The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant

[Emilya Green]

I understood everything before this, and everything after this. I promise I tried understanding this part, and re-read it like 10x but could not follow...

I have not observed to see if there are bubbles happening, but I have definitely noticed that I have not been able to achieve the soil exchange that you taught us about in the first post. I will observe more closely next watering.

From my memory, it feels like I spray the soil and the water just dissipates right away, no pooling or bubbling happening.

As you continue watering toward runoff, the mini tunnels and pools will merge into the larger water table that is sitting in the bottom of the container and rising in level as you continue to water. As the water table rises up past midway in the container, it will start filling your mini tunnels that still go up to the surface, from the bottom, forcing the air that was previously pulled down into the hole, back up to the top. You don't always get bubbles, but when you do, this is what is causing the confusing phenomenon.

 

[Azimuth]

Emilya,

I note in your intro that your watering method is for larger pot sizes.

Amy Gardner sent me your way to ask about using LOS in smaller pots. I grow in a cabinet and my max pot size is 1 gal. I've read that with organics the bigger the pot the better and, at least with the Coots mix, the minimum pot size is recommended to be 7 gals or more.

Can the LOS be successfully used with 1 gal pots? And if so, any adjustments to mix, watering process, or anything else to make it work better?

I've been guilty of overwatering in the past, and am new to organics, so trying to get a handle on how to make it work in smaller pots.

Azi

 

[Jon]

Hi. Relatively new member, relatively new grower. I found your info very helpful, and thanks so much for your obvious desire to help the inexperienced grower like me. As others have noted, finding consistent information online is challenging at best. Not everyone is as forthcoming with their knowledge, so again, thanks.

So regarding the up-potting, which I equate to transplanting (right?), I am curious about the risk/reward aspect. One of the consistent pieces of information I have found online is that in any transplant from one container to another, there is going to be some amount of stress to the plant and some amount of recovery time. Ok, fine. In my upcoming grow I was going to start the seeds in Dixie cups and transplant to 3 gallon (autos) and 5 gallon (photoperiod) pots. One transplant. After reading your article and commentary in this thread, I am now wondering if it might be more advisable to do TWO transplants. I have some one gallon pots I could use that would maybe work well. So then it would be Dixie Cup > One gallon pot > 3/5 gallon final pots. Would the reward of doing it this way potentially outweigh stressing the plant out twice via two repottings?

I hope that's not a dumb question. Thanks.

 

[parrajara]

Hi. Relatively new member, relatively new grower. I found your info very helpful, and thanks so much for your obvious desire to help the inexperienced grower like me. As others have noted, finding consistent information online is challenging at best. Not everyone is as forthcoming with their knowledge, so again, thanks.

So regarding the up-potting, which I equate to transplanting (right?), I am curious about the risk/reward aspect. One of the consistent pieces of information I have found online is that in any transplant from one container to another, there is going to be some amount of stress to the plant and some amount of recovery time. Ok, fine. In my upcoming grow I was going to start the seeds in Dixie cups and transplant to 3 gallon (autos) and 5 gallon (photoperiod) pots. One transplant. After reading your article and commentary in this thread, I am now wondering if it might be more advisable to do TWO transplants. I have some one gallon pots I could use that would maybe work well. So then it would be Dixie Cup > One gallon pot > 3/5 gallon final pots. Would the reward of doing it this way potentially outweigh stressing the plant out twice via two repottings?

I hope that's not a dumb question. Thanks.

I'm new to growing too, so take my post with a grain of salt. But I have researched extensively throughout the months, and I'll let you know the general consensus I have gathered. Of course, there will always be contrasting opinions....

For photoperiods, you may be able to benefit from transplanting twice. Some people say it works, other say once is enough.

For autos... I can almost confidently tell you that you do not want to transplant these more than once. Some people even speak against transplanting at all, and they prefer starting in their original container. I have found some other useful guides online that show some interesting techniques to alleviate the stress from transplanting, which I intend to try on my next grow. I'm not sure if I can link to other forums, so I won't... but in a nutshell, you start in solo cups. First solo cup is dark to keep light away from roots, the inner solo cup (where the soil/seedling will go) should be see-through so you can monitor what is going on in there as you please. Slide the second cup back in the first as soon as you're done checking... The twist I am looking to try is to cut vertical openings along the inner cup. I intend on cutting quite a few so that when it comes to "transplanting time", I don't have to remove the seedling from the cup itself, but rather discard the outer cup and plant the seedling with the inner cup and all. Since it has vertical slits, the roots can come out that way. The second cup can than be dug into final container and the roots find their path out of that cup and thrive from there on.

