Question on Coot's living soil mix and pH

[pointer80]

Hello all, I am growing in coot's mix and was wondering if anybody that grows in this type of soil mix or living soil worries about the ph of their water or soil? I thought I read that living soil will "take care of itself" as far as the ph is concerned. One reason I am asking is I am getting some more than normal yellow leaves and I am in 100 gallon pots and planted my girls June first and they are about 6x6 feet now. I wouldn't think they are lacking anything? I am on well water which is what I used last year with coot's mix but in the ground instead of 100 gallon smart pots. Last year I had smaller holes in the ground and my plants finished without any issues and the plants were bigger. Thanks for the input.

 

[bobrown14]

I run Coots mix and been using the same soil for 4 years. I'm in 7.5gal containers indoors and used RO city water had no issue.

We moved this past winter and I changed to well water thru an RO filter. After 3 weeks of well water I started seeing yellowing on the older lower leaves. I bought a pH pen and tested my well water out of the RO filter and right out of the well.

Turns out our well water has a pH of +9pH and same thing or higher out of the RO filter.

I started adding vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to lower the pH and everything went back to normal. I bought a new RO filter with an added DI (de-ionization filter) haven't installed it yet likely tomorrow.

So yeah check your water pH and your ppms out of your well. My ppms out of the well were like 350ppm so with high pH and that much ppm there's likely a shit ton of Ca and Mg in the water why we have a softener.

We are sitting on top of dolomite limestone so likely where thats coming from. Too much Mg can mess up a good grow. It locks out many other micro and macro nutrients.

 

[pointer80]

I run Coots mix and been using the same soil for 4 years. I'm in 7.5gal containers indoors and used RO city water had no issue.

We moved this past winter and I changed to well water thru an RO filter. After 3 weeks of well water I started seeing yellowing on the older lower leaves. I bought a pH pen and tested my well water out of the RO filter and right out of the well.

Turns out our well water has a pH of +9pH and same thing or higher out of the RO filter.

I started adding vitamin C (ascorbic acid) to lower the pH and everything went back to normal. I bought a new RO filter with an added DI (de-ionization filter) haven't installed it yet likely tomorrow.

So yeah check your water pH and your ppms out of your well. My ppms out of the well were like 350ppm so with high pH and that much ppm there's likely a shit ton of Ca and Mg in the water why we have a softener.

We are sitting on top of dolomite limestone so likely where thats coming from. Too much Mg can mess up a good grow. It locks out many other micro and macro nutrients.

Thanks for the reply, I forgot to mention in my post that I have three in the ground that are not showing no signs of yellowing. Also I don't know why I didn't have issues with this during last years grow with the same well water? Thanks

 

[bobrown14]

In the ground you have unlimited soil and that is a buffer against any water issues. Thats why you dont have issues in ground. Well water changes over time. Drought/seasonal rains even extra use something a neighbor is doing like spreading manure could be anything really.

 

[pointer80]

In the ground you have unlimited soil and that is a buffer against any water issues. Thats why you dont have issues in ground. Well water changes over time. Drought/seasonal rains even extra use something a neighbor is doing like spreading manure could be anything really.

Thanks for the reply. I ph my water and it's between 7.5 and 8.0, which is the same as it always is. I still don't understand the fact that the plants have been in the ground since June 1 and have had the same ph water and they haven't shown any negative signs until now which is about seven weeks later? They are about six feet wide and tall and the stalks are about 2.5 inches in diameter. These are the things I don't understand. Thanks.

 

[Emilya Green]

it sounds to me like you have neglected the microbes and that life in your soil has diminished for whatever reason, so the available nutrients are not there for the plants. Get some RealGrower's Recharge or URB or Voodoo Juice and replentish the microbe population and I bet your yellowing goes away.

 

[pointer80]

it sounds to me like you have neglected the microbes and that life in your soil has diminished for whatever reason, so the available nutrients are not there for the plants. Get some RealGrower's Recharge or URB or Voodoo Juice and replentish the microbe population and I bet your yellowing goes away.

I have used worm castings / kelp tea a few times this season, how do you neglect microbes? Thanks

 

[Nunyabiz]

By keeping your soil alive with microbes by inoculating regularly with mycorrhizae, cover crop, worms or at least regular top dressings of worm castings, LABs, and feeding them with Yucca extract and Ferticell algae with a proper Coots mix then the soil should balance itself pretty well.

