Tangwena's Malawi-Style Cob Cure: Fermented Cannabis

[Chungo]

I took the poster at his word I have no reason to doubt it.
He posted that on IC years ago as the laboratory had no idea what cob was they just called it flower.

Also when you have by your own admission no experience of cobbing your comments are just trolling and based on ignorance.
Judging by all your trophies you can grow flowers best keep your opinions to what you have experience in.

Thanks Tangwena for the insight. The lab results are interesting in that if I read it correctly the THC increased with cobing. And if I read it right there was a insignificant amount of CBD in it to start with but did increase with cobing though still insignificant. Maybe my history is biased but you would have to repeat these tests a significant number of times to come to any factual conclusion though this small sample is very interesting and worth further review. Also the samples would have to be cured in exactly the same manor and with cobing and that may take a bit of work. Furthermore if the question is about CBD one should look at a CBD rich variety to start with to come to any insight.

 

[Azimuth]

If you check closer you will see 0.01 CBD in the bud and 0.03 CBD in the cob cured thats an increase of 300%

I guess I don't understand the two charts and the point that is attempting to be made with them. Both charts show essentially similar readings overall and the very small increase in CBD levels seems immaterial at best, at least to me. I get that it's three times the first reading but neither is enough to make any real impact, positive or negative.

Also, I see THC-A actually went up by a material amount? That also doesn't make sense to me since my understanding is that THC-A levels peak while still on an actively growing plant and begin to degrade into THC and then on to CBN.

I've not done cobs but they are supposed to have some magic to them, probably because of the fermenting process, but I wonder if their effects are from something other than what we would normally test for in more typical use.

Also, the CBD levels show essentially zero in both charts. CBD and CBD-A are two different molecules and interact with some of the cannabinoid receptors differently. For example CBD can offset the high from THC by disrupting its ability to fully lock into to the CB1 receptor, but CBD-A does not share that property.

 

[InTheShed]

Also when you have by your own admission no experience of cobbing your comments are just trolling and based on ignorance.
Judging by all your trophies you can grow flowers best keep your opinions to what you have experience in.

It appears that I'm not the only one questioning those results. Perhaps you misread my post.

 

[Neiko]

Hey cob crew, it's been a while since I've posted here but I have been catching up. The talk about CBD and what happens is a good question. Here is the results from a test I did a few years ago. I tested the harvested flower right after it was dry and the cob 3 months later. The results are interesting. The tested flower had detectable CBD but the cob didn't have any. I'm convinced there is something going on in the cob that can't be tested yet. By the test results you would think the cobs aren't "as good" as the flower due to the lower test results but this is not the case.

I found the post I was looking for.


Neiko’s test results back from the Carnival cob, and the labs create more mystery. Neiko figures there’s something else going on that they can’t measure with current testing parameters.

Neiko’s Carnival cob

• SweetSue
• Jul 13, 2018

Neiko’s Carnival cob

• SweetSue
• Jul 13, 2018

For reference I pulled up the flower labs.
Neiko’s Carnival labs, cannabinoids and terpenes as grown in soil supported by Doc Bud’s High Brix Blend kit.

Carnival lab results

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Carnival lab results

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Carnival lab results

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Compliments of Neiko

Carnival terpenes

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Compliments of Neiko

Carnival terpenes

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Compliments of Neiko

Carnival terpenes

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Compliments of Neiko

Carnival lab results

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

Carnival lab results

• SweetSue
• Apr 16, 2018

 

[Azimuth]

The results are interesting. The tested flower had detectable CBD but the cob didn't have any. I'm convinced there is something going on in the cob that can't be tested yet. By the test results you would think the cobs aren't "as good" as the flower due to the lower test results but this is not the case.

That's kind of what I am thinking. The test results suggest not much is really happening as the acidic cannabinnoids stay relatively unchanged, but users report significant effects.

What that change might be seems a mystery.

 

[CBDMed]

If you check closer you will see 0.01 CBD in the bud and 0.03 CBD in the cob cured thats an increase of 300%

Thank you, Tangwena. That is very encouraging!
It just seems strange because JLL normally has 6-9% CBD

I dont think these sort of tests are much use there are so many other compounds made when cobbing that they dont recognize or have a name for its a joke.

