Old School

[Jackalope]

I was gifted a ton of older genetics years ago. Since that time those genetics have been shared and sent all over. Lots of those genetics were shared with the people on or around 420 mag.

With all the new genetics out there. I am really happy to find these old school strains becoming favorites in peoples gardens. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying don't upgrade your genetics. I mostly am saying don't look past the old stuff either.

Great weed can be found in lots of places. Not all of the genetics that were sent out are still on the market. Thing is some are. I am not saying all the old strains that are still on the market after all this time are great. Some are. If they are still on the market there is probably a good reason why.

 

[irie lion]

Hey @Jackalope - fully agree brother! The new generation strains really are next level lets be honest. But it is always a treat smoking the originals, even if the thc% is not up there compared to the new stuff.

 

[Jackalope]

It is all in the effects and longevity. That is where the biggest difference is between new and old.

While lots of new strains have a higher THC content. How are the effects? Most of the REALLY strong stuff has a similar high as concentrates. They come on like gangbusters but dwindle fairly fast. Only takes a hit or 2 to get back there so that's nice. The major part of the high comes in the first 1/2 hour and then starts to dwindle from there.

One of the main things I have found about old school strains. They do a hell of a lot more with the THC they have. It is all in the effects. I have found much more rounded highs plus longer lasting highs in my old genetics. Something "Some" of the power house strains lack.

Personally I am going to need them both to get by LMAO.

 

[irie lion]

Agreed!

 

[Jackalope]

What is really funny. Some of the new strains out there are just REALLy special plants of old strains.

The longer some of these strains are grown we start finding the 1 in a million phenotypes. You see it the most in the Og strains. Each cut is slightly different. Then they are selfed and feminized. Making even more opportunities for that 1 in a million plant to show up.

It is these crosses that we start finding different mixes of terpenes that when selfed become their own strain. In some cases there is extreme differences between the new and the old. Thing is it is still the genetically the same strain.

How stable the parents of a hybrid matter on F-1 hybrids. It also matters when plants are selfed and feminized. A stable plant that is selfed will be close to 50% exactly like mom with some variation in the others. Strains that are not as stable will have a lower percentage of plants just like mom but will have a wider variance in other phenos. From what I have found. It is in these variances that a lot special plants exist.

I said when this is done. It is still the same strain. Is it? When phenotypes have totally different smells and flavors. Their terpene profiles are different. Changing how the high will affect you. If flavors and highs are different between 2 plants of the same strain/genetics is it the same strain?

 

[honkonitpopo]

I was gifted a ton of older genetics years ago. Since that time those genetics have been shared and sent all over. Lots of those genetics were shared with the people on or around 420 mag.

With all the new genetics out there. I am really happy to find these old school strains becoming favorites in peoples gardens. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying don't upgrade your genetics. I mostly am saying don't look past the old stuff either.

Great weed can be found in lots of places. Not all of the genetics that were sent out are still on the market. Thing is some are. I am not saying all the old strains that are still on the market after all this time are great. Some are. If they are still on the market there is probably a good reason why.

If I could like this 40 times I would. I've mentioned briefly around here about my beliefs....that breeding specifically for high thc can wreak havoc on the rest of the cannabinoid profile which works synergistically with the thc. I know I'm a burnout but I've tried lots of high thc cannabis that might give me a lift for 10-15 minutes and then whatever else I smoke after does nothing. One of my goals is to preserve old genetics for this very reason. Anytime I ever smoke a "throwback" strain(usually local strains that havent changed in decades), I'm better off than the "kush" that dissappoints me 95% of the time despite looking/smelling amazing. A few decades ago weed that smelled/looked that good would be 4x more effective in my opinion, and I know it's not just my tolerance.

I have a mexican sativa currently that looks and grows, well, like a weed. Fast, resilient, and has got to be used to lots of stresses. At least the end result wont be dried in the sun and stuffed into god knows what . I plan to breed it into some newer strains.

 

[honkonitpopo]

What is really funny. Some of the new strains out there are just REALLy special plants of old strains.

The longer some of these strains are grown we start finding the 1 in a million phenotypes. You see it the most in the Og strains. Each cut is slightly different. Then they are selfed and feminized. Making even more opportunities for that 1 in a million plant to show up.