However I still pH my water just to make sure, I add very little to my water but it's always enough to bring the pH down to between 6.1 to 6.6 everytime.
I pH just so if something goes sideways then I have that as a data point, just like I keep track of my Temps and humidity and what if anything I put in my water.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have used worm castings / kelp tea a few times this season, how do you neglect microbes? Thanks

Unless your soil is self sustaining, your microbes are dying out. You have to keep new microbes coming in or the feeding cycle will stop. An aerated compost tea is good for doing this, but only if you have targeted the microbes that you wish to grow by providing the specific inputs that you want to produce microbes to process. Kelp and worm castings alone will not even come close to providing the specific microbes you need that are going to process potassium and phosphorus and calcium and iron... and so many others. The EWC provides a broad spectrum of useful and non beneficial microbes, and as such is a good starter for your teas... but you must provide the inputs in the tea appropriate to the stage of grow you are presently in. For instance, if you make a tea specifically targeting Nitrogen producing bacteria, it will not be able to do your plants any good that are in the blooming stage. I used at least 4 different recipes for my teas, depending on where they were at in the grow. All of my teas used EWC to get them started, but then the bacteria that i produced were much different than what you are making.

Luckily, in todays world you don't have to become an expert on compost tea recipes. Many companies now produce the specific bacteria that you need. Realgrower's Recharge is a good wide spectrum product that will supply all of the specific microbes you need. URB and Voodoo Juice are the same, only in liquid form. Products like GeoFlora bring in the specific microbes for either veg or bloom, and the food that they need for that stage of the grow. However you do it, you have got to get the RIGHT microbes on the job... at the moment, you do not.

 

[pointer80]

Unless your soil is self sustaining, your microbes are dying out. You have to keep new microbes coming in or the feeding cycle will stop. An aerated compost tea is good for doing this, but only if you have targeted the microbes that you wish to grow by providing the specific inputs that you want to produce microbes to process. Kelp and worm castings alone will not even come close to providing the specific microbes you need that are going to process potassium and phosphorus and calcium and iron... and so many others. The EWC provides a broad spectrum of useful and non beneficial microbes, and as such is a good starter for your teas... but you must provide the inputs in the tea appropriate to the stage of grow you are presently in. For instance, if you make a tea specifically targeting Nitrogen producing bacteria, it will not be able to do your plants any good that are in the blooming stage. I used at least 4 different recipes for my teas, depending on where they were at in the grow. All of my teas used EWC to get them started, but then the bacteria that i produced were much different than what you are making.

Luckily, in todays world you don't have to become an expert on compost tea recipes. Many companies now produce the specific bacteria that you need. Realgrower's Recharge is a good wide spectrum product that will supply all of the specific microbes you need. URB and Voodoo Juice are the same, only in liquid form. Products like GeoFlora bring in the specific microbes for either veg or bloom, and the food that they need for that stage of the grow. However you do it, you have got to get the RIGHT microbes on the job... at the moment, you do not.

I am definitely confused, I thought coot'd mix among others were "water only" soil mixes? I also thought the microbial life in living soil mixes multiplied if you had the right amendments in the soil to sustain them? Last season I grew 12 plants in this soil and 3 of them were in pots and had no issues at all. Thanks

 

[Emilya Green]

I am definitely confused, I thought coot'd mix among others were "water only" soil mixes? I also thought the microbial life in living soil mixes multiplied if you had the right amendments in the soil to sustain them? Last season I grew 12 plants in this soil and 3 of them were in pots and had no issues at all. Thanks

lots of things can cause the microbes to decline... including chlorinated water. You have done something to reduce the numbers...
I have a very strong minerally enhanced soil... but if I let my microbes die out, it is no more beneficial than any other potting soil. You can also overload the good microbes with those not specialized in that part of the grow, or overwhelm the soil with bad bacteria. Get some Recharge, and that soil will quickly come right back to life.

 

[pointer80]

lots of things can cause the microbes to decline... including chlorinated water. You have done something to reduce the numbers...
I have a very strong minerally enhanced soil... but if I let my microbes die out, it is no more beneficial than any other potting soil. You can also overload the good microbes with those not specialized in that part of the grow, or overwhelm the soil with bad bacteria. Get some Recharge, and that soil will quickly come right back to life.

wheres the best place to purchase recharge? Thanks

 

[bobrown14]

Thanks for the reply. I ph my water and it's between 7.5 and 8.0, which is the same as it always is. I still don't understand the fact that the plants have been in the ground since June 1 and have had the same ph water and they haven't shown any negative signs until now which is about seven weeks later? They are about six feet wide and tall and the stalks are about 2.5 inches in diameter. These are the things I don't understand. Thanks.

pH in the soil will be in the 6-7pH range all the time which is optimal. No amount of water you add from your hose or well will change that. It's pH buffering due the amount of soil.

In container that is the opposite. You have a limited amount of soil so your water pH will eventually have a negative affect on the plants ability it uptake nutrients as the soil pH rises over time.

