xlr8 Thank you for your insight it is very much appreciated in fact I am going to try your suggestion on DM "zone" out on next water change. fyi.. nutes I run are as follows.... GH micro grow bloom and during flower I add liquid kool blooms . I fill my res to 55 gallons and mix for 45. so that leaves quite a big buffer. My ph is stable I use GH up or down as needed but mostly down.
Titan Controls: Flo N Gro Review
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I think you'll find that it's the h2o2 that was causing the slimy gel substance as a result of sloughing off material from the roots. Good base nutrients - very similar in composition to what I use. You are managing your PH and temps well, so that's not it. I like your idea for buffering, at least until you get to know the system and the plants better. Liquid Kool Bloom is good stuff. I like that you aren't overboard with additives, which can be really tempting, yet often detrimental. Switch out the h2o2 with something like Zone, and it'll seem ridiculously easy to get good results with your set-up and conditions.
Oh, with the "Zone", I'd add in at the 55 gallon level, as this isn't so much "food" as "disinfectant" and you want to make sure you are covered. I use 2 ml per gallon typically.
Well I am pretty sure my problem is brown algae. So I am going to pick up some physan 20 also to do the dirty work so to speak and run the zone for good measure in place of h2o2. All your insight once again is very much appreciated. I'm getting pics together to start a journal. and all comments good or bad are welcome.
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- #144
Hiya Nmherbman -
You would not need Physan 20 in addition to Zone - Zone is effective against same things as Physan 20 so one or the other will work. I've not used Physan 20, but it performs the same functions. Zone also works to minimize or eliminate algae, fungus, pathogens etc. (like P 20). Also on algae, it's a bit of an eyesore, but doesn't have a noticeable impact on our plants typically. Still, I work to limit/remove it as well...
From what i understand its not an algae at all its a bacteria that thrives on dead organic matter and oxygen. After reading all the warnings on the P20 i decided to not use just seemed way harsh and not meant to be used on fruits or veggies! so i thought hmmmm why the he** would I put it in something I grow as medicine so that pretty much turned me off to it . I did however scrub down hole setup res pumps buckets lines. when i set it back up I filled res and added zone let it just recirculate for about hour then added my nutes then ph. hopefully I caught it in time. My last crop was very sad i got that funk and barely managed to save them. im pretty sure I have tracked down the start of the issue it was when I reused my hydroton. because before i started reusing it I never had as many issues as i have had my last two grows.
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- #146
I do personally re-use hydroton, but it gets washed in bleach, rinsed really well, then disinfected with h2o2 first. It's a helluva lot of work, but it does work great and allows for re-use. I hate washing hydroton, but I hate wasting it more...
Technically speaking, you won't be able to get hydroton soon - if not already. There are other similar products being launched, but the actual product "hydroton" was mined from a very specific clay mine, which has been completely stripped and it's now gone for good. Crazy, huh!?
Technically speaking, you won't be able to get hydroton soon - if not already. There are other similar products being launched, but the actual product "hydroton" was mined from a very specific clay mine, which has been completely stripped and it's now gone for good. Crazy, huh!?
I'll second X's recommendation of DM Zone. He's right on the money with everything about flood & drain vs (R)DWC. I'm guilty of applying some of their lessons to my system though. I have 2 air pumps into 4 stones in my res. When it comes to DO, we have one of those "can't hurt, might help" situations. I agree, it's probably not helping the root zone get more O, but it makes me feel better about keeping the res free of anaerobic pathogens.
The whole reason I can't bring myself to do DWC is because of how much O a flood and drain system provides. In every hydro system that leaves roots submerged, it's a constant fight to keep the roots from drowning. Flood & Drain just seems like the obvious solution. I also feel like oxygenating the roots is even more important than the water and nutrients. I've seen plants with roots that were too wet or too dry, but never too oxygenated.
That being said, once I get my basement dialed in a bit more, I am going to build a 5g DWC to try.I use almost the exact same recipe, except I also use GH FloraBlend. The 2 parts of GH's simple recipe I don't use are the FlorilisciousPlus and the Dry KoolBloom. I start with RO, and find the GH stuff to keep my ph real stable as well. The other things I add are calmag, Hygrozyme, a little epsom salts, and some Superthrive. I'd be surprised if you didn't need some calmag, but you know your plants better than I do. I just know that even when I used GH Flora in the 90's I had to add epsom salts (I wish I could remember what we used for Ca). I'm running the Hygrozyme because I know I have decaying matter in the system, and it's supposed to help 'clean it up'. The Superthrive is just because I always used it back in the day, and it's relatively cheap as far as additives go. I think it's real important during stressful events like transplanting, but I could probably forgo it in flower.