I agree, but when I first started with cannabis, I would get massive paranoia on all-THC Sativa. All-THC Indica worked much better for me, and when I found CBD, it really adds a lot of stability to the mood. (It is still problematic, but much better with CBD than without.)
In this grow, I am specifically growing 2:1, 1:1, CBDV (to check it), and all-CBD, so if it does damage CBD, it would really be a thing to know.
My landlady wants to sell, and she has no active buyers right now, but I could hypothetically lose the place with a month or two's notice. So I thought I would grow out two batches of autos indoors under LED, and find the best way to store them. Cobbing seems particularly attractive, and I would also like to eat my cob, but it will be a disaster if I lose the CBD crops. So I want to stay safe.
I have not decided what to grow next. For the moment I just want to store this weed properly, ideally in a fermented manner (as every experience I have ever had with fermented foods has been way super positive, even horizon-expanding, so I am looking forward to great things from this corn!!

Just try a small amount and age it for 6 months before trying it, you may be surprised these scientists are playing catch up as far as cannabis is concerned.

Yes, that seems like a very good idea, thank you!

Maybe I can cob 10% of each strain, and then compare the vape with the cob in six months, or something like that?
That is a great idea!
And then I should have stuff to vape until the cob is ready. That should be good!

You may find some compound not yet tested for that works better than CBD.

True.

 

[CBDMed]

They both said "flower" on the reports and were done the same day. Did you mention it was a before and after test in that post?

If one test is on the flower and one is on the cob then there was no loss of CBD at all, it was just an insignificant amount to begin with. I don't understand @el gringuito's concern about loss of CBD through cobbing then based on those results.

It seems a good question. Thank you for asking it.
My concern is that the strain name given for the sample was Juanita La Lagrimosa. JLL is a known high-CBD strain (6-9% CBD). So, one thought is that if nominally 6-9% went in, and close to 0% came out, then something must have happened to the CBD. (Where did it go?? Did something bad perhaps happen to it during the fermentation??)

Probably nothing happened during the fermentation, right? But *IF something were hypothetically to happen to the CBD during fermentation, it would be a medical issue, so while I am VERY eager to try it, I also kind of need to make sure before I commit my crop.
I hope I am explaining well. It seems like a medical safety issue from my point of view, so it makes me feel a little OCD, haha (but for real, lol).

My CBD plant tests around 15%.

Sounds good!
May I please ask, what strain is it, and do you like it?
Also, have you perhaps cobbed it, and done any before and after tests?
(Or no tests? Or not yet?)

 

[CBDMed]

Thanks Tangwena for the insight.

Yes

The lab results are interesting in that if I read it correctly the THC increased with cobing. And if I read it right there was a insignificant amount of CBD in it to start with but did increase with cobing though still insignificant. Maybe my history is biased but you would have to repeat these tests a significant number of times to come to any factual conclusion though this small sample is very interesting and worth further review.

Well said.

Also the samples would have to be cured in exactly the same manor and with cobing and that may take a bit of work. Furthermore if the question is about CBD one should look at a CBD rich variety to start with to come to any insight.

That makes sense.
I am not sure if there is a CBD flower sample facility that would test outside bud here, but probably.
How much bud do you normally have to send in, for a sample?

 

[CBDMed]

I guess I don't understand the two charts and the point that is attempting to be made with them. Both charts show essentially similar readings overall and the very small increase in CBD levels seems immaterial at best, at least to me. I get that it's three times the first reading but neither is enough to make any real impact, positive or negative.

Concur (agree).

Also, I see THC-A actually went up by a material amount? That also doesn't make sense to me since my understanding is that THC-A levels peak while still on an actively growing plant and begin to degrade into THC and then on to CBN.

My question remains, if that was Juanita LaLagrimosa going in, why ISN'T there somewhere around 6-9% in the final result?
In my very limited experience with lab chemistry, you have to be careful to specify what constitutes a SIGNIFICANT change, or what can be easily attributable to random causes (such as chemicals, user error, machine insensitivity, etc.).
I would be willing to look at a significant increase in the first decimal place (say, from 0.1% CBD to 0.3% CBD) as a reason to fun a further test. However, when it is 0.01% increasing to 0.03%, I think that *CAN be attributable to other factors.
In other words, yes, there is a difference, but it is not a reliable predictor because the percentage readings can be explained in other ways. I do not want to speak for him, but I think that *MIGHT be what Shed was trying to say (not sure).

