Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Thread starter #1

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
I'll start off with my credentials, since they are pertinent to this discussion and form the basis of my knowledge.

First of all, I am a writer by tradition, and I tend to write sometimes very long-winded articles and posts. Let me apologize up front for that. I cannot help it. It is just the way I am. But those credentials are less pertinent to our discussion here than the credentials I will outline below.

I am a soap and lotion crafter by trade. I have studied and practiced and learned my craft over many years, using mostly books of previously handed down knowledge handed down to me. I have also learned through doing. By making what seems like tons of handcrafted soaps and lotions that I have sold at Farmers Markets, Specialty Markets, Trade Shows and through small businesses on commission. My products were very popular and we (my wife and I) had many repeat customers. But, like so many small businesses, we were unprepared to grow and at a certain time it grew beyond our capacities to sustain the business. Sadly, I closed my business at the end of last summer's Farmers Market season. I still regret it, but it was the best decision for the health of both my wife and I.

Now for the fun part!

We're here to make cannabis infused lotions and butters and creams -- oh my! We are all here to learn, I hope, for that is what this study hall will mostly be about. Learning. From each other as we progress in our handcrafted skillset and not only learn from each other, but teach each other along the way. I envision this study hall to be just that -- a virtual space of study. There will be laughter, I hope. There will be joy, I hope. There will be tears, but I hope not many!

So let's start off with a few definitiions, to lay the ground work so to speak. This will help us to craft our language so that we are all speaking the same one and so that we may communicate better and with more clarity.

So on with it.

What is the difference between Creams and Lotions, and why do I insist on calling Creams as Butters?

The first thing to note here is that most of you who have been making creams are making what we call in the professional world "body butters." There seems to be no difference between what I see here as creams and what I know to be body butters. As such, I will probably be found to call them body butters from time to time, though I will try to learn to use the language of the site and call them creams.

A body butter -- or cream -- is composed of oils and often beeswax to thicken the mix. So when someone tells me that they make a cream of coconut oil and grape seed oil and possibly avocado oil, combined with beeswax as a thickener, then they are telling me they are making a body butter.

A lotion is composed of oils and sometimes beeswax sometimes not that uses an emulsifying agent to combine them, much like mayonaisse is an emulsification between oil and water using egg yolks to emulsify them together. When someone tells me they are making a cream with coconut oil and grape seed oil and avocado oil, combined with water and BTMS-25 (an all-natural emulsifier derived from plants) as a thickener, then they are telling me they are making a lotion.

The primary difference between the two kinds of product are that one is an oil product and one is an oil and water product, where the water and oils are combined with some kind of emulsifying agent (because as we all know, water and oils don't normally mix together).

Now that's a lot to take in in one sitting. I urge you to read and re-read the above explanations until you truly understand them. If you get it quickly then great. Read on. If it takes some time to grasp these concepts, that's okay, too. But please try. Because in this study hall we'll be talking extensively about the two different kinds of products and attempting to learn how to develop our own creams or lotions that suit us -- or our patients -- best. For each has its good and bad qualities, and each is suitable to different purposes.

Whereas one situation might call for a cannabis infused body butter to be developed, another situation might call for a cannabis infused lotion. Only you can decide which application will suit you best at any given time.

Good night and good reading!

I bid you adieu!
:welcome:
 

SweetSue

Member of the Month - March 2015 & September 2016
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Here for the fun! :yahoo:
 

Cannafan

Cannabis Connoisseur Member of the Month - Januar
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

I'll sub up. My dining room and bar are currently packed with ingredients and test trials of body butters and other such cannabis infused body care. LOL Just recently made some body scrub bars that are fabulous!
This should be really helpful to me as I venture into this for sure!

Thank you for starting this thread Magnus8. :)
I have a history of making soaps at home as well, but didn't dive into much on the lotions.

This is one of the areas of infusing cannabis that is exploding on the internet. So many wonderful looking products out there to help heal our outer bodies while we are healing the inside with our oil and ingestion methods.

:circle-of-love:
 

DrZiggy

Member of the Month - April 2016
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Subbed, this is exactly what I've been looking for ☺
Welcome Jingo, To 420Magazine!! :circle-of-love:
 
Thread starter #11

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Well... Welcome all, to the Romper Room.

