Attention all California growers! CA Cannabis industry, market and laws.

[whereisjeff]

Ok folks, I'm making an attempt to push the boundaries and move the bar forward in regard to what we can talk about in the forums. Today Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Feds will no longer be going after growers or distributors unless they break BOTH fed and state laws. So growing MMJ is Cali and distributing it through co-ops and dispensaries is now legal with the proper paperwork and we should be able to talk about it now.

So, I would like to create this thread to discus the business side of the medical cannabis industry in California, including different career fields and opportunities in the industry, the MMJ commodity market and how to stay within the law and out of jail. And I'm calling on all California growers, legal professionals and anyone with knowledge about the industry to contribute to this for the good of all.

I'll get us started with the following questions:

- How hard is it for a grower to arrange a business relationship to grow for a co-op or dispensary? How does one go about that?

- I realize the market price varies, but what is the average price a broker or dispensary pays for a pound to the grower? Is there a difference between the two? Does a grower have to go through a broker or direct to the dispensary?

- How does the market price vary from strain to strain and how do you find out what strain is in high demand and obtain those seeds or clones?

Thanks in advance to all that contribute!

 

[obiwannatokie]

Unfortunately what Holder says is nothing but words until cannabis is either removed completely from the CSA (ideal)or it is scheduled much lower in the CSA.(realistic)

Let's say that DEA just up and says we are going to listen to the AG and not use federal resources to enforce federal law in MMJ states, which is very unlikely. That still allows them wiggle room to target MMJ clinics that are perceived as being in violation with state law. For example they could still target caregivers who only provide MMJ and no other medical services, under the CA supreme court Mentch decision. This would include dispensaries that are not collectives of mmj pacients.

In short even if the DEA was to follow Holder's orders to the letter, (which legally they can ignore.) there is still plenty of wiggle room for them to harass MMJ operations under the guise of enforcing state rather then federal law.

We are not out of the woods yet.

 

[whereisjeff]

I know, we have a long way to go, but we're finally starting to make some headway. We'll see the federal law changed in the next few years, the dems in congress and the prez have bigger fish to fry before they use up political capital on this issue (ie: financial crisis, healthcare, 2 wars). Baby steps, my friend

Now, can anyone help answer the questions in this thread?

 

[Keith Lake]

Very interesting topic. I'm really interested to see the answers as well.

 

[420]

me too, this may turn into a valuable resource to bring more people out of the Cannabis closet...
please make sure everyone stays on topic and no hookups...

 

[Bonehead]

- How hard is it for a grower to arrange a business relationship to grow for a co-op or dispensary? How does one go about that?

- I realize the market price varies, but what is the average price a broker or dispensary pays for a pound to the grower? Is there a difference between the two? Does a grower have to go through a broker or direct to the dispensary?

- How does the market price vary from strain to strain and how do you find out what strain is in high demand and obtain those seeds or clones?

I would like to add to this and ask how a grower can stay within the law when comes to the amount you can grow?

If you took a single grow with 6 plants and lets say they produced 150 grams each, doesn't that put you in violation of the Prop 215 (CA)? What would you do with the extra or how do you have a continuous grow-op when you can't actually predict the outcome.

I have been at one collective when it must have been buying day. I flood of people coming with duffle bags of something (wink) but I still do not know how the process works.

 

[hoppie]

It is weird how all this is panning out. In Washington the law states 15 plants and 22 or 24 ounces. I have a wonderful set of providers and I seem to feel just recently that maybe we have it even better then Cal. While there will always be those that stretch the boundaries the people here are really looking out for the patients welfare. I am retired and I have enough financial resources that if things were opened up enough I would invest in my own greenhouse and provide for both myself and others. It will be interesting to see how things turn out politically in the next few years.

 

[CharlieMopps]

I remember reading a while back on how the govt keeps tabs on mmj because of the interstate commerce clause in the constitution. I forget what it says tho, can somebody help me out.

 

[Keith Lake]

I would like to add to this and ask how a grower can stay within the law when comes to the amount you can grow?

If you took a single grow with 6 plants and lets say they produced 150 grams each, doesn't that put you in violation of the Prop 215 (CA)? What would you do with the extra or how do you have a continuous grow-op when you can't actually predict the outcome.

