PH balanced my ass

[fanleaf]

So
I fed my first flower nutes tonight and read the bottles of the nutes that I just bought today which were
FF Open Sesame/Beastie Bloomz and ChaChing.

The first thing I read on all of these products is "PH Balanced" so I thought great, easier to deal with right???? WRONG!! So I mixed up the nutes in what I always use, distilled water and guess what the ph was? it was in the high 4's!!! What the heck is that for ph balanced?

What am I missing here? By "PH Balanced" is there something I should know that I dont? I read the bottle and think to myself ok so the ph will be really close to where I'm needing it just to find it's so far acidic it's crazy.
Someone smart please tell me what I'm missing there please.

I know many of you get away with mixing your nutes and never ph'ing anything however that don't work for me at all. My plant will lock me out in a heartbeat. My FFOF is very acidic on every runoff. I work hard to keep it even at a 6 as far as runoff goes. Heck, when I started my plant I always ph'ed my distilled water or distilled with nutes to 6.5 until one day I had lockout and tested the runoff at 5.1. Without treating my soil with lime this grow has shown to be a nightmare to keep ph up to 6 and that's still low.This has been with new soil nothing added.

I had that ph problem before I even started using nutes with my plant so I know it's not the nutes causing it. What gives?

 

[zakey]

I'd start at the beginning and track from there.
Check ph on your water straight out of tap or what your source is.
Should be around 7

 

[JoseQuervo]

I dunno if it's the same, But I use the "Ph Perfect" nutes. I have gotten some wonky reading from it too. I spoke to some people and they said that is normal. They said it will adjust it's self for what the plants need. I have gotten reading from like 5-7.5 with them. I tried adjusting it once and it didn't really work. It kept making the water all cloudy. But I have been using them for almost a year now and I have never had an ph issue.

 

[zakey]

Yea it's true
I use advanced nutes ph when freshly mixed was always 5.8
It could be the way your mixing there's a set way you need to mix or the chemicals react and screw everything up.
I'd definitely start by checking your main water ph first.
Then check the next step and so on

 

[zakey]

The ph swings aren't suppose to be that big say start at 5.8 then you expect swings of 0.5 each way
There's something not right if there as big as what your getting

 

[fanleaf]

The ph swings aren't suppose to be that big say start at 5.8 then you expect swings of 0.5 each way
There's something not right if there as big as what your getting

I know, ant I just calibrated my meter with the solutions too. I didn't have to change calibration either. It was right on. ph'ing everything at grow room temp, usually 78 degrees. I don't know

 

[Boss1]

I also use advanced ph perfect and i think hands down they are the best but on your topic I've been right were you are with those same nuits and its my opinion that ph balanced would mean that you shouldn't get a huge swing in ph once the ph has been adjusted to the propper level just my take.

 

[zakey]

Ok so I presumed you where only checking run off ph and having issues up top.
That's why I advised checking source of water ph.
If your using a ph buffering product you don't need to change ph.
Soil also has its own buffers no need to change ph.
Technically you shouldn't need to use a ph pen when using your setup.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Run off is the leached remains of water poured through the growing medium !

FFOF contains some nutrients or ferts in the medium for several weeks plus you are feeding nutrients during the week but not sure how often.

Plants are only going to use what nutrients they need the rest just sits in the growing medium & may build up over time becoming acidic hence crappy run off levels.


Might be just feeding to regular tho ?

 

[fanleaf]

Ok so I presumed you where only checking run off ph and having issues up top.
That's why I advised checking source of water ph.
If your using a ph buffering product you don't need to change ph.
Soil also has its own buffers no need to change ph.
Technically you shouldn't need to use a ph pen when using your setup.

No. I'm very critical of what goes in the top. Only use distilled and always ph'ed. When I use nutes I ph after the nutes are added.

 

[fanleaf]

Run off is the leached remains of water poured through the growing medium !

FFOF contains some nutrients or ferts in the medium for several weeks plus you are feeding nutrients during the week but not sure how often.

Plants are only going to use what nutrients they need the rest just sits in the growing medium & may build up over time becoming acidic hence crappy run off levels.


Might be just feeding to regular tho ?

Funny thing is that I flushed her last night using 15 galons of distilled that I ph'ed all the way up to 7.7.
Problem is that halfway through the flush on like gallon number 8 the TDS was down to 70. Yes, 070 and the ph going in the top was 7.7 and straight out the bottom at 6.1. It did that all the way through 15 gallons. NO TDS to speak of and instant change in ph as soon as the water flowed through the soil and out the bottom. So salts cannot be causing this.
I feed once per week along with the FF feeding schedule.

