It was doing great

FishFlavouredTimbit

FishFlavouredTimbit

420 Member
Hi everyone. I'm a pretty new grower. I'm learning a lot from you guys, but I have many more things to learn...it's fun though!!!

I started my Black Gorilla seeds 8 days ago (Sunday). They sprouted overnight and had 3/4" tails within 36 hours. I planted them in hydroton and watered them every 8 hours with distilled water (pH'd to 5.5) with cal-mag added (1ml/litre) for 3 days as the roots grew...and boy howdy...did the ever grow! By the way, I added the cal-mag ONLY to provide an electrolyte so the pH tester could accurately measure the distilled water pH. They were 3" roots in 2 days. The first set of true leaves appeared on Thursday. I kept using the distilled water, but I cut the cal-mag to 0.5ml/L and I added 0.5ml/L of Sensi-grow nutes and watered every 8 hours. The water just wets the hydroton. The roots don't sit in water. They grew very slowly then stopped. The photo shows them as they are today, 8 days after germination. They haven't grown since Friday.

Now the tips are blackened. Any of you pot-medics out there know what I did wrong and how I can correct it?

Is it nute-burn? I always thought nute burn turned the edges crispy and brown, so I'm not thinking nute burn. Could a pH problem present with blackened tips?

Thanks everyone...

Seedling Leaf Tips.jpg
 
I use Advanced Nutrients Cal-Mag. N - 4%. Ca - 3.1% Mg - 1.1%

I have flushed the hydroton with distilled water at pH 5.6. I had to add .1ml CaMg to 500mls water in order for the pH tester to work. It was quite literally one drop in 500 mls.

Some people feed nutes to their seedlings from day 1. How do they get away with it?

I'm contemplating starting over. It doesn't bode well to start a grow with a problem like this so soon.
 
I went with hydroton because I am going DWC. I don't like transplanting from dirt to hydro. It is impossible to clean all of the dirt off the roots and any that remains may cause problems such as rot or mold. I always boil the hydroton before use. The little germ'd seed had a 3/4" taproot when I put it in the hydroton. Within two days, the roots were all the way down the sides and bottom of the container. Then the leaves appeared. Then it all stopped!

Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to keep her alive?
 
I would at least transfer her into fresh clean hydroton assuming there are roots left to transfer. If it is going to be hydro anyway, put it in a saucer or tray that will hold a little bit of water, I suspect with the large spaces in the hydroton some of those roots may have gotten too dried out at some point.
 
FishFlavouredTimbit said:
What do the rest of you think? Nitrogen toxicity? Should I dump the grow?
Click to expand...
My thoughts are to try to find out what is causing the change in the color of the leaf tips. If the grow gets dumped without knowing the cause and the fix then the same problem can show up again with only the same dumping option left.

Figuring out the cause and knowing that the fix might only take a week to show recovery beats dumping. If the fix takes several weeks dump or recover but at least the good and bad points are known.
 
SmokingWings said:
My thoughts are to try to find out what is causing the change in the color of the leaf tips. If the grow gets dumped without knowing the cause and the fix then the same problem can show up again with only the same dumping option left.

Figuring out the cause and knowing that the fix might only take a week to show recovery beats dumping. If the fix takes several weeks dump or recover but at least the good and bad points are known.
Click to expand...
That is a very well considered approach, and I completely agree. Of course, my reason for making the post to start with was to discover the reason for the blackened leaf tips and the suddenly stunted growth. I certainly don't want to repeat this.

As far as starting in hydroton is concerned, I use slightly crushed hydroton. The pieces are 1/8 the size of normal hydroton pebbles. As I said in my original post, the seed germ'd and grew a tail within 36 hours. Within 48 hours of planting in hydroton, it had 2.5-3 inch roots. Then the first two leaves appeared. Then it all stopped. The only thing I changed was the watering with very weak nutes. There are no huge air gaps at the roots. The roots have not dried out. The roots are actually the best part of the plant! Clean, white, and branching off in one or two spots. I water the seedling every 8 hours just to dampen the hydroton. The container has drain holes. The container sits within an opaque sleeve. No light can get to the roots. I keep the seedling under a plastic dome. It is lit with a 60W CFL @ 8"

Yesterday, I flushed everything with distilled water pH'd to 5.6. In order to test the water pH, I had to add 0.1ml of CaMg to 500mls of distilled water in order for the meter to work. Meters can't accurately test pH of distilled water unless you add some electrolytes to conduct the electricity in the meter electrodes. Anyway, that is the only additive to the water.

I'm not going to dump her yet. It's encouraging that "The Great Blackening of 2024" hasn't gotten any worse. She might turn around yet!

All of my nutes, additives, and biologicals arrived today. If my little girl hadn't gotten ill, I would be transplanting her into my tent today. No worries...I'm old enough to see the value in taking my time to get it right. I can wait a few more days.

