Radogast: Grow Big Or Go Home

[Radogast]

Sorry I've been so quiet. I was working on my shopping lists.

In phase 2, the lumber alone is a daunting list:

(141) 8 ft 2x4" studs
(45) 10 ft 2x4" studs
(73) 8 ft 2x2" furring

(19) 23/32 4x8' T&G OSB
(23) 1/2" 4x8' OSB
(50) 1/4" 4x8' OSB

(18) post frame hangers for 2x4
(19) galvanized stud plate ties
(2) 10-pack Overlay Cabinet Hinges
(18) RTU ties for 2" u-shape

Once I buy those 259 studs and furring strips, 92 4x8' sheets of OSB, 55 special brackets, and 20 hinges, I have to cut and/or assemble them in a safe and secure manner. Then, fill the cracks with great stuff and staple 6x200' of black poly and 4x500' of reflectix double reflect onto that wood.

 

[Magnus8]

Sorry I've been so quiet. I was working on my shopping lists.

In phase 2, the lumber alone is a daunting list:

(141) 8 ft 2x4" studs
(45) 10 ft 2x4" studs
(73) 8 ft 2x2" furring

(19) 23/32 4x8' T&G OSB
(23) 1/2" 4x8' OSB
(50) 1/4" 4x8' OSB

(18) post frame hangers for 2x4
(19) galvanized stud plate ties
(2) 10-pack Overlay Cabinet Hinges
(18) RTU ties for 2" u-shape

Once I buy those 259 studs and furring strips, 92 4x8' sheets of OSB, 55 special brackets, and 20 hinges, I have to cut and/or assemble them in a safe and secure manner. Then, fill the cracks with great stuff and staple 6x200' of black poly and 4x500' of reflectix double reflect onto that wood.

I cant WAIT to see pics, Radogast. I'm so excited for you, like I'm living vicariously through this project. Wouldn't we all like to be able to build something like this.

All my best,
~Magnus

 

[Van Stank]

Sorry I've been so quiet. I was working on my shopping lists.

In phase 2, the lumber alone is a daunting list:

(141) 8 ft 2x4" studs
(45) 10 ft 2x4" studs
(73) 8 ft 2x2" furring

(19) 23/32 4x8' T&G OSB
(23) 1/2" 4x8' OSB
(50) 1/4" 4x8' OSB

(18) post frame hangers for 2x4
(19) galvanized stud plate ties
(2) 10-pack Overlay Cabinet Hinges
(18) RTU ties for 2" u-shape

Once I buy those 259 studs and furring strips, 92 4x8' sheets of OSB, 55 special brackets, and 20 hinges, I have to cut and/or assemble them in a safe and secure manner. Then, fill the cracks with great stuff and staple 6x200' of black poly and 4x500' of reflectix double reflect onto that wood.

That'll keep you occupied for a few minutes!!! Dang!!

 

[Amy Gardner]

 

[Radogast]

There are some interesting things that change when scaling up a grow.

I made shopping list decisions about drip irrigation sizes, irrigation zones, nutrient injectors, Rainbird switches and controllers to route water past the different nutrient injectors, drew it all out on paper as 1" PVC, verifying flow rates, and got the drawing all the way back to the carbon filter for the water and realized I may not have enough water flow to drive the drippers without doubling the zones. I went back and redrew it for more zones and discovered with the modular design it's less than 10% increase in my fertigation system cost. Panic avoided.

Sophie Zhang and I had a couple of midnight text sessions discussing lights - two nights because the first night I went to sleep at 3:36 and she texted back at 3:44 AM. She's agreed to ship about 30% more wattage than expected in my budget. It also bumped the the per room lighting load up to 54 amps. It's a nice problem to have

Given the 'soft start' load of LEDs, and the 20% engineering margins they put into a lot electricals, I can probably still get away with 60 amp contactors (relays) to put the room lights on a single on/off switch.

Now I need to some sort of wild ass story to explain to the electrical contractor why I need 60 amp contactors installed inline to 60 amp breaker boxes. Or install them myself. I'll probably need to install them myself because lighting is pretty much the only reason to put a handful of circuits on a single switch.

Or I could just buy a lot of timers.

 

[Graytail]

Or I could just buy a lot of timers.

I vaguely remember running across high amperage power controllers/centers.

But you need two 30 amp circuits anyway ...

How about 230 voltage? You'd only need 30 amps then - basically a clothes dryer or a range/oven, right?