I agree, probably you have to put some high-CBD weed in to get a meaningful, readable result.
So, if the research does not exist, I guess I can take Tangwena's advice, and put 10% of the crop into cob, and send some out for checking, before and after.
But before I do all of that, probably I need to do a web search. Probably a half an hour limit, before I go spending time and money on lab tests...

I've not done cobs but they are supposed to have some magic to them, probably because of the fermenting process, but I wonder if their effects are from something other than what we would normally test for in more typical use.

I do not do caffeine anymore, but do you ever do a Kombucha tea? It is a lot of black tea, sugar, and Kombucha starter. It is kind of like a blob that eats sugary tea, and gives off fermented sugary tea. It is great for the stomach.
Same story with yoghurt or kefir. It is just milk, but the sum of the fermentation process is much more healthwise than the whole of its parts.
Kimchi, sauerkraut, same. Both are good for the stomach and digestion. And I am sure there are more, but I never met a fermented input I did not like better than the original...
Meaning, the fermentation process adds to the sum of the parts. (Maybe like cooking Supersoil?)

(Probably I can commit more of the second crop to a ferment. Just so long as the CBD does not drop out, or convert to THC. (I cannot imagine it doing that, but you never know! Lol! And I do not mean to be a pain, but this is medical for me, so I have to quadruple check, or it will be my fault.)

Also, the CBD levels show essentially zero in both charts.

I need to see if I can find a flower test facility. I know they have some micro labs here that make oil. I am sure that one of them will be willing to test a sample of flower for not too much money.
And in the meantime, I bet it will probably work.
I will probably stick to 10% of the first crop, but I think much of the second crop can go into cob.
If anything, there is a trace indication of an increase, which may mean nothing, or it may mean who-knows-what.

Is there any way to contact the original poster of the Juanita La Lagrimosa sample, to verify that is what it was (and that he was not too stoned on cob, haha??)

CBD and CBD-A are two different molecules and interact with some of the cannabinoid receptors differently. For example CBD can offset the high from THC by disrupting its ability to fully lock into to the CB1 receptor, but CBD-A does not share that property.

Hmm.
I did not know that!
Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey cob crew, it's been a while since I've posted here but I have been catching up.

I am glad you are here. Thank you for sharing.

The talk about CBD and what happens is a good question. Here is the results from a test I did a few years ago. I tested the harvested flower right after it was dry and the cob 3 months later. The results are interesting. The tested flower had detectable CBD but the cob didn't have any.

I'm convinced there is something going on in the cob that can't be tested yet.

It sounds like it. It sounds like something in the fermentation process might alter CBD. Thank you very much for sharing this, Neiko.

By the test results you would think the cobs aren't "as good" as the flower due to the lower test results but this is not the case.

@Neiko, in what sense to you mean that? Do you mean flavor? Or do you mean CBD?
I ask because I am a medical user, and I specifically grow my strains for CBD.
(THC alone helps, but maybe like 40% of what it is like with sufficient CBD, if that makes sense.)

With my medical profile, if CBD went down in the cob, then I need to start with just a sample.
Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Azimuth]

I would be willing to look at a significant increase in the first decimal place (say, from 0.1% CBD to 0.3% CBD) as a reason to fun a further test. However, when it is 0.01% increasing to 0.03%, I think that *CAN be attributable to other factors.

A change from 0.1% to 0.3% doesn't really interest me at all, but then I grow a 15% strain (Blueberry CBD from WSE). Now, if 15% went to 45% (unlikely) that would be of interest. But 15% to 15.3%? Meh.

Just so long as the CBD does not drop out, or convert to THC.

I've never seen anything that suggests CBD concerts to THC even though they are essentially the same molecule (with only one very small difference in structure). THC does convert to a different molecule (CBN) given enough time or temperature, but I don't think CBD changes at all.

So, it is curious that the CBD vanished in the cob results.

I didn't study the reports all that closely but they both had the same test date which is also strange to me as cobbing is a multi-month process. So, if it was the same plant tested on the same date, both versions would be many months old and the flower version should have converted some of its THC-a over to THC, but it shows virtually no THC.

