Nutrient Advice

[Ganja Goose]

Sure this is for soil only and as far as the upcans that’s for photoperiods. For autos just start in final container but you need Emilya’s watering tech to get an auto in large final container right, I linked that up below. You can transplant an auto successfully but if you piss her off you can easily stunt an auto by transplanting it.

For photoperiod.... in veg start in small container like Dixie cup and once you get past tiny seedling say 2 to 3 pairs, start working the wet dry cycle. Water it and wait 3 to 4 days minimum with no water. If she looks good maybe wait 1 more day before watering. Or if she’s slightly wilted then give her a drink.

When the soil dries out completely the plant grows tiny root hairs to search for water. Done over time this helps build a strong rootball. After 3 to 4 weeks of doing this she gets root-bound, when leaves extend beyond the edges of the cup and she needs water often then we know it’s root-bound. We transplant or upcan to a 1 gallon container.

We keep repeating this process of watering and letting her dry out completely. Some call it the lift method... fill a same size container with only soil, no water. Use this as a comparison weight and lift the empty pot... now compare to your plant. When it’s dry she’s light as a feather.

We continue to veg her out using the wet dry cycle to build roots. We want her leaves much wider than the 1 gallon container. Rootbound so she needs water every day. She can stay in the 1 gallon for easy 30 to 60 days vegging her out, teasing that wet dry cycle and do your training too.

The last upcan is important, I like to time it a few weeks ahead of the flip to flower. In veg a plant will freely build roots, but in flower she uses the roots that were built in veg. So I do my last upcan into 5, 7, 10 or 15 gallon pots. (Bigger is better for soil) At the last upcan score the root ball with sterile knife - add your mycos or recharge or magic elf spunk but scoring rootball this encourages her to take over new home. Then veg for a few more weeks and then flip to flower. The upcan and root scoring is suggested by every nursery when you take a new shrub or ornamental tree home. Each upcan has added fresh soil to kick start her. Most folks do 20 ounce cup to 1 gallon to big final container. Always upcan from position of strength, a very healthy robust plant - if it’s weak or deficient wait, don’t do it.

This watering tech works for veg but in flower cycle you should keep the soil moist at all times. This works best if you’ve got a well drained soil with ample aeration, perlite or rice hulls etc. This probably doesn’t work right on plain brown dirt! None of this would work in a scrog but I did mainline training 72 tops and chopped 930 g wet off my first girl, that’s little over 8 zips dry. I was ok with that one! Not a pro, not saying this is best, but it focuses on building a giant root ball, that should carry her thru.

There are other great reads on her page, look down at her signature line. The other one to read is How to Water a Potted Plant.....Emilya Watering an Auto in Large final container

Hey @013 I was just going though this information again and wanted to ask you what you mean by "mainline training?" Is that the typical process of topping and LST type of activities? Something different?

GG

 

[Ganja Goose]

May I ask why you chose AN ? Expensive stuff

Sorry @Buds Buddy I missed your question the first time around. We just stumbled onto them and thought it sounded like it was simple to use. It definitely is expensive and I appreciate the tip about Mega Crop. Thank you

GG

 

[013]

What’s up Ganja? ok first.... no topping or training on an autoflower - that can be done but it’s a pro move. Avoid it for now.... autos are super easy to stunt.... once stunted yields will suck.

lst is how you train an auto to avoid stunting it, this training can also be used on photos - but photos can be topped or trained in any manner without fear of stunting provided you wait until after 5 nodes.

But on photoperiods.... no topping until plant has reached 5 nodes or pairs of limbs. Don’t top or train on a weak plant... needs to be healthy! A manifold or mainline cuts the plant down to only 2 main limbs that you tie down and let them be the framework for your whole plant. Everything that grows will come from those 2 limbs.

If you are new at topping or training a quadline may be easier and more forgiving. This method uses 4 limbs total hence the quad.... The cool thing is we can hook you up with the QuadSquad or whatever the group name is and they will guide you in every step of the way, just in case.... Quadline group << here’s the link

just know this... you don’t bend a plant into place in one day. Bend a little and tie it down, wait a full day, then bend a little more and tie it down.... slow and steady wins this race.

 

[Ganja Goose]

So I gave the EC measurement a try with my new Sensi Star seedlings at the 10 day mark. Fed them 0.8 EC last week when they were at 10 days and then straight water once since then. To @013 point, when I measured the runoff this morning at the second feed (1.0 EC solution), the runoff measured 3.3 EC!! Was hoping to see 0.8 plus/minus a bit.

I'm growing in soil (Promix HP with mycorrhizae) again. As I mentioned earlier, I experienced very high run off with the UBC Chemo plant previously, but I had fed way to much thru its life and the runoff was literally off the charts. No really sure what is going on other than I probably need to water a few times now to get the EC down?

GG

 

[013]

What’s up Big Daddy GG?