Two points from my understanding

1) That's per patient, so if you are a caregiver for more than 1, you get to prorate
2) The limits you quote are the "safe harbor" provision, meaning that no county can set the limit any lower than this. It does not necessarilly mean this is the maximum anywhere. I'd suggest you check the specific county you're interested in to understand their rules/limits

 

[Keith Lake]

I remember reading a while back on how the govt keeps tabs on mmj because of the interstate commerce clause in the constitution. I forget what it says tho, can somebody help me out.

Yeah, The enumerated powers clause of the Constitution (Article 1, section 8) is what should prevent the Federal government from having any power to involve themselves in a citizens right to use a plant. Essentially, the Constitution was structured so that it stated what the Fed's could specifically do, and all else was supposed to be prohibited from their authority.

As a result, when they wanted to push further into the people's business and get more power and control they had to figure out a convoluted rationale (strawman) to justify their actions. The interstate commerce clause was the stretch they used.

I ask you though... What does a man growing a plant in his own home for consumption in is own home have to do with Interstate Commerce?

 

[CharlieMopps]

Ah, yes. From capitalism magazines website:
Back in 1942, the Supreme Court authorized the vastly expanded powers of the federal government under Franklin D. Roosevelt's administration by declaring that a man who grew food for himself on his own land was somehow "affecting" prices of goods in interstate commerce and so the federal government had a right to regulate him.
Stretching and straining the law this way means that anything the federal government wants to do can be given the magic label "interstate commerce" -- and the limits on federal power under the 10th Amendment vanish into thin air.

 

[Marbles420]

If you took a single grow with 6 plants and lets say they produced 150 grams each, doesn't that put you in violation of the Prop 215 (CA)? What would you do with the extra or how do you have a continuous grow-op when you can't actually predict the outcome.

Two points from my understanding

1) That's per patient, so if you are a caregiver for more than 1, you get to prorate
2) The limits you quote are the "safe harbor" provision, meaning that no county can set the limit any lower than this. It does not necessarilly mean this is the maximum anywhere. I'd suggest you check the specific county you're interested in to understand their rules/limits

I agree with Soniq420, these are only guidelines and are NOT binding laws. If a patient stays within the guidelines, they will have little or no trouble with the authorities if investigated. If you are over the guidelines, you still stand a good defense if you can prove that it's medically beneficial by a legal recommendation from a Cannabis Doctor. The doctor's can recommend more cannabis (above the guidelines) if he or she feels you require it. And BTW, we need more dispensaries/Co-Ops in So Cal.

 

[ForbiddenAct]

The biggest paycheck today are defense attorney (both public and private), prosecuters (city, state, local), Marijuana brokers, drug testing labs, and lobbist.

I think, for the most part, the government is the only one randomly testing their employees, and the D.O.T. is randomly testing truck drivers and Airline pilots (probably a good thing if you drive a VW Bug or fly the airlines regularly). I suspect if you look deep enough into government testing, you'll find your Right Wing Republician lobbist using it as a tool in keeping drug testing labs profitable enough to keep them open....(for pork spending).

If your trying to understand how the MMJ industry will materialize, you can study the alcohol and tabacco industry.

Chances are the mmj industry will look for the skills of those in the tabacco and alcohol industry. They have the same type of customer, and deal with a lot of taxes and regulations. We already know that a glass a day of wine adds 20 years to your lifepopcorn.

Money brings out the best of everyone, so as the industry begans to bring billions of tax dollars to states, the negative stigma, assoicated with Marijuana, will follow the lines of today's view on alcohol and tabacco.

There are drug companies who have proprietary business plans, secert and ready to act, when the FDA and DEA management are replaced with a more competent workforce. Not to say the the workforce is uneducated, just that the environment in those workplaces are very political, and having any view other than status quo, will get you in trouble, and more than likely fired. I hear we are making head way, and the government is having a hard time find replacements that still hold those original views. Not even our president holds to their beliefs, but this is why it has been so difficult to make a lot of progress, until the last 10 years have showed us whats to come.

This week Obama ask for a 100 million dollar cut in spending. It would be pretty easy to do if they disbanned(merge) the DEA into small department under the FDA, and focused more on healthcare needs of the american population.

Could it be the DEA is losing their war because its beliefs are not in line with the writings in the bible? The victims of this war have sacrifaced their life(jail), just as Jesus did 2008+ years ago. It may take another 100 years, for historians to conclude, that these people are actually angels sent from god to continue Jesus's work on earth.

Is it not god who supplied the world with this spirtual plant of plenty? Maybe we should have a spritual section in this forum.