It is these crosses that we start finding different mixes of terpenes that when selfed become their own strain. In some cases there is extreme differences between the new and the old. Thing is it is still the genetically the same strain.

How stable the parents of a hybrid matter on F-1 hybrids. It also matters when plants are selfed and feminized. A stable plant that is selfed will be close to 50% exactly like mom with some variation in the others. Strains that are not as stable will have a lower percentage of plants just like mom but will have a wider variance in other phenos. From what I have found. It is in these variances that a lot special plants exist.

I said when this is done. It is still the same strain. Is it? When phenotypes have totally different smells and flavors. Their terpene profiles are different. Changing how the high will affect you. If flavors and highs are different between 2 plants of the same strain/genetics is it the same strain?

Good question. I used to see genetic drift in animals where nothing else may be different for them other than the water was from a different well and the barns inner walls were a different colour and height. These were standardized lines where no genetic variations were present, only environmental. I learned a lot about genetics then, and genetic drift in the animal and plant world doesnt look that different from each other. Big difference between drift and shift however...

Personally, I think it just ensures the survival of the species and allows for adaptability over time in relation to environment.

 

[Jackalope]

I think it is more than something like drift or shift in genetics. Marijuana plants are more like people. Even with everything the same there is going to be some individuality. Yes there are going to be phenotypes. Even within those phenotypes there is going to be some variations.

The most stable strain I have grown is Cinderella 99. As much as they are alike there are differences between plants. The combinations of bud tightness, crystal amounts smells and flavors make the combinations endless.

We all see individuality in animals. Early on all puppies and kittens have their own personalities. There is something more to it than just genetic makeup to everything.

 

[Mark Gordan Smith]

Thank you for the Cindy99 lead. Been looking at her info, interesting! She can go outdoor.

 

[Jackalope]

Not sure. In the right environment I am sure it will. The special thing about C-99 is its indoor traits. The fact that it is a sativa that is short and fast puts it in a class of its own. All that makes it special indoors may be lost outdoors.

Still it's a great strain. Now that they are available again Go with the Grimm Cinderella 99 they are the real deal and it shows.

 

[honkonitpopo]

I think it is more than something like drift or shift in genetics. Marijuana plants are more like people. Even with everything the same there is going to be some individuality. Yes there are going to be phenotypes. Even within those phenotypes there is going to be some variations.

The most stable strain I have grown is Cinderella 99. As much as they are alike there are differences between plants. The combinations of bud tightness, crystal amounts smells and flavors make the combinations endless.

We all see individuality in animals. Early on all puppies and kittens have their own personalities. There is something more to it than just genetic makeup to everything.

What you are talking is still genetic drift and/or shift in a semantic sense. From what I was taught from lead geneticists, there is roughly a 10 percent chance that ANYTHING remotely possible can happen. This is factored in a fancy formula as a variable. You are spot on with plants being like people, as their level of self awareness is quite high. Although what you describe is certainly genetic shift type stuff, those same lead geneticists wont have a solid answer about why it actually occurs, which,like you said has to do with a level of self awareness plants have. So I agree with you but it's still drift(different phenos from the same strain) and shift(it did something not related to other phenos or recessive traits) which is the age old arguement of genetics and environment which shouldn't be an age old argument. Lol. The 10% likelihood of really weird stuff=the "something more" you refer to. In my opinion as what was drilled into my head as a genetic selector. Hell, I've seen things with with two heads that werent a double ovulate, just bloody mutants. Genetics can go horribly wrong in both the plant and animal world, the difference being in the plant world it can still be favorable.

Many years ago I had a cat knock down a running cfl which pissed the mercury vapors all over some seedlings I had. A normal looking seedling that got hit the most with normal first leaves and a normal second set suddenly started showing traits of triploidy...which doesn't even make any lick of sense, unless the week old plant suddenly started mating with itself and had 3 sets of identical chromosomes. Or the mercury brought out a recessive gene? Again, not very plausible. The plant was not damaged in any other way causing topping or etc. It grew into a true triploid. I think there are also so many variables and modern chems and pollutants in our enviroment(air pollution, trace amounts of medications in tap water) that the 10% odds could increase or just be really really weird. Us cultivators try to know and choose the best for our plants(if one can afford it) but we dont know the ppm of the pollutants in the seeming fresh air coming in or whats hiding in our water sources that cant be removed or neutralized...