Hard to explain this through text, but hope that helped. I've received quite a bit of help, so I thought I'd step back and pay it forward. You can look up Instatransplant, that may lead you somewhere.

 

[Jon]

No that actually makes perfect sense. Yes, I knew enough to know that I could only transplant (maybe) once with the autos. Thing is, it seems to me that the primary reason people advise against transplanting autos is due to their short veg cycle and trying to avoid stress in such a short cycle. I get that, but it seems to me that by using the method you describe above, the transplanting part of the transplant should cause minimal to no stress. The only stress would be the natural stress the plant underwent in learning about it's new environment. I would think an auto could take that, and we're talking about transplanting when there's maybe three sets of leaves, ie, (I would think) plenty of time to recover. Thanks again for your response.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi. Relatively new member, relatively new grower. I found your info very helpful, and thanks so much for your obvious desire to help the inexperienced grower like me. As others have noted, finding consistent information online is challenging at best. Not everyone is as forthcoming with their knowledge, so again, thanks.

So regarding the up-potting, which I equate to transplanting (right?), I am curious about the risk/reward aspect. One of the consistent pieces of information I have found online is that in any transplant from one container to another, there is going to be some amount of stress to the plant and some amount of recovery time. Ok, fine. In my upcoming grow I was going to start the seeds in Dixie cups and transplant to 3 gallon (autos) and 5 gallon (photoperiod) pots. One transplant. After reading your article and commentary in this thread, I am now wondering if it might be more advisable to do TWO transplants. I have some one gallon pots I could use that would maybe work well. So then it would be Dixie Cup > One gallon pot > 3/5 gallon final pots. Would the reward of doing it this way potentially outweigh stressing the plant out twice via two repottings?

I hope that's not a dumb question. Thanks.

The big lie that is told over and over and over again by the online "gurus" is that transplanting or uppotting can be stressful to the plant. I have never seen a plant stunt when properly transplanted, to the contrary, there is always a tremendous growth spurt immediately apparent the next day. These plants love to be uppotted and no one can convince me otherwise. I call myth on that one. I like to go solo cups to 1 gallon, then to 3 if I am moving up or 5 if it is a final. If I am going bigger than a 5, I would jump all the way from a 3 to a 7 or 10. The rewards of giving the plants a charge of fresh soil on the uppot as well as forcing a rootball at each stage are tremendous, and well worth the effort to produce. I am proving in my grow right now, lazy gardening is giving me lazy buds. If you want those big hard honking dankest of the dank... you got to work a bit.

 

[Emilya Green]

Emilya,

I note in your intro that your watering method is for larger pot sizes.

Amy Gardner sent me your way to ask about using LOS in smaller pots. I grow in a cabinet and my max pot size is 1 gal. I've read that with organics the bigger the pot the better and, at least with the Coots mix, the minimum pot size is recommended to be 7 gals or more.

Can the LOS be successfully used with 1 gal pots? And if so, any adjustments to mix, watering process, or anything else to make it work better?

I've been guilty of overwatering in the past, and am new to organics, so trying to get a handle on how to make it work in smaller pots.

Azi

Hi there Azimuth! Also thank you to @Amy Gardner for the nudge! Glad to meet ya! You are asking about LOS, living organic soil. This soil is meant to be self sustaining, the container of soil itself can be considered a living sustaining biosphere, that only needs water and a few top dressings to recharge things that begin to wear out. I have heard it said that it takes at least 15 gallons of soil to do that. LOS will not work in 1 gallon containers.
I used a method called TLO, which stands for True Living Organics, and it was sort of a crossbreed of the organic world that allowed for a true organic feeding cycle, without having to maintain a living soil environment. The trick was to use SUPERSOIL, a special blend of highly enriched soil in the bottom of the containers and then brew up specialized actively aerated compost teas, different ones for each stage of the grow. To do it right it takes hundreds of dollars of set up to get all the raw materials together, air pumps and containers, not to mention the soil... and then you have to learn how to brew the teas and put up with the mess and the smell. Organics can be messy. Also, the TLO method recommended 2gal containers or larger.
My current organic method of choice is @GeoFlora Nutrients , one of our sponsors. It requires a once every two week application of either the bloom or veg nutrient mix, right on the top of the soil as you water it in. It comes in strong with all the raw nutrients and the exact microbes needed to process them, in such huge numbers it even laughs off unprocessed tap water. It is amazing stuff and super easy to use, and would probably work in your tiny space and still give you an organic grow. Good luck!