 

[Magnus8]

There are some interesting things that change when scaling up a grow.

I made shopping list decisions about drip irrigation sizes, irrigation zones, nutrient injectors, Rainbird switches and controllers to route water past the different nutrient injectors, drew it all out on paper as 1" PVC, verifying flow rates, and got the drawing all the way back to the carbon filter for the water and realized I may not have enough water flow to drive the drippers without doubling the zones. I went back and redrew it for more zones and discovered with the modular design it's less than 10% increase in my fertigation system cost. Panic avoided.

Sophie Zhang and I had a couple of midnight text sessions discussing lights - two nights because the first night I went to sleep at 3:36 and she texted back at 3:44 AM. She's agreed to ship about 30% more wattage than expected in my budget. It also bumped the the per room lighting load up to 54 amps. It's a nice problem to have

Given the 'soft start' load of LEDs, and the 20% engineering margins they put into a lot electricals, I can probably still get away with 60 amp contactors (relays) to put the room lights on a single on/off switch.

Now I need to some sort of wild ass story to explain to the electrical contractor why I need 60 amp contactors installed inline to 60 amp breaker boxes. Or install them myself. I'll probably need to install them myself because lighting is pretty much the only reason to put a handful of circuits on a single switch.

Or I could just buy a lot of timers.

Hey Radogast,

Your new build is SO DAMNED INSPIRING you have no idea. I'm sure there are other members just salivating at the thought of watching your new development "grow."

Really loving the ride!

All my best,
~Magnus

 

[Amy Gardner]

It's a nice problem to have

230 voltage?

 

[Radogast]

I vaguely remember running across high amperage power controllers/centers.

But you need two 30 amp circuits anyway ...

How about 230 voltage? You'd only need 30 amps then - basically a clothes dryer or a range/oven, right?

The 60 amps is at 240v. If it dips to 220V and the wattage stays the same, then the amperage jumps to 65.

There are power control bars for HID lamps that I believe switch x input plugs to x output plugs. I should look a those. I initially passed because my power cords are 4 feet apart so it would take wierd cord spaghetti to use such a device.

60 amp contactor (relay) vs 100 amp contactor (relay) isn't the issue. The issue is the circuit boxs will be in a public place and I didn't want anyone with knowledge staring at the boxes and saying 'What the hell equipment are they running back there.?'

I suppose I could run conduit up out of the main breaker box to contactors on the 'secure' side of the wall and connect them to sub-breaker boxes out of sight. That wouldn't look nearly as wierd until someone saw the 100w/240v circuit breakers inside. (Gosh I don't know if breakers that size fit in a residential panel, I've only seen 277V versions as1x1ft panels on industrial cabinets. More research is required. )

I have an electrician friend, but he's not the right kind of friend to consult on this kind of thing. He always wants to deeply understand the parameters before offering a solution.

 

[Radogast]

Hey Radogast,

Your new build is SO DAMNED INSPIRING you have no idea. I'm sure there are other members just salivating at the thought of watching your new development "grow."

Really loving the ride!

All my best,
~Magnus

Thanks.
It's gonna take awhile 40-50 days for lights to arrive from china. (after payment)

That fits well with 45-60 days for HVAC and electricians to do their magic, sealing cracks and building walls.

Another obstacle. With this being spring gardening season, I can't source my favorite worm castings .

 

[Magnus8]

Another obstacle.

I have been watching The Walking Dead on Netflix these past couple of nights.

First of all I am amazed at just how great this series is. Even if you cant handle gore, the show is quite brilliant.

Second of all, my understanding of the word "obstacle" has shifted from the simple problems we like to call obstacles to something like being caught in a burning barn when you can hear the baby crying but cannot find her because of smoke and one of your "family" has stepped on a pitchfork and it stuck right through his foot but it also knocked him out and and your son and his girlfriend went out hours ago on a supply run and should have been back within an hour and to top it all off there is a hoard of squealing and hungry undead surrounding the burning barn.

Now those are obstacles.



Cheers, man. I so hope this all works out for you, even if the worms arent cooperating!

All my best,
Magnus.

 

[Radogast]

I have been watching The Walking Dead on Netflix these past couple of nights.

... being caught in a burning barn when you can hear the baby crying but cannot find her because of smoke and one of your "family" has stepped on a pitchfork and it stuck right through his foot but it also knocked him out and and your son and his girlfriend went out hours ago on a supply run and should have been back within an hour and to top it all off there is a hoard of squealing and hungry undead surrounding the burning barn.

