Grape Krush Gone Awry - Unusually Reduced Yield

[Bindi]

Hello there,
I've been growing a very fine DJ Short strain, Grape Krush, for about a year or so (from clones I took from original seed-grown phenotypes). I have had consistently good results-- good yield, nice firm fruity buds.This past grow has been disastrous. Strange, because I've done several things recently that I was certain would help increase quality and yield-- started a new nutrient program (House and Garden); I'm adjusting ph and temps; (the last several grows I grew in cheap soil, moderate quality ferts, no ph adjustment; little temp control; powdery mildew).

At first the new plants were amazing. Giant green leaves, huge stalks. More vitality than I've ever seen. The buds looked like they would be massive. I let them go a little past their usual eight weeks, til all of the trichomes were cloudy with a few ambers.

I noticed the buds didn't seem as dense at first, but I tried not to worry too much. But it became clear as I trimmed that they were much smaller and less dense. The overall yield is greatly depleted, 50% less than the last grow.

I can't figure out what I did. Three possibilities come to mind-- one, that DJ's strains like less ferts and maybe the House and Garden program was too much for the Grape. Second, about three weeks before they finished, I had switched out my green light bulb for a green compact flourescent. Lastly, I recently changed from two 1,000 watts to three 600s on a rail, though I did this a few grows ago and didn't see a big difference.

Do any of these things seem to be the problem? Does anyone have any insight to offer? I'm not sure whether to keep up with the House and Garden--it's expensive. Some have suggested that maybe it's a problem with the strain, like maybe they have lost their vitality from cloning, but I trust DJ's genetics to last a while and never had a prob until now. ALso, I was growing a few F-13s in the room and they had the same problems.

Someone else at the grow store suggested some kind of phosphorus additive to the plants to throw them into bud and cut off rampant vegetative growth. Anyone have experience w/ this?

Help!

xo
Bindi

 

[CnstntGrdnr]

Phosphorous uptake DOES increase dramatically during the flowering stage of growth, however, I don't think that would change your yield that dramatically.

Were your temperature and humidity levels consistent throughout your grow? Did the plants go through any stressful periods that may have stunted their growth or production?

I'm a rookie, but I'm interested to hear what others experienced growers have to say. McBudz would be a really good person to ask on this, or Cherma. Both are members of Grow Support.

 

[Bindi]

Thanks, CnstntGrdnr,
I'm not sure if I placed my plea for help in the right place.

How does one find the folks you mentioned?

Hopefully I'll figure this out before I get too discouraged!

xo
Bindi

 

[Bindi]

Oh, I forgot to mention-- my temps were pretty constant-- 70 during light cycle, 60 during dark, tho they sometimes dropped down in the 50's during the dark.

Humidity seemed to stay between 50-60%.

No real stress to the plants that I can tell. Like I said, they looked AMAZING until they were fully in flower, but the buds just didn't do well.

xo

 

[Bindi]

another odd thing is that the stems are hollow, especially near the top.
Bindi

 

[Racefan]

another odd thing is that the stems are hollow, especially near the top.
Bindi

That's normal.
What are you doing with the green bulb? Do you need access to your room during the dark cycle or something? That's the only reason I know of for a green bulb. If that's the case you figured out your problem. Light leaks will cause the exact symptom you speak of. Fluffy buds. That and the change. You should have seen that the buds were less dense as they grew. The fact that you didn't make me wonder how diligent you are with the proper care and feeding.
Break down your set up and system by answering the questions in this link.
How to Ask for Grow Support

 

[Bindi]

Thanks for the response, Racefan.
The green flourescent bulb is for when I needed to go in to do simple tasks like turn on the heat, etc. Didn't go in often.

Another weird thing is that I had two other plants in the room-- OG Kush and Purple Kush-- and though they didn't look as big and green, they yielded much better than the Grape Krush.