I don’t check ph or ppm on the input side.... I know many folks do and that’s how they were taught so that’s perfectly ok. But never change your inputs to adjust the output ph or ppm... thats a long dark rabbit hole you don’t need to fall into.

but as always there’s many ways to grow - so please consider all opinions

 

[Cornercat]

Soil can hold waay more nutrients in forms that won't burn the plant. Comparing output to input is only useful when using plain media. Most soils have enough nutrients to carry a seedling through the first few weeks of vegetative growth before needing to supplement. Pour some distilled water through a pot of just your promix and it'll probably measure high right out of the bag. Maybe that out-of-the-bag EC should be your baseline to maintain. Your seedling looks perfect right now so I wouldn't worry yet just monitor everything you can and watch for patterns.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Thanks everyone. I like that idea of measuring the soil right out of the bag. Will help establish a baseline I think

GG

 

[OldMedUser]

I'm growing in soil (Promix HP with mycorrhizae) again. As I mentioned earlier, I experienced very high run off with the UBC Chemo plant previously, but I had fed way to much thru its life and the runoff was literally off the charts. No really sure what is going on other than I probably need to water a few times now to get the EC down?

You're not growing in soil, you're growing in a soilless mix that I've used for over 10 years with AN nutes. Don't mess with the pH as AN 3-part already has the pH Perfect technology built in. You'll screw it up if you try adjusting the pH.

You're getting a higher runoff EC because there are minerals in the mix from the calcitic and dolomitic lime they add to it.

I mainly start little plants in a decent size pot using 1ml/L of all 3 parts. A 1-1-1 ratio of Grow, Micro, Bloom. Once established and growing well I'll switch to a 3-2-1 ratio of GMB for vegging at 2ml/L every 2nd watering. Then a week before the flip feed well with 2ml/L of a 1-1-1 ratio and a half dose of Big Bud powder and full dose of CalMag as I use RO or distilled water only. I generally just use a half dose of CalMag on water only days.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Thanks @OldMedUser I really appreciate the input. It makes sense that the runoff would then have a higher EC. Maybe explains why my previous grow when I measured EC it was off the charts. So when people ask what my grow medium is, what do I say if it isn't considered soil? Or would it be considered soil and I just need to consider the run off factor?

Please don't take any of my resulting questions a sign of disrespect or that I am discounting your feedback in any shape or form. I'm pretty new at this and I am in the process of climbing this learning curve. From what I understand about AN is that they are fairly concentrated right out of the bottle, and would only result in a suitable PH if used in the concentrations as prescribed on the bottle? I'm using a fairly alkaline tap water (8.4) and combined with the fact that I'm diluting AN prescribed amounts such that I achieve an appropriate EC of around 0.8 for my seedling, I find I need to PH down to get even below 7.

I have heard growers using AN in just the fashion you describe during veg (31) and then shift the ratios for flower(13). I think I'm going to try that in a future grow, but for now I decided to stick to the 11 as I've changed a few other factors in my grow.

GG

 

[OldMedUser]

Thanks @OldMedUser I really appreciate the input. It makes sense that the runoff would then have a higher EC. Maybe explains why my previous grow when I measured EC it was off the charts. So when people ask what my grow medium is, what do I say if it isn't considered soil? Or would it be considered soil and I just need to consider the run off factor?

Please don't take any of my resulting questions a sign of disrespect or that I am discounting your feedback in any shape or form. I'm pretty new at this and I am in the process of climbing this learning curve. From what I understand about AN is that they are fairly concentrated right out of the bottle, and would only result in a suitable PH if used in the concentrations as prescribed on the bottle? I'm using a fairly alkaline tap water (8.4) and combined with the fact that I'm diluting AN prescribed amounts such that I achieve an appropriate EC of around 0.8 for my seedling, I find I need to PH down to get even below 7.

I have heard growers using AN in just the fashion you describe during veg (31) and then shift the ratios for flower(13). I think I'm going to try that in a future grow, but for now I decided to stick to the 11 as I've changed a few other factors in my grow.

GG

Look on the list of ingredients on you bale of ProMix. HP has no soil listed so is considered a soilless medium. It's all peat moss. People call stuff like that soil but it's not. I used to use Sunshine Mix #4 but then the HP came along and it's much better. #4 needed lots of perlite to be added but if anything HP has too much and I've often used it right out of the bale and just soak it down with my nute mix when I transplant. I even mix up the nutes to pre-moisten the stuff when it dries out. Use a pin to poke a bunch of holes in the cap off a milk jug and then fill the jug to make a handy sprayer. I'll put a few litres of promix in a tub, break up any lumps then soak it down a bit, add more promix, soak then repeat as needed to make enough mix for what I'm doing. When filling a few 4 gal pots I spread a tarp out and mix it all in a big pile. Would love to get a small electric cement mixer for mixing that stuff. lol

After the stretch I switch to feeding Lucas Formula style as in a 0-1-2 ratio with added Big Bud then only use some extra K, S and carbo 'til the end.