 

[fanleaf]

The ph swings aren't suppose to be that big say start at 5.8 then you expect swings of 0.5 each way
There's something not right if there as big as what your getting

Actually I called Foxfarm last night. The lady I spoke to said 5 sounds about right on after mixing the nutes. She said I should just feed it at 5 because the plant will like the acidic nature. I told her I would if it didnt keep giving me lockout. She said my runoff if even in the mid 5's is fine. BULL

 

[zakey]

So your saying everyone is wrong and you know exactly what your doing ?
If this is the case stop posting multiple post about the same problem asking for help and advise.

Just pulled this of advanced website
And that’s not all: Balance-Free pH Perfect® Technology works around the clock to calibrate and adjust the pH for you, so you never have to use meters or add harsh pH-adjusting chemicals ever again

 

[fanleaf]

So your saying everyone is wrong and you know exactly what your doing ?
If this is the case stop posting multiple post about the same problem asking for help and advise.

Just pulled this of advanced website
And that’s not all: Balance-Free pH Perfect® Technology works around the clock to calibrate and adjust the pH for you, so you never have to use meters or add harsh pH-adjusting chemicals ever again

No Zakey I never said ANYTHING like that. Where the hell did that even come from?
Look man, I'm not the only one who has had this issue nor am I here acting like I know it all. What I am saying is that for someone like me (a new grower) repeat (new grower) it's very hard to quickly figure out what to do in this situation especially when FF tells me 1 thing and fifteen other people tell me otherwise! It's up to me to try to figure it out with all of the advice I can get right? So obviously the lady from FF was at the very least partially wrong because if a runoff ph of 5 was in fact good and healthy and "my plant will love it" when I feed my plant a nute mix at 5.1 then why do I keep getting lockout with nutes ph'ed to 6.8? On top of that I flush and feed at a ph of 6.8-7 and still get runoff in the 5's and it keeps trying to go lower.
What I am saying is that when I flushed down to only 70ppm coming out the bottom my runoff still came out 1.4 points lower than what was going in the top and no matter how much I flushed that wouldnt change. So if I'm at 70ppm what's causing the immediate ph change as the water goes through the soil. As fast as I can pour it in it's coming out totally different.

The only thing I EVER said was wrong is the lady from FF saying everything is good and my plant will love it. Guess what, it don't love it so she is wrong.


To all of those who I may have somehow offended by saying the lady at FF was wrong I'm very sorry. My plant does not like it.

I appreciate all others advice, I really do. Your ideas and experience is pushing me to try things to rectify the issues I'm having.
What I DO KNOW is my plant does not like this and the pics I have shared show that too.

 

[fanleaf]

Just pulled this of advanced website
And that’s not all: Balance-Free pH Perfect® Technology works around the clock to calibrate and adjust the pH for you, so you never have to use meters or add harsh pH-adjusting chemicals ever again

Furthermore zakey
While that's fine and dandy what the hell does anything from the Advanced website with their PH Perfect nutes have ANYTHING to do with my Foxfarm soil and Foxfarm nutes?

I just pulled this off the clalit – Just another WordPress site site....Monthly average prices of farm-gate milk fat 3,1% p.p. prot. 2,8% p.p. CNY/100 kg - € per 100 kg ... It's the price of milk in china!
Not sure why it's relevant but maybe we are just posting random info zakey? Or perhaps skimming threads and not reading them?

 

[zakey]

So I counted 6 posts you've made about the same problem.
In each post you've been given advise as to why your ph is the way it is.
You seem to be ignoring this advise. This is why I asked you my question about everybody being wrong.

The advanced website info is just an example of the info you'll probably find with all nutes that have ph buffers in them.
No not skimming just an example

Just because you pour gallons of water in your soil doesn't mean all chemicals are going to disappear.
Your plant is storing and releasing nutes all the time it will take at least 1-2 weeks before all nutes are gone.
This is why we flush for 1-2weeks before harvest

I suggested you ph your source of water because The pH of pure, distilled water in a vacuum is 7 it is neither acidic nor alkaline. Immediately after distillation, however, water begins absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and it forms carbonic acid a weak acid. This absorption continues until the carbon dioxide concentration in the water is the same as it is in the atmosphere. At this point, the pH of the distilled water is around 5.8 add nutes and this will drop even more.

Hope you don't just disregard this advise for the sake of your girls

 

[fanleaf]

So I counted 6 posts you've made about the same problem.
In each post you've been given advise as to why your ph is the way it is.
You seem to be ignoring this advise. This is why I asked you my question about everybody being wrong.