And I see Supergroomer.
And I see SweetSue.
And I see AngryBird.
And I see DrZiggy.
And I see CannaFan.
And I see Canyon.
And I ALMOST DIDN'T SEE Jingo! Oopsie. Scrolling too fast on my tablet.

Welcome all. And thanks for coming along for the ride. And for those of you who are here for the support -- and you know who you are -- thanks to you, too.

I thought I'd take a moment and write about this voracious love affair we have with Coconut Oil (CO), and why it isn't a particularly good carrier oil for body butters, creams and lotions. Some of you will have read a similar posting in Sue's Oil Study Hall. In fact, I may just copy and paste that posting here.


Cannabis infused Coconut Oil (CO) is wonderful for so many things. There is no need to delineate them on this thread. But one thing it is not good for is as a topical, and the reason for that lies in the nature of CO itself.

CO is a great carrier oil. It is healthy when ingested, does some great things I hear when used in medicine. But as a topical... it sucks.

The skin is a semi-permeable membrane. It allows passage into the body of some materials. It allows passage out of the body of some materials. It does not allow passage either way of all materials. This, again, is something we all know.

The skin allows passage of H2O quite easily. That's why your fingers get all wrinkly when you sit in the bathtub.

The skin likewise allows easy passage of oils -- SOME oils, but not others. CO is one of those oils which is not easily passed through the skin membrane, if at all. That's why, when we use CCO as a straight topical, it leaves the skin so greasy that you could slap a hockey puck across your aching back 10 yards (if your back were that long, that is).

The skin, however, allows passage of H2O much more readily than almost all oils.

(Yes, I'm going someplace with this founding base of ideas and truths.)

All oils can be infused with herbs, not just CO. We infuse CO with the herb cannabis because it has so many other health-affirming properties inherent in it, and I think it has something to do with bioavailability, but I've no medical or science background so I don't understand this concept of bioavailability.

It stands, therefore, that if CO can be infused with cannabis, it makes sense that any other oil can be infused with it, some having some properties, some having others.

We primarily infuse CO with cannabis because of the properties it has when injested, used as a suppository, etc. We don't infuse it for the properties it has as a topical.

Rather, we need another carrier oil to infuse with the herb cannabis.

My proposition, for all those out there who care to make topicals for themselves or their loved ones (or even those they hate but who pay them well) is that we figure out those properties important for us in a carrier oil that can be infused with Cannabis.

That is the task before us.

1st Property: Transmission


Transmission from the surface of the skin into the core of its membranes and deeper is paramount. For it is this transmission quality that will determine how effective the carrier oil will be at carrying the cannabinoids under the skin, into the muscles, at the core of the nerves and throughout the body via the bloodstream.

2nd Property: Skin-"Loving-ness"


The ability of the carrier oil to "love" your skin means that the oil is capable of rejuvenating dry skin, refreshing elasticity, calming down redness and itch and irritated patches. In short, the ability of the oil to love your skin (your skin will surely love these oils back!).

3rd Property: Availability


All the greatest oils in the world are no good to us if they are not available. Some are more easily available than others. Walnut Oil is available in many supermarkets while Sweet Almond Oil is not. Shea Butter is available in some pharmacies while Emu Oil in only select few. If and oil is transmissible, skin-loving AND readily available, then it is a good bet as an oil we could consider to be our carrier oil (or in some other way be present in our concoction).

4th Property: I think that's enough for now, don't you?


So we've ascertained that CO is not a good carrier oil for our precious cannabis herb. What would be a good oil, then? I'll give you a few. Don't worry if you've never heard of some of them. They are all readily available from several different websites that I will list in a later posting as long as you have either a credit card, debit card, paypal, or some such other form of acceptable payment.


I am proposing that you use your favourite method of infusion to develop an infusion of the cannabis into your chosen oil from the list below. If you don't know how to infuse oils, you can certainly pm me. I'd be glad to help.

1st Carrier Oil: Grape Seed Oil
Possibly the most easily available carrier oil to find, as it sits on nearly all grocery store shelves. It is a medium weight oil, but it sinks into the skin medium to longer amounts of time. The message to be heard here is that it DOES sink in. So infuse it with cannabis, add some beeswax and you've got a simple butter that will carry your cannabis down through the pores and into the muscles, tendons, fibres and bloodstream itself. It too, like CO, may be ingested.