When you say you are feeding 0.8EC does that include the EC of your probably hard tap water? Those minerals in that water add to the salts load and build up over time to totally skew your pH in the medium. The plants drink the water and most of the minerals that came with it get left behind like the scale in a kettle. I got tired of buying 5 jugs of RO a week at the store so just invested $500 in my own RO system. Needed extra filtration and a UV sterilizer as my tap water comes from a dugout on my property and is 400+ppm and over pH8 most of the time. We already filter down to 5 micron so my RO unit will have 1 micron filter → standard carbon filter → 0.5 micron carbon filter → RO filter → branch off for grow water → UV sterilizer → branch off for coffee maker water → then a Carbon/Calcite filter to 'polish' the water to make it tasty and add some minerals to the water for drinking. In 6 months or less it will pay for itself and the input water is free.

I've known a few people in forums that mess with the pH using AN nutes and it never works out well. Same with those that go out and buy all the unneeded and expensive supplements. I've used mostly AN for 20 years and it still works great tho trying MegaCrop and some REMO nutes now too. Got those for nothing and my 1gal jugs of the 3-part AN are getting to be 40 or 5 years old. I need to grow more to use them up faster or be wasteful with them like most hydro growers are.

From what I understand about AN is that they are fairly concentrated right out of the bottle, and would only result in a suitable PH if used in the concentrations as prescribed on the bottle?

Not very concentrated at all. The numbers on the bottles are percentage so the Grow in particular has little in it. I mixed up 2 35L tubs and kept track of the ppm for each nute at 1ml/L but can't find the breakdown notes atm. 1ml/L of each came out almost bang on 300ppm so you could use that as a guide when mixing up your nutes. You did get calibration solutions for your EC and pH pens I hope. Plus you should have storage sol'n for the pH pen to keep it in between uses. A spray bottle with RO or distilled water should be at hand to rinse both probes after use before putting them away or between tests. You can get distilled water cheap at the drug store to fill the sprayer and a $3 gallon will last for a long time if just used for that. For the EC pen the probes should be allowed to dry out between uses so leave the cap off after rinsing until the next day so they can dry. NEVER let the pH probe go dry and if it does soak it in storage sol'n for 24 hours before re-calibrating and using again.

If you want more trouble-free growing I'd look into using RO water then retire your nice new pH pen like I did years ago. For either DWC or plants grown in pots I never even think of checking pH. So much easier.

 

[Ganja Goose]

Yes exactly the case - I do include the EC of my water within the overall solution EC. In the case of my water it is 0.4 - 0.5. I recognize this is quite high but just thought that the nutrient portion would increase as I made upward adjustments to the EC over time and that it would not be an issue. I did not account for the fact that the minerals in my water would stay behind and build up in the pot, which appears to be exactly whats happening. Thank you for that insight. I see that measuring run off might not always be a suitable practice and it will depend on your medium.

I ran some of my tap water thru a fresh pot of my medium and the resulting run off was 1.8 EC. I think it might be time to make some adjustments........

GG

 

[Bigjake8]

I ran the 3 part an at 30% and ph always in range every time I'd add any ph down or up I always had issues my batteries finally went dead in my ph gauge and haven't replaced them over a year ago and no problem I switched to sense line and not impressed I'm going back to 3 part to dial in better

 

[OldMedUser]

I ran the 3 part an at 30% and ph always in range every time I'd add any ph down or up I always had issues my batteries finally went dead in my ph gauge and haven't replaced them over a year ago and no problem I switched to sense line and not impressed I'm going back to 3 part to dial in better

When they first came out with the pH Perfect stuff I was skeptical and still had lots of the older 3 part left from gallon jugs I'd got in 2001.

I finally broke down and bought 1L jugs of the 2-part Sensi Grow to veg with and the same in in the Connoisseur for Bloom. I had a lot of problems with toxic salts buildup causing leaves to start burning bad and going all crispy about mid-flower and thought it was the nutes. Turned out it was because my RH was so low all the time that even at half strength I was overfeeding because the plants were going through so much water and taking up more nutes than they could use. I can still have the same issues with the 3-part so it's not the nutes but the environment.

Something I found weird was I couldn't get proper pH readings from the AN nutes. This was with a near new pen freshly calibrated and it wasn't a cheapo either. It's an Oakton/Eutech that cost me $75. I went back to school in my 30s for 3 years to get a diploma in Environmental chemistry so I know what I'm doing as well. I could measure anything else with it fine so it's got to be the buffers they use or something.

Since then I've just mixed them up and fed them to the plants in DWC or potted plants and never had any issues I could blame on pH. I've even used the Rhino Skin for silica and know it raises pH lots but it must be designed to work with the nutes because I never had issues with that either. With regular potassium silicate it should be pH adjusted as it raises pH to 10. It should be added alone when just watering the plants for best results as well.