Radogast: Grow Big Or Go Home

[Radogast]

Last night I discovered the solution to my lighting timing.

They make a 110v contactors (110v refers to the trigger voltage not the load voltage which may be up to 600v on most larger contactors) that can be expanded with modular units. A 12 pole, single phase 20 amp contactor can switch 6 pairs of wires/ (6) 20 amp circuits based on a single 110/120v signal - as in a single 120V timer of moderate amperage can be wired to a contactor box which will flip (6) 20 amp circuits on and off. The units I looked at were certified for 6,000 on/off cycles at 40 amp (double voltage) - which translates into 16 years of daily on/off cycles at double amperage and essentially forever at 20 amps or less.

---bottom line ---
For about 300 dollars per room (2 flower, 1 or 2 veg), using standard circuit breakers and standard outlets, I can add an inline box which will switch multiple circuits on and off. Installed AFTER the building inspections.

Simple.

I'm happy.

- - -

That said, there is a delay. The building I have designed and planned for will not be available for use, so I am searching for a new building. It will probably take about two to three weeks to find a new building. My wife has promised to assemble a 'Top Five' list by next friday (one week.)

While the core elements of design are transferrable, I can't order any material to be delivered until I have a new address, as I'm not going to be dragging pallets of supplies and building materials between locations.

2-3 week setback. I'll spend the next two days consolidating my notes so I don't forget what the heck I was planning on when the time comes to create a modified shopping list. I have an exceptionally inconvenient memory, so it is possible for me to forget many design choices I spent days making within the next 2-3 weeks if I don't carefully record the model numbers and logic behind my choices.

Tally-ho.
Cheers.
Once more through the breach!
The show must go on!

 

[Tead]

I bought the TItan Helios line with 12 outlets. You can wire them for 110v, but 220v is much more efficient and will save a touch on wire costs. It's got 2 triggers that control either the left or right side outlets. It's a real champ. Luv it. I considered building my own, but it was cheap enough that I just purchased that piece instead.

 

[Radogast]

I bought the TItan Helios line with 12 outlets. You can wire them for 110v, but 220v is much more efficient and will save a touch on wire costs. It's got 2 triggers that control either the left or right side outlets. It's a real champ. Luv it. I considered building my own, but it was cheap enough that I just purchased that piece instead.

That makes sense for 6 lights on and 6 lights off where power cords reach the same location.

I was looking at 20 lights on and 20 lights off in two 40' foot rows with 4 lights in an alternate location.

Spacing of lights vs power cords becomes an issue.

With (3) 4 pole contactors wired togther in a plastic box I can switch (6) 20 amp circuits with 6 lights per circuit for a total of 36 lights. The cost is $230 for the contactors and official plastic box. I run the 12-2 wire in one side, out the other, and a two wire cord from a standard 120v timer to signal the contactor to switch all the circuits on or off.



The additional cost is outlet boxes and outlets vs ordering 20ft power cords,
and multiple 20-amp circuit breakers vs 100-amp circuit breakers to the titan units.

Different features are synchrous start (OK for LEDs) vs serialized starting (Needed for HID ballasts)

- - - price comparison - - -

$300 + wiring costs for 36 lights vs. $380 for 12 lights.


The main advantage is synchronizing outlets at diverse locations through reliable means.

I have the flexibility of having small rooms with outlets pre-wired to the Flowering A, Flowering B, and Veg schedules. This gives me a chance to:

• Flower regular seeds in isolation before moving the females into the general population
• isolate flowering plants that may have bugs from the general population for intensive treatment
• hold larger late veg plants if some flowering girls are taking a longer time to harvest
• force flower at 11/13 before moving to 12/12

 

[Radogast]

I was diggin around in likely, but unlikely places, to find seeds and I found an empty stash jar containing Blue Dream S1 fem, Ultra Dog F2 reg, and Ultra Dog F3 Reg. Presumably the Ultra Dog are from LembaToast as backcrossed and came to me along a mighty friendly path.

While I'm looking for a new property, I could try to grow some mothers for cloning.

Is it safe to assume Blue Dream S1 fem seeds are relatively stable so one Blue dream seed is the same as the other?



I suspect there is a little more diversity to the Ultra Dog so that it might make sense to grow multiples and pheno hunt.

Does it make sense to look for F2 and F3 mothers, or should I just look for F3 mothers?




I don't believe anyone ever tested this strain, but it was respected a few years ago.

 

[kelticBlue]

Not sure if you saw this journal yet, about UltraDog breeding
Lazyfish Journal

 

[Amy Gardner]

safe to assume Blue Dream S1 fem seeds are relatively stable so one Blue dream seed is the same as the other?

I have blue dream seeds that came to me via a friendly parh and they may be the same as yours.
If so, it’s an S1 of an already feminised line so I think that means (and I’m still trying to get my understanding around this) it can open up some genetic diversity.