What Strain is it? Grape Krush
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? 50/50 Indica/Sativa hybrid
How Many Plants? 45
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? (harvested)
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? (they were in veg 3 weeks)
If in Flowering Stage... How Long?(they were in flower 9 weeks)
Indoor or Outdoor? (indoor)
Soil or Hydro? (soil)
If Soil... What is in your Mix? (coco)
If Soil... What Size Pot? (3 gallon)
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? 3 600 watt lights on rail
Is it Air Cooled? (not at this time--winter temps are cold enough)
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? (70 degrees day, 55-60 night)
RH of Room/Cabinet? (50-60 %)
PH of Medium or Reservoir? (5.8)
Any Pests? (mites)
How Often are you Watering? (every four days)
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? (House and Garden regular strength)
Size or Square Footage of Room? (100 square feet)

Bindi

 

[CnstntGrdnr]

I'm sure this was a fluke grow. It sounds like you're very diligent (much more than other growers I've seen on this site) and that you care a lot about your techniques. I wouldn't worry much about severe criticism you receive from others on this site. Just try to stick to the basics and try again! Good luck with your next grow Bindi!

 

[Racefan]

Well if you didn't use it often it might not have been a reason. Could just be a finicky plant. I've grown the grape crush and while she's not the best yielder she does ok. I love the flavor though. 5.8ph is low for a soil grow. Try raising it to the 6.2 to 6.3 range.

 

[Bindi]

Thanks guys for the responses!

Thanks, CnstntGrdnr, for the encouragement. I hope it was just a fluke, like you say, but it sure seems weird.

Racefan, I agree that Grape Krush is finicky, and I have heard others say it as well. But it sure is a sweet strain, and I, too, love the aroma and flavor. I hate to give it up. I'm still thinking it might be the ferts, as Grape Krush is typically a low feeder, and I've read that lots of peeps use half-strength ferts for it. I didn't, because I wanted to follow through with the House and Garden ferts as directed and see how things went.

The thing that makes me the most suspicious about the ferts is that the plants were HUGE, with giant stalks and shade leaves, bigger than they ever were before. And this happened in flower! I wonder if maybe they were just stuck in grow mode and that's why they didn't bulk up.

I'm growing the next batch with half-strength, and if that doesn't do it, I guess I'll sadly leave the Grape behind. I hate giving up, but another cruddy harvest will just about do me in.

Yours,
Bindi

 

[mtlhead]

just a greenhorns thoughts, but wouldnt the decreased light strength (from 2 @ 1000w. down to 3 at 600w) have something to do with it. I've read here and in books, that the intensity of a single 1000w is greater than 2 at 600w? also, is it not true that flower density increases with light intensity, not light quanity. I guess what I'm saying here is that a 1000w bulb is still a stronger light than even 2 600w's....am I right?

 

[McBudz]

Mites will cripple a plant in no time. Did you have mites on the previous crop? I have seen plants stop still in growing when they had mites. Extreme stress on the plant.

What were the night time temps on the previous higher yielding grows? Maybe grape does not like the 15deg or so delta in temp?

Really hard to say given you changed several things.

Also I like 5 gallon over 3 gallon pots if vegging 3 full weeks.

racefan is right about pH it should be in mid 6 range. I like 6.3-6.5 but may go as high as 6.7.

 

[Bindi]

Mtlhead-- thanks for the thought. I changed out the lights a few grows ago, and ever since I've had slightly less yield, but not the huge difference as with the last grow. I'm going to add in another 600, bringing me to 4 600-watt lights, and see if that helps.

McBudz-- Hmm. I did have a mite problem, though the plants seemed extremely hardy and vigorous. No sign of ill health until the buds were well under way. I did see quite a few mites munching away on trichomes-- man that killed me. I will be more diligent about 86ing the dang buggers.

I have been keeping the ph at 5.8 as recommended by House and Garden when using their ferts, and growing in coco.

The temperature difference between night and day was not so wide in the last grow. I will definitely try to keep them a little closer together.

I still have suspicions that it was the nutes that f#@^%ed up the grow. I just read the House and Garden disclaimer that said that different plants have different fert needs and to adjust accordingly if a plant seems to be overloaded. I'm going with half-strength this time and see what happens.

Thanks for the insight!

xo
Bindi

 

[dom42]

a buddy of mine had the same issue when switching to House and Garden....the 5.8 is perfect for what you are doing (you said "Coco" right)....when he swith over he was just using there a and b along with the root exelerator. On the next grow he use all of what they are calling for (a and b, drip clean, root exel, bud xl, top booster, etc) . after that he hasn't had a problem....even does a little high dose then the aggresive schedule. good luck.........ill end this by saying what you said....could be the strain too lol.

 

[prosmoke]

that is too too bad my friend...

 

[cannacrazy]

Your clone is played out. Time to buy new seeds and start fresh man. Clones and mothers get old sometimes, a lot of times in fact.