We're assuming it's the same plant, and, if so, the cobbing process  increased the THC-a materially (21% >> 27%)?? That makes no sense.

So, my guess is that the tests were done on the same strain, but not the same plant and therefore comparing the results is really meaningless, at least as far as trying to show some positive effects from the cobbing process.

Or maybe I'm wrong about the samples. Unfortunately it seems as though that report was from some grower on another site so perhaps getting clarification isn't possible?

 

[CBDMed]

A change from 0.1% to 0.3% doesn't really interest me at all, but then I grow a 15% strain (Blueberry CBD from WSE).

Looks good.

Now, if 15% went to 45% (unlikely) that would be of interest.

Indeed!

I've never seen anything that suggests CBD concerts to THC even though they are essentially the same molecule (with only one very small difference in structure). THC does convert to a different molecule (CBN) given enough time or temperature, but I don't think CBD changes at all.

I agree, I have a hard time believing a ferment can leave THC, but not CBD.
But still, @Neiko 's CBD levels went down, so I need to approach this carefully.

So, it is curious that the CBD vanished in the cob results.

Indeed!

I didn't study the reports all that closely but they both had the same test date which is also strange to me as cobbing is a multi-month process. So, if it was the same plant tested on the same date, both versions would be many months old and the flower version should have converted some of its THC-a over to THC, but it shows virtually no THC.

We're assuming it's the same plant, and, if so, the cobbing process  increased the THC-a materially (21% >> 27%)?? That makes no sense.

So, my guess is that the tests were done on the same strain, but not the same plant

That might make sense.
In any case, the sample of flowers was a different set of flowers than the sample of cob.
I am not sure how much variation there can be from one bud to another, but I am guessing, at least some (and I am guessing, enough to account for 0.01 to 0.03).

and therefore comparing the results is really meaningless, at least as far as trying to show some positive effects from the cobbing process.

Or maybe I'm wrong about the samples. Unfortunately it seems as though that report was from some grower on another site so perhaps getting clarification isn't possible?

Yeah, that is too bad...
I did another Google search but found nothing specifically on this.
Probably I will have to test. I guess my contribution to the scientific community, haha

 

[Scottay]

Hey @tangwena what is the largest dose you've eaten of cob? Or what combo gave you the most prolific effects. Any other cobsters chime in. Enquiring minds wanna know!! Happy Sunday/Monday folks!!

 

[tangwena]

Hey @tangwena what is the largest dose you've eaten of cob? Or what combo gave you the most prolific effects. Any other cobsters chime in. Enquiring minds wanna know!! Happy Sunday/Monday folks!!

Strangely its not so much the size of the dose in bigger is more because its not.
Sometimes less is much better.
These days my go to dose is between 1/10 and 2/10th of a gram.
I do sometimes mix different cobs and find it very effective for instance. Mulanje Gold and say Swazi.
The two give me an extended burst of focused euphoric energy great for working on complex jobs.
Higher doses trip me out which I love but obviously not when I'm working ha ha.

I dont cure for medicine. I cure for the high all this talk of tests is pointless.
Those tests I put up were from 2016. I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.
Nikos tests would be better as I know he does good cures. But testing for what?
You only get out what you put in quality begets quality.
I have never said anything else or claimed anything other than it improves the high IMO.

For me there is nothing better for my needs.
Getting a good cure is not easy it takes practice you cant do it once or twice and think you know how.

 

[tangwena]

Any process that turns green flower into things like the pics below is going to have things going on that labs cant even begin to test for IMO.

Different cure up close.

 

[CBDMed]

Strangely its not so much the size of the dose in bigger is more because its not.
Sometimes less is much better.
These days my go to dose is between 1/10 and 2/10th of a gram.
I do sometimes mix different cobs and find it very effective for instance. Mulanje Gold and say Swazi.
The two give me an extended burst of focused euphoric energy great for working on complex jobs.
Higher doses trip me out which I love but obviously not when I'm working ha ha.

I dont cure for medicine. I cure for the high all this talk of tests is pointless.
Those tests I put up were from 2016. I'm sure things have changed a lot since then.
Nikos tests would be better as I know he does good cures. But testing for what?