My well water tests at between 9-10pH. It took about 3 weeks to start seeing nutrient deficit. I started adding in ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to drop my pH down to between 6-7pH and everything started clicking in a few days.

Coots mix you will have the microbes from your compost input. They will be there in spades.

There's been some scientific studies on the efficacy of compost tea brewing. I've always been a proponent of it until I read the science. Basically you're better off just top dressing with compost and watering in thru that top dress compost.

The idea behind what I said about compost teas are that you're just diluting the compost with water for nutrients and regarding microbes there have been studies that show you can NOT get repeatable results from one brew to the next.

I tried several different microbial inputs and I haven't been able to tell if it made any difference. If $30 gives you peace of mind and that's worth it for you then go spend the money. I did and have been able to grow fine with or without I didnt see any difference.

My coots soil is from 2016 and I've grown 20+ rounds in it with minimal amending usually with a handful of compost, ewc and kelp meal. I'll always toss in a 1/2 cup of malted barley ground fine at up-pot. Toss some of that on top of you soil you have stashed in a bin come back in a few days and take a peak. There's your soil microbes.

 

[pointer80]

pH in the soil will be in the 6-7pH range all the time which is optimal. No amount of water you add from your hose or well will change that. It's pH buffering due the amount of soil.

In container that is the opposite. You have a limited amount of soil so your water pH will eventually have a negative affect on the plants ability it uptake nutrients as the soil pH rises over time.

My well water tests at between 9-10pH. It took about 3 weeks to start seeing nutrient deficit. I started adding in ascorbic acid (vitamin C) to drop my pH down to between 6-7pH and everything started clicking in a few days.

Coots mix you will have the microbes from your compost input. They will be there in spades.

There's been some scientific studies on the efficacy of compost tea brewing. I've always been a proponent of it until I read the science. Basically you're better off just top dressing with compost and watering in thru that top dress compost.

The idea behind what I said about compost teas are that you're just diluting the compost with water for nutrients and regarding microbes there have been studies that show you can NOT get repeatable results from one brew to the next.

I tried several different microbial inputs and I haven't been able to tell if it made any difference. If $30 gives you peace of mind and that's worth it for you then go spend the money. I did and have been able to grow fine with or without I didnt see any difference.

My coots soil is from 2016 and I've grown 20+ rounds in it with minimal amending usually with a handful of compost, ewc and kelp meal. I'll always toss in a 1/2 cup of malted barley ground fine at up-pot. Toss some of that on top of you soil you have stashed in a bin come back in a few days and take a peak. There's your soil microbes.

thanks for the reply. Where is the best place to get vitamin C in the form I need? Thanks

 

[bobrown14]

I got a nice large container of acorbic acid in powder form from A-zon.

I remedied my RO water pH being high with adding a DI filter (de-ionization). Now my pH swings up and down when I swoosh the water around and the ppms are ZERO so pretty much pure water and after the water settles and sits a bit, I have 6.5pH or very close.

I just installed a DI filter as a 4th stage to my RO filter system yesterday. Now I have my watering set up to be automatic. I dont have to water manually any more. WOOT.

Let hope it stays that way.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Coots mix can be basically water only although really its more designed to have at least some inputs such as Sprouted Seed Tea to add cytokines and Triacontanol, a good top dress of compost before flower.

Water only is more like a Super Soil

I always re-inoculate with microbes every two weeks just for peace of mind and to make absolutely certain that my soil is teaming with as much diversified life as possible.
Microbes are the fuel that powers the whole soil microbiome and I want a full tank chomping away.

 

[pointer80]

Coots mix can be basically water only although really its more designed to have at least some inputs such as Sprouted Seed Tea to add cytokines and Triacontanol, a good top dress of compost before flower.

Water only is more like a Super Soil

I always re-inoculate with microbes every two weeks just for peace of mind and to make absolutely certain that my soil is teaming with as much diversified life as possible.
Microbes are the fuel that powers the whole soil microbiome and I want a full tank chomping away.

whats your method to add more microbial life

 

[Nunyabiz]

whats your method to add more microbial life

Rootwise Microbe Complete
Rootwise Biophos
Rootwise Elixir
Worms
Malted Barley
Bokashi

And Sprouted Seed Teas for enzymes.

 

[pointer80]

Rootwise Microbe Complete
Rootwise Biophos
Rootwise Elixir
Worms
Malted Barley
Bokashi

And Sprouted Seed Teas for enzymes.

when you mention worms do you mean castings? Thanks

 

[Nunyabiz]

when you mention worms do you mean castings? Thanks

I actually have hundreds of worms in my pots, but good quality worm castings is fine also, just need to be fresh.