I grew one and it was Uncharacteristically massively bushy with extremely close nodes and didn’t stretch hardly at all... then threw a ton of nanners before it finished.

So that sounds like I’m bagging it out when actually the buds i got wet fantastic!

I just wanted to mention that in case the seed source is the same.

 

[bobrown14]

I was diggin around in likely, but unlikely places, to find seeds and I found an empty stash jar containing Blue Dream S1 fem, Ultra Dog F2 reg, and Ultra Dog F3 Reg. Presumably the Ultra Dog are from LembaToast as backcrossed and came to me along a mighty friendly path.

While I'm looking for a new property, I could try to grow some mothers for cloning.

Is it safe to assume Blue Dream S1 fem seeds are relatively stable so one Blue dream seed is the same as the other?



I suspect there is a little more diversity to the Ultra Dog so that it might make sense to grow multiples and pheno hunt.

Does it make sense to look for F2 and F3 mothers, or should I just look for F3 mothers?




I don't believe anyone ever tested this strain, but it was respected a few years ago.

Sticky grows UD - I'd go with that one.. I'm not a Blue Dream fan. I guess its ok for commercial but I got a higher bar.

UD is good Sticky likes it so good nuff for me.

 

[Radogast]

Sticky grows UD - I'd go with that one.. I'm not a Blue Dream fan. I guess its ok for commercial but I got a higher bar.

UD is good Conrad and Sticky like it so good nuff for me.

I ordered (1) veg light bar to be express shipped to me (from China) so I can test out my design of vegging in racks. I'll try to grow some clone mothers and see how long they take to veg in LEDs.

In the past I have vegged slow under T5HO because I was limitted by flowering space. I would like to try vegging quickly under LEDs so I can guestimate how much time to spend on different veg shelves.

Blue Dream is a favorite of my stepdaughter. I can grow her a plant or two while I'm experimenting with the lights.


I went through the ACE catalog last night and was attracted to:

30-34% THC - 100% Sativa - Golden Tiger Breeders pack - Fem F1/F3 -14 weeks flower - high yield + Fire
21% THC - 70% Indica - Bubba Kush x Nepal Jam - Fem S1 - 7 weeks flower - high THC Indica
18% THC - 90% Indica - Bubba Hash - Fem F1 - 8.5 weeks flower - high yield, big colas
15-22% THC - 70% Sativa - Zamaldelica x Nepal Jam - Fem Poly - 9 weeks in flower - Fast flowering Sativa



I'm still trying to find my seed stash, I'd like to grow Labyrinth again.
I don't feel like I ever gave Devil's Tit a fair run before I had to shut down.
Do you recall who the breeder of those strains were?

I also might like to grow a couple of strains with East Coast Sour Diesel and Cinderella 99 heritage.

Eventually, I'm looking for 8 strains, mostly 7-9 week flowering, to run in perpetual. I might sort through 15 or more strains, growing several seeds each, to find my 8 perpetual cuts.

 

[kelticBlue]

Devil's Tit

if i recall
snowhigh?
@bobrown14

 

[Radogast]

if i recall
snowhigh?
@bobrown14

Thanks - just spent 2 hours looking up the AVAILable SNOW HIGH seeds at seedfinder - Came up with some great choices!

 

[Amy Gardner]

18% THC - 90% Indica - Bubba Hash - Fem F1 - 8.5 weeks flower - high yield, big colas

all the Ace stuff is great of course but this one is pretty special! The 18% is misleading. The terpene profile is fantastic and it‘s really potent weed with a super up and bright ‘front’. NOt at all a ‘stoney’ type of indica. But relaxing if that’s the mood. Not narcotic. It’s beautiful.

East Coast Sour Diesel

Can easily recommend the Sour Bubba by Katsubluebird then! I think you’re checking out his stuff already. Sponsor-wise I’m pretty sure Neptune carry it.

I’ll look fforward too seeing you grow some more Devil’s Tit! That one had me pretty interested before you took hiatus

 

[Radogast]

all the Ace stuff is great of course but this one is pretty special! The 18% is misleading. The terpene profile is fantastic and it‘s really potent weed with a super up and bright ‘front’. NOt at all a ‘stoney’ type of indica. But relaxing if that’s the mood. Not narcotic. It’s beautiful.

Can easily recommend the Sour Bubba by Katsubluebird then! I think you’re checking out his stuff already. Sponsor-wise I’m pretty sure Neptune carry it.

I’ll look fforward too seeing you grow some more Devil’s Tit! That one had me pretty interested before you took hiatus

I went through available Snow High seeds and Devil's Tit might not make the cut. She grew kindof finicky, or maybe I should say, I just didn't understand her. I struggle as a grower anyway, I never felt like she 'hooked up' with the way I treated her.


