage.

It will be concentrated so i will water it down when i apply it.

 

[Papageno]

I would just say adding Nirvana, which has already been broken down, may not be beneficial. Just follow it's directions. What I am showing you here is how to make your own for cheap.

So the Hygrozyme uses the sugars from the Aphrodites and breaks down the alfalfa, Crab meal, kelp, worm castings into usable goodness. The humic Soil can be substituted by adding some Humic product but the point here is DIY ...and do'n it on the cheap.

I agree you can play with the dossing and maybe more crustaceans is the bomb...but you have removed a few things that are probably important if not critical and added something that is already a tea and done brewing.

Also seaweed is great but the exact thing in Nirvana comes only from a special species of Atlantic Kelp. Many people bottle it, I just posted the one that you can find at Home Depot for cheap.

If you have Nirvana just use it and don't add alfalfa and kelp. Kelp and other seaweeds have been know for many years to have the best concentration of trace nutes in the world (PERIOD). The ocean is a wonderful ecosystem. Alfalfa is just one of those amazing plants that is the bomb.

So all I did was add the best things to the tea because I wanted to maximize the cost effectiveness of this. Basically AN always separates everything into multiple bottles so you have to buy more. I want to do the opposite. IN FACT...I almost added mycos to this just to turn it up to 11 but I decided against it. Then we would be combining BFX, Nirvana, Piranha and that is just way too cool...I am just the next door idiot so i can't make something that cool.

 

[LEDBud]

thanks for the tip , I think you should make something that cool !

 

[Papageno]

Hey sorry I was meaning to update but I got real busy. I got a new 5x5 gorilla tent and a 1000W setup and so I have been monkeying around in the garage setting all that up.

So I took pics but haven't had time to clean um up yet. I did want to let you know 2 things. 1) like I said that stuff is strong. after a few days I started getting signs of nute burn. Now it wasn't much and I put a ton in so if you go easy it shouldn't be a problem. I just dumped half the res and topped off with 15 gallons of fresh pH'd and all is good to go. 2) if you let it settle for a few days (leave an air stone in it) after filtering it out a few times like i said, all the worm castings fall out to the bottom. Then I have a very nice slightly yellow tea that looks real good. If you don't even though yo filter it a lot of black crap gets through and may stain the roots a bit. If you like you roots pearly white then deferentially let is settle that stuff out first.

I will be doing this again but probably drop the worm castings down in half and double the crab meal and see what happens.

My pants grew about 1 foot during the week after I added this stuff.

I will update this with pics in a few days.

 

[Kal1424]

OK, here is what I am running. I used to run 2 separate bucket DWC, but just Saturday night, I changed over to a DIY circulating system that includes a 35 gallon Rez and an overall total volume of 50 Gallons. IN that soup, this is what I have in there...

Cal Mag	150ml
Sensi Bloom B	120ml
Sensi Bloom A	120ml
B-52	75ml
Big Bud	150ml
Bud Candy	150ml
Piranha	150ml
Nirvana	150ml
Sensizym	150ml
Rhino Skin	150ml
Bud Factor X	150ml
Total PPM	1050

My PH was hard to get down, ended up using about 150 ML of PH down over 2 days to get it to around 5.5-5.6. The PPMs are going up however as the water is going down. Currently, I am at 45 gallons (they have drank 5 gallons since Saturday night), the PPMs are at 1140 and the PH is at 5.7

I also want to add that with the amount of Nutes and supplements I had to throw in there, I dont plan on changing the rez. I will just be replenishing it as needed. I'll have to play around with the nutes I put in the replenishment regiment.

 

[LEDBud]

Your plants are looking nice , very full and bushy Its going to be a nice crop.


My plan is to make up small batches of water/nutrients at a time so I can use most of it up before it turns to potent and needs a bunch of water dilutions ,which could raise the PH. I will dump the last gallon or two out and make a new batch after minimal water dilutions.

I am using the PH perfect Grow Bloom , Once that food is gone I am going to buy something else and adjust my PH myself.

The PH perfect seems to settle at 5.8 for me and I would like to have it at 5.6

 

[Papageno]

Looks good!