Now those are obstacles.



All my best
Magnus.

Those aren't obstacles, those are dire situations.

 

[Tead]

In phase 2, the lumber alone is a daunting list:

Most folks with the slightest bit of common sense would run. Me... jealousy. If'n Tead had some time, he'd jump on that project just for the chuckles.

Or install them myself

Do. It's so damn easy.
I'm installing a 2nd circuit breaker panel.

I have an electrician friend, but he's not the right kind of friend to consult on this kind of thing.

Ask him how easy it is... he'll tell ya. Some conduit, hangers, wire, and a few screws.... easy.

 

[Radogast]

[QUOTE="Tead, post: 4997177, member: 62373"

Do. It's so damn easy.
I'm installing a 2nd circuit breaker panel.

Ask him how easy it is... he'll tell ya. Some conduit, hangers, wire, and a few screws.... easy.
[/QUOTE]

Whatdya know, SquareD and friends make 100AMP circuit breakers for situations like these.
Easy Peasy!

 

[Tead]

Whatdya know, SquareD and friends make 100AMP circuit breakers for situations like these.

I know nothing of your power situation really, but keep in mind that residential (and commercial for that matter... but they get more choices!) power drops from the utility have a limit. When you start looking at circuits as large as this, one must consider the limit of the available lines.
For example, I'm using 2x 60A lines from the panel. The space is shared and has humans below consuming a good bit of the available flow. In this case, I've reviewed the load downstairs and I'm good with the numbers.
You get the idea. If it's a fairly modern residential power drop, I think it's rated for 250A.

 

[Radogast]

I know nothing of your power situation really, but keep in mind that residential (and commercial for that matter... but they get more choices!) power drops from the utility have a limit. When you start looking at circuits as large as this, one must consider the limit of the available lines.
For example, I'm using 2x 60A lines from the panel. The space is shared and has humans below consuming a good bit of the available flow. In this case, I've reviewed the load downstairs and I'm good with the numbers.
You get the idea. If it's a fairly modern residential power drop, I think it's rated for 250A.

This is older building, used as a garage and such. The plan is to hire an elecrician to assure we can assure the amperage with an add or upgrade to the current main panel. Depending on the timing of the HVAC/heat pump solution they probably will install the shutoffs and wire the HVAC equipment. I don't want them getting involved with the grow lighting wiring.

I generally like hiring a contractor for some of the work, with the proper permits and inspections, and completing other work less formally.

I'm using 2x 60A lines from the panel.

How are you switching those 60A amp lines on and off?

 

[Tead]

So... if you want an electrician to run the lines, just tell them that you're going to install an electric water heater wherever you want the power run to terminate. He'll give you a 60A run and a cutoff box with removable fuses. Be sure to tell him it's a big water heater and you want a 60A run. This will get you thru any electrical inspection without tipping off the folks involved.

How are you switching those 60A amp lines on and off?

3 cutoffs in the lighting circuit. 60A breaker in the panel, cutoff box on the wall, and the relays in the lighting controller.
AC circuit is the same except no lighting controller.

The Titan lighting controller is awesome btw. Love it. I'd highly recommend a lighting controller of some sort.

 

[Tead]

OH!
While you're at it, get one of those whole house surge suppressors that pop into the breaker panel. Just pop it in and connect the ground wire to an open slot on the grounding bar in the panel.
I had to fry 3/4 of my drivers to learn that lesson. All our power lines are overhead... you can't bury power lines in the swamp... so we get lots of lightning strikes and other crazy issues.

 

[Radogast]

OH!
While you're at it, get one of those whole house surge suppressors that pop into the breaker panel. Just pop it in and connect the ground wire to an open slot on the grounding bar in the panel.
I had to fry 3/4 of my drivers to learn that lesson. All our power lines are overhead... you can't bury power lines in the swamp... so we get lots of lightning strikes and other crazy issues.

Whole house surge suppressor - simple concept too! ground surges within the main breaker panel.

I'll have the electrician install a Main breaker, 3 sub panels spread through the space, and heat pump connections, then i will modify from there .

thanks a hundred!

 

[bobrown14]

Surge suppressor should quiet the line as well. Those power supplies for the LEDs will put some noise out on the line.

I'd be looking at say a Titan triggered switch sized a little bit bigger than what you are running. Say a Titan Spartan or Helios series.

Exciting times... Sparky on a mission!