For CBD content, which makes a big difference for me.
Do you know anyone with a head injury? They can usually benefit from THC (if they do it right) because it makes new neural connections.
But if you know anyone with autism or epilepsy, they benefit specifically from CBD. The guys on IC Mag say that CBD 'bums the high", and I guess I can see why normal people do not need it for stability. Normal people probably just want to go into outer space, and stay there
But at times I need to get stuff done also, but CBD really provides a lot of pain relief, and grounding.
Maybe people who do not have the disability you cannot relate, but for me it makes a big difference.

I wish I could explain better, but I seem to have a few different disabilities that make it hard to relate to. So, sorry about that. I am glad the fermentation is working for you. I want to try it, but I have to make sure I get the medicine I need. (For me it is not just a high and elevated vision, it is also stability and anti-seizure and pain medicine.)

You only get out what you put in quality begets quality.
I have never said anything else or claimed anything other than it improves the high IMO.

Right.
And I want to experience that improved high!
But I also have to get my CBD (as a medical necessity), and THC does not do the same thing.
So, I need to be responsible for my own self. If I mess up my CBD grow, I have no one to blame but myself.
However, I am more than happy to experiment with all-THC weed until we get the CBD thing tested.
I am looking forward to it!

For me there is nothing better for my needs.
Getting a good cure is not easy it takes practice you cant do it once or twice and think you know how.

I am glad to learn and practice. I just need to learn and practice with all-THC weed (and not my CBD weed) until we make sure that nothing happens to the CBD.
I hope I am explaining well.
Sometimes I explain things in ways that do not make sense to other people. I do not mean anything by it. It is just part of my life that I have to deal with. Thanks for your patient understanding.
I am so glad you are here, so I can learn from the Maestro!

 

[CBDMed]

Any process that turns green flower into things like the pics below is going to have things going on that labs cant even begin to test for IMO.

Yes, I agree!
And I am totally cool with that. In fact, I am looking forward to that!!
But I have to get my CBD first, as a medical need (I do not know, maybe like some people need extra insulin?? Not sure, really. I just know it helps me so much. It is a miracle plant).

Different cure up close.

I am looking forward to learning how to do that, gro!
Thanks so very much for sharing ancient fermentation knowledge!
I love fermentation! I cannot wait to see what it does for cannabis!

I am watching the 11 Roses carefully, and will chop her when it is just the right time. Then I can go get some corn, and see if I can learn how to make it!

 

[CBDMed]

@tangwena , this one right here, gro. This one we can put the whole plant into cob.
In the next grow I want to grow some other all-THC plants, and we can put some of them into cob also.
This one does not have very many white pistils, so I think she is close. I will chop her when she is ready. I think maybe next week, but I am waiting.

 

[tangwena]

Yes, I agree!
And I am totally cool with that. In fact, I am looking forward to that!!
But I have to get my CBD first, as a medical need (I do not know, maybe like some people need extra insulin?? Not sure, really. I just know it helps me so much. It is a miracle plant).







I am looking forward to learning how to do that, gro!
Thanks so very much for sharing ancient fermentation knowledge!
I love fermentation! I cannot wait to see what it does for cannabis!

I am watching the 11 Roses carefully, and will chop her when it is just the right time. Then I can go get some corn, and see if I can learn how to make it!

I too have a problem with my head. I have to take SRI's since I had a bad reaction to a covid shot and ended up in hospital.
My life will never be the same unfortunately, the pills make me feel nothing not up not down.
But chewing the cob makes me feel everything and more the more I take.
I tried weaning myself off the SRI's I'm now on the minimum dose.
But without them I go completely off the rails so I have to keep on with the damn things.

The science behind cannabis is the wild west of science and at the moment is not worth the paper its written on.
You have found CBD works well for your condition which is great. But there may be other compounds formed while fermenting that work better for you.
Caution always but who's to know you never know until you try.

 

[Azimuth]

The guys on IC Mag say that CBD 'bums the high",

As I mentioned previously, CBD interferes with THC's ability to properly bind to the CB1 receptor and therefore reduces the 'high.

You change your screen name?

You have found CBD works well for your condition which is great. But there may be other compounds formed while fermenting that work better for you.
Caution always but who's to know you never know until you try.

Totally agree. Have to try some and see. No reason to commit an entire harvest up front, but setting some aside to try it certainly makes sense.

What's the minimum time needed to properly cure it this way? Longer probably better but what's the general window?