 

[Amy Gardner]

current organic method of choice is @GeoFlora Nutrients , one of our sponsors. It requires a once every two week application of either the bloom or veg nutrient mix, right on the top of the soil as you water it in.

Glad you mentioned GeoFlora - I’ve been wondering since this conversation earlier if that would work in the super small pots. I know folks are keeping their clones happy with the veg formula in small pots. Just a question of if you can do a full run and/or flower cycle with it. I’ve grown small autoflowering plants in 1gal pots with a commercial living organic soil. Not easy or straight forward to do from scratch tho. GeoFlora may well be the ticket. I would definitely use it for my grows if I could!

 

[Azimuth]

Hi there Azimuth! Also thank you to @Amy Gardner for the nudge! Glad to meet ya! You are asking about LOS, living organic soil. This soil is meant to be self sustaining, the container of soil itself can be considered a living sustaining biosphere, that only needs water and a few top dressings to recharge things that begin to wear out. I have heard it said that it takes at least 15 gallons of soil to do that. LOS will not work in 1 gallon containers.
I used a method called TLO, which stands for True Living Organics, and it was sort of a crossbreed of the organic world that allowed for a true organic feeding cycle, without having to maintain a living soil environment. The trick was to use SUPERSOIL, a special blend of highly enriched soil in the bottom of the containers and then brew up specialized actively aerated compost teas, different ones for each stage of the grow. To do it right it takes hundreds of dollars of set up to get all the raw materials together, air pumps and containers, not to mention the soil... and then you have to learn how to brew the teas and put up with the mess and the smell. Organics can be messy. Also, the TLO method recommended 2gal containers or larger.
My current organic method of choice is @GeoFlora Nutrients , one of our sponsors. It requires a once every two week application of either the bloom or veg nutrient mix, right on the top of the soil as you water it in. It comes in strong with all the raw nutrients and the exact microbes needed to process them, in such huge numbers it even laughs off unprocessed tap water. It is amazing stuff and super easy to use, and would probably work in your tiny space and still give you an organic grow. Good luck!

So what is is about the small pots that makes the organics so difficult? It would seem that the microbes are so tiny that the process should scale up OR down, but there seems to be some sort of "cut off" point below which the dynamics change.

Btw, I've only gotten half way through the thread so far, but your watering advice will change the way I do things as I could be a poster child for many of the problems you cite from over watering, so a big THANK YOU for spreading your knowledge!

Finally, would the TLO book be useful enough for me or does the small pot size I'm limited to make it a moot point? I imagine there would be some general enough info in it to provide a foundation regardless of pot size, but before I drop the $25 I figured I'd ask.

 

[Emilya Green]

The TLO book is a wonderful resource and well worth the money, but your restrictions to anything larger than 1 gallon is a big problem. In TLO you simply can't preload enough nutrients into that small amount of soil to get through an entire grow... its not the microbes.

 

[Azimuth]

The TLO book is a wonderful resource and well worth the money, but your restrictions to anything larger than 1 gallon is a big problem. In TLO you simply can't preload enough nutrients into that small amount of soil to get through an entire grow... its not the microbes.

Ok, thanks. I've begun using the KNF (Korean Natural Farming) process you describe in other threads with the extracts of dandelion and fish, etc. and I built an airlift tea brewer for use with my home made worm castings. I also have some two year old leaf mold and a compost pile and I really don't mind adding those kinds of organic nutrients along the way. I actually enjoy engaging in my garden that way. That's the therapy part of the process for me I guess.

Do you think that will get me done in a similar way to the bottled organic nutes you are using? And if so, will the info in the book provide enough guidance to help speed me down that path? Or am I still missing something in my understanding about the interaction of the microbes and the added nutes?

And finally, you state your watering method is for 3 gals and up, so what would you change for pots smaller than those?