May god bless all his warrior's, as I thank them for their efforts too bring peace, to the american communities and abroad.fftopic:

 

[Bonehead]

Could it be the DEA is losing their war because its beliefs are not in line with the writings in the bible? The victims of this war have sacrifaced their life(jail), just as Jesus did 2008+ years ago. It may take another 100 years, for historians to conclude, that these people are actually angels sent from god to continue Jesus's work on earth.

Is it not god who supplied the world with this spirtual plant of plenty? Maybe we should have a spritual section in this forum.

May god bless all his warrior's, as I thank them for their efforts too bring peace, to the american communities and abroad.fftopic:

Well said ForbiddenAct.

 

[Keith Lake]

Obama also went to Mexico (this week/last week) and said we need to "crack down" on illicit drug use in the US. Not exactly an end the drug war type of message

I think what his actual policy ends up being is still an open issue. It seems to move around a lot. I'm praying his inner conscious will lead him to do what's right, not what the entrenched infrastructure is crying for.

re the 100 million spending reduction Obama was talking about; that represents 13 minutes of spending for the federal government. I'd think if he digs real deep, he might be able to scrape that together

 

[hoppie]

Hello,
Yes things are not cut and dry are they? We have to interpret and hope we are right. To put people with cancer and compromised functioning through this gray area of legal mumbling seems highly unfair. There is a great difference in quality between growers of the same strains and we depend on a persons honesty as to whether or not spraYs were used etc. Why is public opinion allowed in medicine? What does opinion have to do with what medicine a person needs to take? A person who will die in 3 days should not take heroin because they may become addicted? Who makes up this stuff? If weed helps people who are sick then the gov. has no place telling doctors how to practice. How many years did they hang on to the world being flat? The way they have it set up now is ripe for organized crime to enter and profit from. Their own laws has turned this into a cash cow for organized crime just like prohibition did 80 years ago. In wa. we can grow 15 plants and if we supply someone else as well then we can double that to 30 and so on. I believe that growers should be lic. and inspected for cleanness. I believe that they should be req. to have security and help prevent diversion to the non medical population. I am for making this work truthfully as it should.

 

[Keith Lake]

^^

 

[thecyberartis]

Agreed Hoppie - I am a new member and newly carded patient who has used every prescription sleep aid on the planet as well as anti-anxiety drugs... can't help but feel some of the people in there today trying to get their card were just social users: in the way the acted, looked and complete lack of any medical records.

I'm not one to judge, but out of 8 people, I was the only one not empty handed. If the medical issue is to be taken seriously, I think the industry needs to show they have better controls - but that would decrease profits...

I was very happy with my experience but am concerned that the lack of controls, from what I've seen today at the doctors office and the dispensary, is going to backfire on the industry and possibly in a hard way. If they take away what few rights we have as patients, it will be much harder to fight and get them back, let alone move forward. As an aside, taking away what I used to base my assumption of people in the doctors office, people I saw coming out of the dispensary were high fiving, hooting and hollering less than favorable language - kind of hard to build public favor when acting like your 14 in front of a very large, lit up MJ leaf!

Just my two cents... because I'd like to see the industry move forward and not grow stagnant or decrease in size - I really dont want to go back on Ambien and Buspar!

TheCyber

 

[markscastle]

The truth is the courts through out limits for medical growers and everyone is growing so much the market is flooded in Cali! It`s still against the law to sell,even to despenceries, but police and even the Feds are mostly looking the other way. The prices are down to nothing and no one is making any money anymore.Small growers who use the extra funds to help support there families are near starvation. Despenceries have lowered there prices as much as overhead allows but can`t compete with the much lower street prices and many will go under soon. Street dealers are also hurting with much lower prices and many customers are growing there own or getting it from someone else who is.In Cali 95% of supply is outdoor grown and prices for outdoor have dropped in some areas lower than it was in the sixties.To compound this problem The State is in such an economic setting with the housing market situation that it may not survive much longer and almost no money is being spent on social services or medcaid.Families are living on the streets in every city and counties and cities have no money to combat the situation as the State robs local funding trying to survive it`s self. Many cities are almost gost towns.There are much higher unemployment rates than are being reported because people have given up looking for work.Food,fuel,and other costs are going up while MJ prices are hitting rock bottem.We may not be able to eat but we can afford to medicate.Helps when you can`t aford a doctor.