2nd Carrier Oil: Sweet Almond Oil (not to be confused with Bitter Almond Oil)
A light oil, soaks into the skin in a medium amount of time, but soaks in completely, too. WARNING: You MUST NOT INGEST this oil.

3rd Carrier Oil: Shea Butter
A very heavy oil, comes as a paste or hardlike block that must be melted down. A little goes a very, very long way and since most people use much too much, the skin surface is left greasy and oily. But it does soak in, it's just that most people use too much of it to soak in completely and the skin gets saturated and cannot take any more. Not the best choice as a primary infusion, but wonderful to add to your mix in small amounts to add incredible -- and I mean incredible -- skin loving features to your concoction (you don't have to have only your carrier oil, your beeswax and your GMSO in your concoction. you can also choose to make a butter for the skin that is nourishing and skin loving in its own right.)

4th Carrier Oil: Walnut Oil
A very heavy oil, available on many grocery store shelves. It sinks in well, but leaves a greasy film behind. This is fine if used as a supporting oil in very small amounts. If used in small enough doses, that greasy film will just be felt as skin softness and skin smoothness.

5th Carrier Oil: Pumpkin Seed Oil

This one is only available primarily from soapcrafting and lotioncrafting websites and suppliers. That's no problem. I'll give links to those places in a later post. But it is a freakin' BRILLIANT carrier oil for what we are trying to do here. We are trying to find a carrier oil that transmisses the skin cleanly, effectively and rapidly. That is exactly what PSO does! After applying this oil to the skin, within brief moments, no oiliness remains. None. Nada. Zip. It's just miraculously gone! Actually, it's not a miracle at all. The oil has simply sunk into the skin. And if this Carrier Oil can sink into the skin so damned fast, and if this Carrier Oil is infused with Cannabis, then think just how fast those cannabinoids are sinking in with it, eh? Look out to the horizon (side angle shot), a vista of a rising sun (camera dollys into closeup) and imagine the possibilities...



So there you have it. Some information to start our thinking off, and possibly a conversation or two, as well. Rethink this blind adherence to using CO as your carrier oil for all your infusions. There are a plethora of oils available to us for our use and each has its good points and bad points. What we need to do is clarify our own desires, our own goals, our own medicinal priorities, our own time commitments and our own budgets to determine how far we want to delve into the world of making butters and lotions for our own healing or the healing of others.

I've given you some background information. Some of it will come into play in a later posting. Some of it has been helpful to us here, in this discussion. I hope you have learned from what I've tried to teach today. If not, it is because the message was worded wrong, and I invite you to make me clarify my words by healthy repartee with me.

But please, if you take one thing away from this posting, please take away that you are not married to Coconut Oil as being the only carrier oil available to your needs. What works for one (or many) applications does not necessarily work for all. Butters and lotions require their own set of rules.

Be well, my friends.
 
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Cannafan

Cannabis Connoisseur Member of the Month - Januar
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Damn! I've got everything except Pumpkin seed oil. LOL
Excellent post Magnus8! +reps to you!
 

Cannafan

Cannabis Connoisseur Member of the Month - Januar
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

So, Magnus8....do you find any noticeable differences in the types or brands of Shea butters? Do you prefer african shea...raw unrefined...ultra refined.... over others, or what is your personal opinion on this?

Thanks!

:circle-of-love:
 
Thread starter #14

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

So. I'd love to hear about all your own exploits in making creams, body butters and lotions up until now.

What carrier oils have you been using? Have you incorporated beeswax? If so, at what percentages? Have you infused any other herbs besides cannabis into your product? If so, which ones and why? Which essential oils have you been incorporating and why?

Tell us all all about it. Inquiring minds want to know...
 
Thread starter #15

Magnus8

Well-Known Member
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

So, Magnus8....do you find any noticeable differences in the types or brands of Shea butters? Do you prefer african shea...raw unrefined...ultra refined.... over others, or what is your personal opinion on this?

Thanks!