Among Snow High seeds, so far I'm attracted to:
Faded Glory (mostly Sativa) and Kaliedos Dope (mostly Indica) for that late 70s California grown I grew up with,
Allusion OG and Berserker for the more modern OG dank and stank indica, and
Purple Eclipse for crossing my favorites (The White x Malawi x Acapulco Gold X C99) with Purple Pantera #4 into a fast flower Sativa dominant.

 

[politoed]

Eventually, I'm looking for 8 strains, mostly 7-9 week flowering, to run in perpetual. I might sort through 15 or more strains, growing several seeds each, to find my 8 perpetual cuts.

currently doing the same on a smaller scale for 2 5x8 rooms. too bad every strain doesnt just flower in 8 weeks to make it simple. ive been vegging 8 different strains (have 8 more on the way) and kinda beating on them a bit to see if they hermie later on. trying to find some real strong reliable cuts. i might be happy with 4, if theyre really the right 4. it sounds like youre going just a little more commercial than me but even on a small scale the variety of 8 strains at all times is just awesome. im excited to see your work.

one question i had for you was regarding the space/plant count - i read you had speced out 4 plants per 4x6 square for that first prospect of a room. does that include space on the sides to walk through? or are you literally going to go wall to wall plants? curious to see your method. i made my walkways only 2 feet wide - a bit narrow by western standards but i wanted to maximize grow space and that seemed like a good way to gain an extra foot or so.

 

[Radogast]

currently doing the same on a smaller scale for 2 5x8 rooms. too bad every strain doesnt just flower in 8 weeks to make it simple. ive been vegging 8 different strains (have 8 more on the way) and kinda beating on them a bit to see if they hermie later on. trying to find some real strong reliable cuts. i might be happy with 4, if theyre really the right 4. it sounds like youre going just a little more commercial than me but even on a small scale the variety of 8 strains at all times is just awesome. im excited to see your work.

one question i had for you was regarding the space/plant count - i read you had speced out 4 plants per 4x6 square for that first prospect of a room. does that include space on the sides to walk through? or are you literally going to go wall to wall plants? curious to see your method. i made my walkways only 2 feet wide - a bit narrow by western standards but i wanted to maximize grow space and that seemed like a good way to gain an extra foot or so.

I used to run 11? mother lines in a 6 plant flower room utilizing the worlds slowest cloning & vegging techniques

In my first plan, I was counting 4x4 squares in a 12' wide room leaving me a 4' center aisle. 4' between the netting and expecting the aisle to narrow to 3' in spots. I'd like to run a 2' wide flat cart down the center aisle.

2' is narrow for anything except walking. Hard to turn around when using a back pack or shoulder strap sprayer. Carrying anything at all was iffy, Too narrow to drag out a plant from the back.


The largest I've run before was a 10x10' veg and sitting area plus a 4x8' Flower area. I didn't have enough light for the 4x8' area so I ended up with a 1.5-2' aisle in the center. I broke a few colas turning around in that room.

When i moved, I downsized to a 4x6' area with the same lights. My results were better(better genetics and skills), but I really missed the 1.5-2' aisle of the larger flower room.

 

[Radogast]

Some activity but not much to show for it.

Looking for a new property. Ugh.

Trying to source worm castings by the pallet. (Wiggle worm quoted a good price but is out of worm castings - email'd that they aren't taking on new customers). Most of their distributors won't reveal price and availability unless I open up commercial accounts. I wasn't planning on filing as an LLC (it doesn't make any difference for taxes, except the state bugs you for quarterly tax payments.) It seems ridiculus to create an LLC just to purchase worm castings - that seems extreme. I would like to grow my own worm castings - eventually, but that takes time to set up.

I'm gathering equipment for a test grow through the veg cycle to validate my space planning, lights, and pot size choices for veg. It would be nice to have a handle on average veg times. In my previous grows I have been slow vegging to maximize occupancy and diversity in the flower area. This time around I'd like to maximize vigour and minimize space and light when vegging. 2 months in veg vs 4 months in veg would be half the space and light. The actual veg time (to 3 feet or so,) is probably some time less than 4 months, but I never kept track of time in veg.

 

[ilikemsticky]

man you got a lot going on around here @Radogast I had no idea and im completely lost Im not a builder but I would absolutely love the set up your putting together its going to be amazing a slice of heaven really I would like to hang around and watch the show and learn a few things along the way this is very cool I hope you choose to grow the ud its a good strain to work with the plants grow strong and potent and there are some special ones to good luck getting this put together ill be hanging around!