Once she gets into the tent, everything is now automated so I won't need to baby her as much. Now that I have a proper heat exchanger installed in each bucket, cooling won't be a problem going forward. I had to dump my last grow due to root rot. I didn't realize that the air supply from the pump was pinched-off. My plants went without O2 for about 6-7 days. The temp didn't go above 70F, but no O2 is deadly.

So, does everyone agree that the blackening is a nitrogen toxicity issue, due, no doubt, to my overly ambitious feeding regimen? If so, I can amend my notes to show that even 1/4 strength nutes can burn a seedling.

Or, could it possibly be something else? Unfortunately, there are no online pictures of the effects of various deficiencies on seedlings. That's why I ask you guys. I'm sure one or two of you has seen this before.

If I cannot add nutes at the beginning, when should I add the nutes? 2nd week? 3rd week? 2nd set of leaves? I can't imagine a seedling going three weeks without any nutes.

Thanks for all of your advice!
 
Regrowth said:
I'm not a hydro guy but I figure you'd be better starting in rapid rooters / plugs or rockwool cubes and transitioning over to the hydroton.
Click to expand...
I don't want to risk getting root rot. I prefer to start with clean roots. There is no reason to be afraid of planting directly into hydroton. As soon as the roots 'feel' the hydroton, they start to climb their way through all the cracks and crevices as they search downwards for water. You need to place the roots carefully and place the hydroton around the roots, building up to a point where it is self-supporting. Give it a 20 second splash of water every hour, and let it grow. I use slightly crushed hydroton, or small lava rocks to get it started. Either will wash out of the root mass very easily. Even if it doesn't fall out, it won't promote root rot, or mold.
 
Finnicki said:
Is light getting to the roots? The cup is opaque so that is good.
Click to expand...
Good question, but no. The container fits into an opaque sleeve. I pull it out to inspect the roots. They are doing fine, by the way. White, clean, branching - 2.5-3 inches long. They are the best part of the plant.
 
Sueet said:
I would at least transfer her into fresh clean hydroton assuming there are roots left to transfer. If it is going to be hydro anyway, put it in a saucer or tray that will hold a little bit of water, I suspect with the large spaces in the hydroton some of those roots may have gotten too dried out at some point.
Click to expand...
No, the roots are fine.
 
FishFlavouredTimbit said:
I don't want to risk getting root rot. I prefer to start with clean roots. There is no reason to be afraid of planting directly into hydroton. As soon as the roots 'feel' the hydroton, they start to climb their way through all the cracks and crevices as they search downwards for water. You need to place the roots carefully and place the hydroton around the roots, building up to a point where it is self-supporting. Give it a 20 second splash of water every hour, and let it grow. I use slightly crushed hydroton, or small lava rocks to get it started. Either will wash out of the root mass very easily. Even if it doesn't fall out, it won't promote root rot, or mold.
Click to expand...
I grow hydro and have used hydroton and I preferred to start off it a rockwool block and place that in the hydroton i never get root rot.
I prefer to do it that way rather than placing delicate starter roots straight into a rough environment where they can get damaged or dry out quicker. I've since moved away from hydroton completely and use a flood and drain system in my buckets and I only use straight rockwool in my hydroponic baskets that are fitted into the lids
1/12/23

1/12/23

Green Crack

Each to their own
 
Remove the dome, plants need fresh air exchange….

Domes are meant for cuttings to keep the relative humidity high while a cutting develops roots, seedlings already have roots, so a dome is not necessary.

A dome is kind of like life-support, would you rather have a newborn in an oxygen tent? or one that can breathe on its own? With a dome the plant never has to transpire or move water thru the roots up the stem and out of leaf stomata.

With a dome the plant has a closed system, too much water in, but no way to process that water out, yet no fresh air is coming in

best of luck!
 
Everyone seems so concerned about my use of hydroton. We've been using hydroton for years. Is it really so bad? I've grown in hydroton before and it has never caused my seedlings to stop growing and turn black.

Do you guys really think that the blackening of the leaf tips is because of the hydroton? I'm leaning towards a nute burn or nitrogen toxicity. Remember, they were growing well, in the hydroton, until I added 1/4 strength nutes.

I'm still in disbelief that such a small amount of nutes can cause all this carnage.

013 said:
Remove the dome, plants need fresh air exchange….
Click to expand...
Humidity is 17%. Dome removed. I'll watch it carefully to ensure it doesn't start wilting. Thanks.
 
What can I say, winter time in Kanada! It gets dry like a desert. We have a team of people whose only job is to go door-to-door, moisturizing babies and old folks in the winter. You can always spot a 'moisturizer' crew member by their lovely hands and the scent of cocoa butter.

The leaf tips are curling up. They are dried out. I think the low humidity is a stress that the plant just doesn't need right now. The 'dome' is just part of a large plastic bottle. It's very big and clear. I spray a fine mist into the dome and then quickly put it over the plant. It just wets the air inside a little. I'll put the dome back on overnight for the next few days.

On the bright side, when I removed the dome, I noticed two extremely small leaf buds trying to emerge from between the two stunted leaves. That's good, eh? She wants to grow.
 

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