 

[yankeetoker]

Glad you mentioned GeoFlora - I’ve been wondering since this conversation earlier if that would work in the super small pots. I know folks are keeping their clones happy with the veg formula in small pots. Just a question of if you can do a full run and/or flower cycle with it. I’ve grown small autoflowering plants in 1gal pots with a commercial living organic soil. Not easy or straight forward to do from scratch tho. GeoFlora may well be the ticket. I would definitely use it for my grows if I could!

You can do a full run with GeoFlora, I'm finishing one now...

 

[Amy Gardner]

can do a full run with GeoFlora

Yes for sure! I was mostly wondering if it could be done in a tiny pot, with the GF. It seems possibly possible.

 

[Azimuth]

I was morally wondering if it could be done in a tiny pot, with the GF.

Hmmm. I never even considered the morals and ethics of growing in a small pot. Didn't even think that was a thing...



Lol...

 

[Amy Gardner]

Oops!! ...fixed...

 

[Azimuth]

Oops!! ...fixed...

Yeah, but now my response doesn't make sense...

 

[Amy Gardner]

Yeah it does. Your quote still has my typo in it That scenario happens a lot around here!

seeing as I’m back here, I will just say that I am a different school of thought to Em about the small pots. She’s totally right you couldn’t do a supersoil water-only grow in a 1 gallon pot because you couldn’t stack it with enough nutrients. For sure. But you can of course, like you’re kind of suggesting I think with some KNF style plant juices, add organic fertilisation. In my experience and my research I have found that what gets challenging in smaller pots is maintaining the micro life activity. The bigger the container the more easily the microherd stays thriving. I’ve grown LOS plants in 1gals. Small plants but it worked. I was replenishing soil biota and adding small amounts of feed every day during full flower. It’s not impossible. I had really superb commercial products helping me achieve this, tho.

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah it does. Your quote still has my typo in it That scenario happens a lot around here!

seeing as I’m back here, I will just say that I am a different school of thought to Em about the small pots. She’s totally right you couldn’t do a supersoil water-only grow in a 1 gallon pot because you couldn’t stack it with enough nutrients. For sure. But you can of course, like you’re kind of suggesting I think with some KNF style plant juices, add organic fertilisation. In my experience and my research I have found that what gets challenging in smaller pots is maintaining the micro life activity. The bigger the container the more easily the microherd stays thriving. I’ve grown LOS plants in 1gals. Small plants but it worked. I was replenishing soil biota and adding small amounts of feed every day during full flower. It’s not impossible. I had really superb commercial products helping me achieve this, tho.

Thanks. That's reassuring. I have a worm bin and add some fresh castings to each watering so hopefully that will help with the micros, but I guess that will only add what I have to start with, and maybe (probably?) there are lots of different kinds I don't have.

Still, people grow great gardens all the time simply with their homemade compost and whatever biota they have, though our plant is probably a bit more demanding.

I'm fortunate in that I'm only growing for myself and don't really need that much final product, but still want to do the best grow I can within my limitations.

I'm going to order the TLO book and some others and see if I can bring myself up to speed on the organics.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Another couple of books then would “teaming with microbes” and “teaming with nutrients”. Living organic soil bibles, for me

And I only mentioned the commercial aspect of the products I was using as they are highly concentrated and targeted. More so than anything I could have made - so I felt like that was part of what made the tiny pot thing possible. I use KNF and biodynamic practices as well so I’m no stranger to all DIY inputs etc. Am making my way back to the DIY methods, in fact.

 

[Azimuth]

Well, the journey is part of the therapy for me I guess. I always seem to have a project going and I enjoy the research as much as the actual project most of the time.

Thanks for the book suggestions. I'm going to start with the TLO and one called "The Regenerative Grower's Guide to Garden Amendments: Using Locally Sourced Materials To Make Mineral and Biological Extracts and Amendments."

The second one is a KNF style resource. And I suspect that may be more what I need as you and others have pointed out that I'll have trouble maintaining a decent microbe population due to the small size (you keep calling them tiny ) of my pots. The KNF outputs, as you know, generally provide plant available nutrients which I hope will be similar to what the microbes provide as they do their thing.

But as I said, this is all new to me and the small pot size adds yet another wrinkle to the mix.

Lol.