 

[Radogast]

man you got a lot going on around here @Radogast I had no idea and im completely lost Im not a builder but I would absolutely love the set up your putting together its going to be amazing a slice of heaven really I would like to hang around and watch the show and learn a few things along the way this is very cool I hope you choose to grow the ud its a good strain to work with the plants grow strong and potent and there are some special ones to good luck getting this put together ill be hanging around!

I decided to grow the UD for the Veg Light Test

For those who aren't old farts around here, Ultra Dawg, UltraDog, UD is a strain created by former 420 grower LembaToast. He grew dozens of outdoor plants in his southern california backyard, made and used copious amounts of shatter and oil for topicals. UD has some original OG Kush, Chemdawg and maybe a couple of other strains that the northern Californians were growing and passing around amongst friends.
Shortly before he left in 2018? Lembatoast was in conversational with a boutique dispensary and restaurant to provide them with connosieur seeds.


The old California strains are special to me. I was raised in San Francisco Bay area and lived there from 1959-1989. I remember when the Oaksterdam University building site was an empty space near the airport where cars raced each other. A few years before Oaksterdam and recreation legalization, I remember my father being asked if he would grow marijuana for the use of the Alameda County medical community (he declined and thuis avoided jail.) Years before that, I remember wandering into the wilds of Medecino and Humboldt county and being politely advised not to continue walking in the forest the direction I was headed out of respect for the privacy of my fellow Californians.

On to the Veg Light Test

On June 22nd, I took some 3rd run soil out of one gallon pots - roots and all, added a little water, and placed the soil in the warmth of the garage to 'cook'. (My basement apartment is too cool for the soil microbes and mycorrhizal forming fungi.)

About the same time, I ordered a 480W lm301h + red LEDs 4- bar light shipped express from China. I also did a little shopping.

Today, boxes arrived.

2025DFBC-F398-45F7-81A9-4A9F9168C219.jpeg

• Radogast
• Jun 26, 2020

tent frame

The tent frame went together in less than 5 minutes

B9AE7E6C-C215-48F9-A4AD-F562230311F0.jpeg

• Radogast
• Jun 26, 2020

tent

Wrapping the tent around the frame took about 10 more minutes.

F254ADBC-EE6A-451F-85F0-CC87392F1372 (1).jpeg

• Radogast
• Jun 26, 2020

closed tent

This is a 2x4' x6' tall tent which gives the same 2x4' floor space as I planned for vegging racks
The tent is on 2x4" lumber and plywood to isolate the plants from the cold concrete floor

378DB16F-3332-4E90-9CBD-3FA9FC0C3B16.jpeg

• Radogast
• Jun 26, 2020

tent with supplies

On the tent floor, I placed:
8x8" by 9" tall square pots that I plan to use from seedlings until pre-flowering transplant.
A space heater used in my most recent basement flower room
A 4" inline duct fan to move 100 cfm of air in and out of the tent.
The cardbard box is five more 4" inline duct fans, as they shipped a case of 6 rather than a single fan.

D20E6398-042E-4D32-BBA4-7B16198791A6.jpeg

• Radogast
• Jun 26, 2020

tent fan

On the ceiling, I placed a clip-on fan for ait circulation.

I've never had a tent and a clip-on fan before. I feel like a real home grower now.


The veg light is on it's way.
The soil is cooking.
I have nutrients from the previous grow.
I have a few 15A mechanical 24 hour timers.
I have an indoor/outdoor temp and humidity meter.
I have a whole house dehumidifier to manage humidity from outside the tent.

The back yard basement window was been blacked out for a year.
I'm skipping the carbon filter for now.
I'll soak plants in buckets of tap water sitting for at least 24 hours
I'll track down my sprayer and Neem Oil (systemic bug spray)

 

[ilikemsticky]

they shipped a case of 6 rather than a single fan.

did they charge you for 1 or all 6 looks good in there I have 3 clip on fans in my 3x3 but I like it breezy in there it makes it un comfortable for the fungas gnats they don't like it so that pleases me.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Exciting! An open-to-the-public rehearsal!

I am interpreting what you’ve said there about the soil to mean that you are about to re-use 3rd run kit soil unamended, but cooked to warm it up and bring it to life, is that correct? If so I’ll be watching with interest as I have used second run soil but no more amendment and I’ve been contemplating re-“cooking” some ot if to finish off some product and most likely grow some much more than decent bud I was even thinking I might add some 6/5/3 calcium to it. So, curious if the una ended re-use is what you’re doing.

 

[Radogast]

did they charge you for 1 or all 6 looks good in there I have 3 clip on fans in my 3x3 but I like it breezy in there it makes it un comfortable for the fungas gnats they don't like it so that pleases me.

They charged me for 1 duct fan. I emailed them and asked if they wanted to arrange return. The response today was:

Thank you for letting us know. You don't have to return. Just keep them as free gifts from VIVOSUN.
Have a good day!