I have found just topping it off is fine to do if you let the pH cycle. But eventually it will start to tank and go very acidic and be hard to bring up. That is usually when I dump and start over. If not you end up adding a ton of stuff to correct (not just base pH UP) and wasting your time and money.

What you want is the water level to drop and the ppm to stay the same so they are taking up nutes and water evenly. If the ppm is going up while the water is going down then your plants are drinking water faster than nutes. The next time you top off don't add any nutes. Just add pH'd water that has 1/4 strength silica just for what you are adding (so if you are adding 5 gallons just add silica to that 5 for that 5 at 1/4 strength) and bennies or fungi if you are in those weeks and leave good enough alone. Try and get it balanced back so the PPMs are stable with the water uptake. Usually one good dose of water will clean that right up. pH the water you add to roughly the same level the res is at.

 

[LEDBud]

I have read that you should not add ph up or down to the ph perfect nutrients as it could can cause PH dips and rises. It can be hard to adjust as the buffers hide the PH adjustment , for a while.

Your plants are looking great but one person I read about messed it up the first time using it by adjusting the PH
Then did great the next time when he made up fresh batches instead of adding lots of PH up and or down.



I am going to turf my batch once the PH goes far out of whack so I will make smaller batches.



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PH Buffers


The PH buffers function to resist changes in hydrogen ion concentration as a result of internal and environmental factors. Biologists often think of buffers as providing essential cofactors for enzymatically driven reactions, critical salts, and even essential nutrients for cells and tissues. However, when the basic function of a buffer system, resisting changes in hydrogen ion concentration, is overlooked, experimental artifacts and other problems soon follow.


Buffers consist of a weak acid and its conjugate base or a weak base and its conjugate acid.
Weak acids and bases do not completely dissociate in water, and instead exist in solution as an equilibrium of dissociated and undissociated species. Consider acetic acid.

In solution acetate ions, hydrogen ions and undissociated acetic acid exist in equilibrium.
This system is capable of absorbing either H+ or OH— due to the reversible nature of the dissociation of acetic acid can release H+ to neutralize OH— and form water. The conjugate base, A—, can react with H+ ions added to the system to produce acetic acid.

In this way, pH is maintained as the three species constantly adjust to restore equilibrium.

 

[Kal1424]

Looks good!

I have found just topping it off is fine to do if you let the pH cycle. But eventually it will start to tank and go very acidic and be hard to bring up. That is usually when I dump and start over. If not you end up adding a ton of stuff to correct (not just base pH UP) and wasting your time and money.

What you want is the water level to drop and the ppm to stay the same so they are taking up nutes and water evenly. If the ppm is going up while the water is going down then your plants are drinking water faster than nutes. The next time you top off don't add any nutes. Just add pH'd water that has 1/4 strength silica just for what you are adding (so if you are adding 5 gallons just add silica to that 5 for that 5 at 1/4 strength) and bennies or fungi if you are in those weeks and leave good enough alone. Try and get it balanced back so the PPMs are stable with the water uptake. Usually one good dose of water will clean that right up. pH the water you add to roughly the same level the res is at.

I added 5 gallons of PHd water with 10 ML of Rhino Skin (Silica - and the math worked out to 10ml for the 5 gallons i added). Got the PPM down to 900. I will see how it drinks going forward. I am hoping things balance out.

 

[Kal1424]

Led, I agree on the PH buffering, but right now I have no choice. My water out of my filter is 7.2PH. Have to drop it no matter what I add.

 

[Papageno]

so two things...

I wasn't suggesting to add pH up top the res where the buffered stuff is rather dilute it in the top off bucket first to get it close. pH up or Down is very strong and will mess up whatever it comes in direct contact with . That is why it is always best to add it to some top off first. If it is fully diluted into the 5 gallons before dumping that in then it shouldn't be a problem in messing up what is there.

Second LED you are totally correct...but...