The advanced website info is just an example of the info you'll probably find with all nutes that have ph buffers in them.
No not skimming just an example

Just because you pour gallons of water in your soil doesn't mean all chemicals are going to disappear.
Your plant is storing and releasing nutes all the time it will take at least 1-2 weeks before all nutes are gone.
This is why we flush for 1-2weeks before harvest

I suggested you ph your source of water because The pH of pure, distilled water in a vacuum is 7 it is neither acidic nor alkaline. Immediately after distillation, however, water begins absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, and it forms carbonic acid a weak acid. This absorption continues until the carbon dioxide concentration in the water is the same as it is in the atmosphere. At this point, the pH of the distilled water is around 5.8 add nutes and this will drop even more.

Hope you don't just disregard this advise for the sake of your girls

Very well put.
So am I doing something wrong? This is how I have been doing it. (I have only used distilled)

Depending on where I get the water I always check the ph.
1 store I get it from comes in at a 6.0 almost always and at 0-8ppm
another store I buy from usually comes in right at 7.0 and 0-8ppm
If watering only I use enough ph up or down ( only takes a few drops) to set it at 6.8
If feeding I add my nutes, shake up the jug and test ph which will usually be somewhere around 5.5. At that point I add enough ph up, usually over a cap full to bring the ph up to 6.8. Shake it well so everything is uniform, check again and then feed.

I always ph everything. Even brand new distilled water. So is there any advice there on anything I'm doing wrong?

Next.
My tap water is at a ph of 8.2 and 260ppm ok?
Dealing with my tap water for my fish aquariums I have noticed an issue that has until this point stopped me from using it in my grow.
In my aquarium I have adjusted the ph to about 7 for my fish using acid. 6-8 hours later the ph is straight back up to 8.2. I adjust it again and again several times a day for over a week to 7.0 before my tap water starts to keep the ph value I set it at. I mean in a 50 gallon aquarium I will go through a ton of acid over a week to get the water to stay at 7.0. Can my tap water be buffered to 8.2 so it fights my attempts to change it?

I ask this because I did an experiment last night that I find very interesting.

I took a gallon jug and filled it with 10-15% tap water and 85-90% distilled water. The initial ph showed 8.2 (same as my tap water usually is right?

So then I added my nutes. 2 tsp Tiger Bloom +1TBS Big Bloom + 1/2 tsp Open Sesame. Initial ph showed 6.0.
So I left the jug with the cap off all of last night and this morning ok? Tested this morning and ph is 6.2-6.3! with no ph up/down.

Should I use that? Looks like if I use 10-15% tap water I need no adjustment at all and (IF) my tap water is buffered it should help keep the ph up in the low to mid 6 area??\
Thanks

 

[zakey]

Are you using aquarium ph up/down ?
The ph of distilled will always be 5.8 after a certain amount of time. (This is what a scientist told me)
In theory if you leave your distilled until it reaches 5.8. Then add small amounts of tap untill you reach 7 then add nutes there should be no need for any ph adjustment.

Just had a quick flick of a few articles they said , hard tap water often almost always has a large buffering capacity. If the pH of the water is too high the buffering capacity makes it difficult to lower the pH to a more appropriate value. Naive attempts to change the pH of water usually fail because buffering effects are ignored

I would advise buying a ro unit more cost affective then buying bottled all the time.

 

[fanleaf]

Are you using aquarium ph up/down ?
The ph of distilled will always be 5.8 after a certain amount of time. (This is what a scientist told me)
In theory if you leave your distilled until it reaches 5.8. Then add small amounts of tap untill you reach 7 then add nutes there should be no need for any ph adjustment.

Just had a quick flick of a few articles they said , hard tap water often almost always has a large buffering capacity. If the pH of the water is too high the buffering capacity makes it difficult to lower the pH to a more appropriate value. Naive attempts to change the pH of water usually fail because buffering effects are ignored

I would advise buying a ro unit more cost affective then buying bottled all the time.

I'm using Generall Hydroponics UP/DOWN.
That gallon I mixed several days ago has stayed rock solid at 6.3 using 10-15% tap and 85-90% distilled with all nutes added and no ph up/down. I'm going to go browse a few RO units now. Thanks

 

[James Dutton]

So your saying everyone is wrong and you know exactly what your doing ?
If this is the case stop posting multiple post about the same problem asking for help and advise.

Just pulled this of advanced website
And that’s not all: Balance-Free pH Perfect® Technology works around the clock to calibrate and adjust the pH for you, so you never have to use meters or add harsh pH-adjusting chemicals ever again

I am offering some friendly constructive advice I have yielded 16 drive cured ounces off of a 600 watt light using advanced nutrients voodoo juice is the best on the market and it has many beneficial bacteria it allows the plant to thrive at higher temperatures which it wouldn't be able to otherwise it would wither and die..
You may want to invest in a freestanding air conditioner because you probably have warm water.. I can only guess but you can definitely help that problem..