I also do the same thing as you with regards to mixing my 50g using a 40g recipe. I found that my plants were starting to burn around 1500 ppm, so I shoot for 1300ish now. I'm currently running several strains though. I know some of these could take more though. You'll just have to get to know your strain and figure out what she likes.
I do this too. I mix a 40g nute recipe into 50g, but I add the Zone for all 50g.
Sometimes I swear you read my mind! That's exactly my feelings, but then again, I hate to waste anything.
Sorry no update xlr8, and hiker. Life.... So here it is.... xlr8 HUGE THANKS on DM Zone!!!!!!! I have been dedicated to farming this sacred plant for just over 2 yrs. Started with the bare minimum but I had a goal to have three rooms all dedicated to a single phase of the plants life. Since then I have been non stop I've had PM,mites,fungus gnats, room environment hurdles, as well as bacterial issues. I never let it get me down. I just stayed steady reading gaining all the knowledge I could on my own. It finally came down to the fact that I realized I needed some insight on indoor horticulture. I found out quickly that the majority of growers I knew had less of a clue than I did or they were just plain not interested in sharing knowledge. Just about a year in I started having bigger issues thats when a friend I will refer to as the "Jedi" lent a hand and showed me the ways of the plant. My yields improved and then summer came and thus started my room environment issues..... which I am finally getting a much better understanding of... I guess what I am getting at is a straight up "hats off" to my friend the Jedi and to you xlr8 and to those who truly are out there to give good info to those that are in need of help. THANK YOU for sharing your wealth of knowledge. That being said I have another question!!! XLR8 I thought back to when my issue with the "slime" started in my previous grow... The last 2 times I have transferred my clones they were in my cloner for a long while and the roots had become VERY long and entangled with each other and when i pulled them out I imagine i damaged or killed part of them off (roots) when I inserted them in the flongro and threw on a couple pounds of clay crushing the fragile roots couple days later "slime" so dead roots+high DO levels= bacterial growth I use to think longer roots would take off faster what i did not consider is how the roots grow. so question is should roots be closer to top rather than run through the center from the bottom up when transferring into flongro? Once again Thank you for your time and dedication.
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- #149
Hi nmherbman -
First, thanks for the kind words!
I typically try to not let the roots get too long before transplanting to the Flo N Grow. But, there have been times when they've gotten a little longer. When they have, I've let them extend down and carefully surround them with the pebbles as to minimize stress. Perhaps it's the Zone, but I've not had many problems as a result of longer roots during transplant, though I try not to let them get too long, first (personally). It sounds like you might want to transplant them a little sooner when you can to minimize stress, especially if they are getting tangled together in the cloner, etc. Does that answer your question?
First, thanks for the kind words!
I typically try to not let the roots get too long before transplanting to the Flo N Grow. But, there have been times when they've gotten a little longer. When they have, I've let them extend down and carefully surround them with the pebbles as to minimize stress. Perhaps it's the Zone, but I've not had many problems as a result of longer roots during transplant, though I try not to let them get too long, first (personally). It sounds like you might want to transplant them a little sooner when you can to minimize stress, especially if they are getting tangled together in the cloner, etc. Does that answer your question?
!!
Agreed herbman kudos to the select few that really enjoy helping others. researching the flo n gro online led me to this site an i can say it an the people here have helped me a lot. While i was browsing I noticed you guys talking about this green 'slime'. I also ran across this issues last night i am on week 4 of Veg. the slime is on my hose on the interior an i see where the bubbles coming up from the airstones has cause a rim around my reservoir. I walked into my room an noticed my temps were up to 77 degrees in my Res. I had been gone for 2 days, i just assumed i had caught early stages of root rot. So i emptied my res did a deep clean an refilled it fresh. Good friend of mine who has been growing for years swears by H2o2. I've been using it at about 4oz per res change weekly. I actually have DM zone i was just holding off until Flower to use it. So i guess from reading the last 2 pages, do you think its early root rot or is the H2o2 working against my Orca an Hygrozyme creating this substance? The heat was an issue i understand but it wasn't like that for long. I hadn't had any issues so i hadn't even taken precautions at bringing the temp down. Also im looking into flipping to flower shortly what kind of a root system/plant height do you usually go by?
Unreal first drop yours temp if possible! Try stay under 70 you will have better results!