Those buffers only last a few days. Some say 4 days but they should be good for about a week. If you are following AN directions and dumping weekly then yes you should never add anything nor need to unless you have an infection or some other serious problem. However if you are not changing weekly then those buffers wear down and eventually don't matter. I suspect that even if you top off with buffered water it is not enough to compensate for all the rest of the res. So in the end you will have to manage it a bit anyway if you are trying to stretch out the res changes.

As I have said before...I have extended my res change and not needed to add much but I don't force it to stay at 5.8. Go look at the Current Culture recommended pH chart. During veg they recommend starting at 6.3 which by no random coincidence is what Lettuce is supposed to run at which is a veg only plant. During bloom you want it to come down a bunch to get better absorption of a different profile of nutes than in veg. They don't recommend 5.8 until well into flowering. This is in synch with other flowering plants.

I hate to say it but this is one of the reasons I am trying to get away from AN. The products are great. But I want to try and do more for less buy doing it closer to how nature wants it and not force it to happen by spending money.

Letting the pH fluctuate normally and adjusting it once a week is not that much work. If you want to keep it between 5.9 and 5.7 you will be wanting to run AN and dump weekly. But if you are okay with letting the ecosystem act natural and don't freak out when you see 6.2 then you wont need to adjust but once a week. I have gone many weeks without adjusting. I just dial in my top off and let her rip.

It should be noted that a pH of 7.0 (neutral) is not bad for cannabis. It will not hurt the pant at all. Many growers brew up a microbial bacteria beneficial tea at 7.0 because acidic teas kill all the good stuff. Then they let the plant sit in the 7.0 for a day. Then drop it down to 6ish and add in the nutes. The only thing a netural pH will do is cause lockout of some nutes. If that is not dealt with in a reasonable time it can cause a problem. But letting it go up to 6.2 wont hurt anything. I have been recommended to run it between 6.4-6.6 in order to accelerate calcium absorption to fix calcium deficiencies. I was told to dump my res and do a strong Calcium at 6.4 for 24 hours then go back to a normal res. I did something else because I am too cheap to do that and I fixed it much easier...but I didn't have much of a problem, I caught it very early because I know what to look for.

Anyway I am just saying that all this pH buffer nonsense is for the paranoid or those who don't want to do a daily check. It is a very great way to make things easy on yourself as long as you dump once a week. For the professional growers who have too much to do to worry about it and tons of money to spend I say go for it. That just aint me and I like to go sit with my plants a bit every day anyway.

 

[LEDBud]

I am going to stretch the ph perfect somewhat but in the end dump it , its nice to hear the PH can rise so much.

I am going to mist from the nutrient tank to the grow tank then drain to a separate container that will be monitored.

I have ordered some data logger modules that measure and record graphs of the Oxygen levels the PH and ppm numbers 24-7 to be played back later or viewed in real time when connected by USB to a laptop or with Wifi to a smart phone.

no more going to take O2 or ph and ppm measurements now I can check the laptop and view the graphs.

 

[Kal1424]

I like to spend time in the room with my babies as well. I enjoy hanging out with them. lol

The thing with me is that I travel for work a lot and I am gone every other week. So I am trying to get to a systems that is somewhat maintenance free. This 50 gallon system is looking like it will provide me that environment. I hope I didn't just jinx myself.

My PH has been pretty steady now at 5.7. I imagine once the buffers wear out, then it may vary and I want it to as well. Just like you said, I want it to go to the range of PH to make sure it absorbs everything it needs....

 

[Kal1424]

i have a blue labs monitor that hangs on the wall and has probes that sit in the rez, so I have a constant readout.

like this one: Blue Labs Monitor

It was not very expensive and I think well worth the expenditure.

 

[LEDBud]

The Bluelab looks like a very nice Monitor to use.

The ones I bought are call neulog , I bought the USB module that connects them to the computer and a oxygen sensors that sense o2 levels in the air and dissolved oxygen in water
and the conductivity monitor for measuring PPM and the PH module. They come with their probes and are plug and play.

the modules can be daisy chained together or used alone. they clip into each other if you want to use them all at once.


I can buy the WiFi module if I want, they sell 45 other sensors for chemistry and biology separately

I want to buy the small display module that displays the measurements without being connected. They also sell a large display that plugs along side the modules to watch graphs on.