I also heard from a tobacco farmer that the reason all the plants are so uniform and always express the same drought resistence is due to the plants history of being genetically modified using all sorts of things, including radiation. I love all this crazy stuff. Hell even trees near powerlines are affected by the electrical field of the powerlines. Some have experimented with emf's with varying results.

No one has told me off yet, all this is just what I've learned and is IMO I guess my ex-wife taught me to expect confrontation lmao. I'm always up for being corrected or learning something new. If anyone figures out that mercury seedling I'd sure like to know.

 

[Jackalope]

I try my best to not get to technical with things LMAO. Mostly because I don't have the education to do it. Me with a 9th grade education and a GED will see things totally different than someone with a college degree. When both grow for a long time there are still going to see things differently. Both will be learning, they will just have different ways to explain them. It is like when the trichome "fairies" show up. I am sure you scientific types probably have a name for this LMAO. It is all I can do to understand everything that is going on. I don't have the need or the ability to try and explain them LOL.

About the poly plant. Or what I refer to as a poly plant, if is the same as yours. It started coming out with sets of 3 leaves instead of 2? I have had plants do this on their own. Some may be environment the others I don't know. Lots of times it will happen to one branch and not the others. I super crop and don't top so stress still could have caused it just like topping does.

No telling if it was the VAPORS or just a plant being a plant. In one way or the other I am finding it more and more when growing. It has become something I notice but ignore.

As you have mentioned environmentals have more to do with plants then lots of us realize. Sometimes it is more than just food water light and temp.

 

[honkonitpopo]

I try my best to not get to technical with things LMAO. Mostly because I don't have the education to do it. Me with a 9th grade education and a GED will see things totally different than someone with a college degree. When both grow for a long time there are still going to see things differently. Both will be learning, they will just have different ways to explain them. It is like when the trichome "fairies" show up. I am sure you scientific types probably have a name for this LMAO. It is all I can do to understand everything that is going on. I don't have the need or the ability to try and explain them LOL.

About the poly plant. Or what I refer to as a poly plant, if is the same as yours. It started coming out with sets of 3 leaves instead of 2? I have had plants do this on their own. Some may be environment the others I don't know. Lots of times it will happen to one branch and not the others. I super crop and don't top so stress still could have caused it just like topping does.

No telling if it was the VAPORS or just a plant being a plant. In one way or the other I am finding it more and more when growing. It has become something I notice but ignore.

As you have mentioned environmentals have more to do with plants then lots of us realize. Sometimes it is more than just food water light and temp.

I doubt I will ever know, although all 3 seeds that were there were the same and didnt have a history of it..and the only one that did was coated.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone....

 

[Oldgrowth]

I think it is more than something like drift or shift in genetics. Marijuana plants are more like people. Even with everything the same there is going to be some individuality. Yes there are going to be phenotypes. Even within those phenotypes there is going to be some variations.

The most stable strain I have grown is Cinderella 99. As much as they are alike there are differences between plants. The combinations of bud tightness, crystal amounts smells and flavors make the combinations endless.

We all see individuality in animals. Early on all puppies and kittens have their own personalities. There is something more to it than just genetic makeup to everything.

LOOKS ARE IMPORTANT. Thank you Jackalope, I have learned so much from your posts, and those of other growers. For me another blessing given us by variation is the look. I grow outdoors, out back where my ladies at 3-4 ft on Memorial Day already promise to be beautiful trees affording much pleasure to an old man's gaze as our summer meanders on. I always grow at least one Kush plant, because I love her angular shape and hue, I also admire the GG4's altho they look very different and lovely in their own classic lush female contours. It's another joy of gardening.

 

[Jackalope]

As a old man myself I can understand how you feel. So much different outdoors than indoors. Mostly just lots more to look at LOL. You still train outdoor plants but they get a little better opportunity to be themselves. Indoors we have to control height and width to the extent we never really get to see what a plant really looks like.

Big outdoor plants is something I have always wanted try.