OK the orca and hygrozyme both contain live bacteria as soon as you add the h2o2 anything alive is dead same with Zone. What kind of setup do you run, and how big res? if it looks like the picture i have in the gallery its a bacteria cause by decaying matter and thrives in oxygen rich environment. H202 is oxidizer when it attaches to anything live it throws off oxygen as a by product it also strips the outer most surface of the roots and with high water temps mixed with high oxygen content mixed with roots dying from temps=slime.......DM zone has treated me good since started using and its nice you only add at water changes not every 3 days cleared it right up and I have never had better lookin root zone.I flower my plants when they are 5 weeks into veg. i stay on a cycle so the height varies but generally they are between 20 and 24 inches tall measuring from the top of the medium up. Hope I was of some help check out my journal..''Titan Controls- Flo n Gro Pineapple Express First Journal'' type in search. Last appreciate the kudos
Thanks my man very useful and what a response its 2:30 am, I'm up making a snack an cleaning my water pipe and i come back to a response =). Ya your pictures are exactly what was going on in my situation except i was anal and caught it at a moments notice. So I guess now that I'm reading this obviously I need to drop my H2o2 an just save it for sanitizing. There is so much hype over the zone I actually already even bought a bottle of it. Is there a happy medium if i use a small dosage? Also I've noticed my pH gradually going up .2-.4 every 1-2 days this more than likely has to do with the H2o2 i assume? By my calender I am on week 3 of Veg.. They are still really short and bushy about 8 inches. I pulled the switch to get the whole system going too early before i could get my Co2 setup running. Its a sealed room and I think it screwed with their growth. Its not dead air i rigged something up but its not where I want it to be. As far as temps, I am running the Flo n Gro 55 gal it is in my room with my lights. My plan was to insulate the res an swap out some frozen bottles if need be. I'm from Maine, christ it just snowed today I didn't think i would have to worry just yet so I don't think that is going to be a problem in the future. I have my 1000 watts about 30 inches from the tops should i readjust to try an get some stretch out of the ladies or play it out? The strain is M.o.B. (mother of berries) a Maine bred strain this is my first round with it an apparently its rare i see no info on it online. my friend said its good outdoors mold resistant naturally purple hue an has a 42-50 day flower time. Along with the clipping he gave me a satchel of the stuff to try and it was to die for.
Hey nmherbman, I don't think Hygrozyme has anything alive in it. My understand is it's all enzymes. That's why they say it has unlimited shelf life. I've not used Orca, but I think you're right about that one having live things in it.
I think you're on the right track unreal. Save the H2O2 for cleaning. The DM Zone works well. Is there any chance you can move the reservoir outside the room? It would probably help with temps.
I think you're on the right track unreal. Save the H2O2 for cleaning. The DM Zone works well. Is there any chance you can move the reservoir outside the room? It would probably help with temps.
Well to be honest i just made a pretty dirty work bench for myself in the only spot to re position the res.. my room is 12x14 with a 4x4 doorway into the room...I could put the res in the doorway but itd be a bitch to get in an our of there an i wouldnt have my little bench. it would still be in the same room but hidden behind panda plastic from the light i just dont know if thatd be worth it in the end. Im going to monitor it an use frozen 2 liter bottles if i have to. If it becomes a huge problem ill get a chiller. I'm not starved for money but then again I made the first growers mistake. Going all out on my first hydro grow so im trying to keep it minimal til i see some return. Flo N Grow, 2 1000 watt Solis Tek with the digi ballast, 3 vortex fans, aerocloner, Atlas 1 with tank an regulator, nutes an everything else. Not trying to brag now that i reread the post but I cant post pics so just wanted to give you an idea of what i'm working with. My buddy swears by Orca he used to use that Great White an it was the most beneficial thing he said but then when they released Orca it was over the top. Then roaming Alaskans journal months ago i saw him talking highly about it also, so i figured its a must. Now that im looking back at Alaskan journal i see that he doesn't use H2o2 an no DM zone til Flower. So im still going to rep my Orca til Flower an then go from there. Im doubting im going to have any issues an long as i pay attention. Only thing that pisses me off is i spent 3 hours cleaning an refilling with a fresh res last night. An the new res will put me over my nutes so ill have to buy more. Zzzzzzzzz overall though Flo n Gro for the damn win this is my first Hydro run an I'm amazed by the hands free.
please post some information and a link to that orca mycrozyme.
Sounds right on post some pics so we can check it out. Are things looking better yet... I went ten ml. zone per gl. and next change dropped it to 5. so far awesome results. I also agree with hiker about moving res out 0f room if possible.
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