:circle-of-love:
I prefer African Raw - Unrefined. African because that is where the palm tree nut grows. Raw and unrefined because the less processed an oil or other product is, the more of its natural goodness that is retained. Of course, this doesn't hold true in the case of Coconut oil vs. Fractionated Coconut oil, since thhe fractionated version is clearly more "refined" than the raw version, but we couldn't produce fractionated coconut oil without that man made process interferring into the oil. The fractionating process clearly produces another kind of oil than raw coconut oil, one with its own inherent set of properties and characteristics.

The raw form of shea butter has its own characteristic scent that soem may not prefer. It is very earthy and nutty and almost smokey. I don't mind it. I quite like it actually. I've got a bag of it sitting in a box beside my desk and can smell it right now, infact. Quite a beautiful, potent scent, if you will.
 

Cannafan

Cannabis Connoisseur Member of the Month - Januar
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

So. I'd love to hear about all your own exploits in making creams, body butters and lotions up until now.

What carrier oils have you been using? Have you incorporated beeswax? If so, at what percentages? Have you infused any other herbs besides cannabis into your product? If so, which ones and why? Which essential oils have you been incorporating and why?

Tell us all all about it. Inquiring minds want to know...
The body scrub bars I made have ground hemp seeds in them as an exfoliate. I do incorporate beeswax, but found that my percentage in the body scrub bars may have been less than I should have. Next batch I will use more. I cannot recall at the moment how much I used on the first batch, but the bars were a bit too soft and didn't last very long. I used lavender essential oil, because of it's pain relieving, antibacterial, and calming the nerves properties. Among many other reasons of course, and it smells heavenly.

What is your suggestion for how much beeswax to add?
 

Cannafan

Cannabis Connoisseur Member of the Month - Januar
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

I prefer African Raw - Unrefined. African because that is where the palm tree nut grows. Raw and unrefined because the less processed an oil or other product is, the more of its natural goodness that is retained. Of course, this doesn't hold true in the case of Coconut oil vs. Fractionated Coconut oil, since thhe fractionated version is clearly more "refined" than the raw version, but we couldn't produce fractionated coconut oil without that man made process interferring into the oil. The fractionating process clearly produces another kind of oil than raw coconut oil, one with its own inherent set of properties and characteristics.

The raw form of shea butter has its own characteristic scent that soem may not prefer. It is very earthy and nutty and almost smokey. I don't mind it. I quite like it actually. I've got a bag of it sitting in a box beside my desk and can smell it right now, infact. Quite a beautiful, potent scent, if you will.
So glad we are in agreement on that. I have always used African Raw, and I have so much of it right now. :laugh: I personally like the nutty earthy smell myself, but a lot of people don't. This is what I smell when I walk through my dining room, I have a batch of it melting in a crock pot right now.

:thumb:
 

Canyon

Well-Known Member
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

.....I am proposing that you use your favourite method of infusion to develop an infusion of the cannabis into your chosen oil from the list below. If you don't know how to infuse oils, you can certainly pm me. I'd be glad to help.
Mag,
Nice start.

Oil making and infusing it is practiced by everyone you have drawn to page one of your journal. A lot of the methods come from trial and error, videos, etc. The practices are evolving. However, most started with 'Let's try this.' The process is not that standardized.

It would probably be a good idea to post your methods for infusion as a starting point. It would provide a base understanding of the process to those new to it and new insight for the rest of us.

Best
 

HashGirl

Well-Known Member
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Wow! You're on the second page already! Sorry to get here late but I'm here now.

:48:
 

Dave Groomer

Product Reviewer
re: Magnus8's Canna Cream - Body Butter - & Canna Lotion Study Hall

Ok so I am back from the store. There are now 2 roasting bags in the oven decarbing. One has a mixture of trim from my Dream Machine, Critical Plus and mt c-99. It also has all the stems from the DM that was recently chopped. It also has a bit of assorted bud. This will be infused into 2c of Coconut oil. That will be put aside for the brownies. In the other bag is 12g assorted bud. It will be infused into 12 oz of grape seed oil.

The bags will decarbed at 230 degrees for 110 minutes. So far I have found this the best for bringing out the potency. The plan is to mix 2oz beeswax with the 12oz infused grape seed oil. The person I am making this for seems to have sensitive skin. I will not add anything else to 8oz. The other 4oz are for me to play with. I will try it first just as is and see how it works. I will also take a small amount and mix with DMSO and see if the absorption is any better.

Well that is the plan. Let me know if I should be anything else. :peace: