Looking for some advice

[MAD DAWG]

Ok. I have spent some time reading through some of the stickies but there are so many that I thought that this may be a faster and easier way.
I am growing White Widow. It is in a 60/40 mix of FFOF and Sunshine 8. It will be 2 weeks exactly tomorrow (Thursday). It is about 2 inches 1 1/2 to 2" tall. I have it in a solo cup. How do I know when to transplant it? I don't really want to wait till I see the root coming out of the bottom of the cup. I have it under a 2 lamp 54w high output fluro. Seems to be looking really good. I was going to transplant it today but decided to wait for about another week or so. I have not used any nutes of any kind so far.

Also I will be transplanting into a 3 or 5 gallon (prob 5) pot with 100% FFOF. Since it is loaded with nutes, how long should I wait to hit it with some Grow Big after transplanting? I also have Big Bloom and 'Tiger Bloom. I know the TB is for when it starts going into the flowering cycle. On the FF chart it has me a little confused. It shows using the BB during the veg cycle as well? I thought you wanted to wait to use it for flowering as well? I know not to use the recommended doses as it can burn your plant. I am looking at a height of around 3 to 4 ft. I MIGHT be able to get by with 5 ft but that would be pushing it. So I won't be vegging for very long.

So my main questions so far are knowing when to transplant from the solo cup to the pot. And when to start using the GB and for how long? Since I plan on vegging till it is around 2 ft tall and then going into flowering.

I also have a 150w HPS. I would like to keep vegging under the fluro since it seems to be doing really good under them. But should I move it under the HPs after transplanting?

This is my first attempt at my first indoor grow as you can guess so any help, suggestions, advice, comments, etc... are and would be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions to better help you answer any of my questions please feel free to ask.

Thank you

Here are some recent pics. - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

 

[MAD DAWG]

Update

Well I just got done transplanting. I was waiting on some advice but didn't get any feedback so I went ahead with the transplanting. Basically cause I noticed a couple small tiny roots coming out of the bottom of my cup through the drain holes. I used 5 gallon pots. I had watered earlier in the day so it wasn't the best time to transplant. But I didn't want to wait. So I filled the pot with some dirt, gave it a little water, filled in some more, gave a little water, and kept doing that till I got it full. I never did get any run out so I believe I didn't over water it. The soil in the pot felt pretty consistent with the moisture in my solo cup. I had it in a solo cup and seeing how the soil was still pretty moist, I took a razor blade and cut the bottom of the cup off. I had already measured the depth of my hole in my pot by using an empty solo cup. After cutting the bottom off, I then made a cut down the side of the whole length of the cup. I sat it in the hole I had made and gently lifted the cup up leaving most of the soil along with the plant in the pre-made hole. Only thing, when I took the bottom of the cup off, with the soil being moist, some of it stuck to the bottom and I ended pulling a couple of small roots out with it. Not many, just a very little bit. Same thing with one of the sides of the cup. When I lifted it up a root or two was stuck to it. So I hope I didn't mess it up and ultimately end up killing it. It was looking so good.

It was doing so well under the fluro that I raised my fluro up a little and put the pot back under it. The fluro is almost resting on top of the pot. The plant is down in the pot a couple of inches so I would say it's about 4" from the fluro. Hopefully it's close enough. I don't want much stretch. That's one reason why I didn't put it under my HPS. I could have raised it up or lowerd my HPS but like I said, the fluro seems to be doing a great job on it. It's really showing good vegetation under it with very little stretch.

Guess I will find out in a couple of days if it will make it or not. I expect there to be some shock. I'm going to wait for the top couple of inches of soil to dry out before watering again.

On my next watering I think I may give it some Big Bloom. It's straight FFOF so it shouldn't need any veg nutes like GB for a little while. I just don't know really what's best for the next watering. Straight water or a BB/water mix.

Anyway that's where I stand. Hopefully it will make it. I'm just a little worried about loosing a couple of the roots. But I am pretty sure you can cut or loose some roots without the plant dying? We shall see.

To see pics of the transplant either click on the link in my other post or here - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

 

[Bandit420]

Hi Mad Dawg! I think I may be able to offer some help for you. I too grow WW in undiluted OF and I also have experience with the 150 hps.
The 5 gallon pot is probably a bit too big right now for the size of the plant but you can work thru it. You just have to be aware to not overwater because the plant does not yet have the root structure to suck out water from all areas of the large container. So for right now maybe go with 2-4 cups of water per watering until you're noticing vigorous growth.Then gradually give the plant more water per watering until your giving it nearly an entire gallon each watering.
With the plant being small and in a large container of very rich soil you really dont need any fertilizer for about three weeks. When the plant is in an aggressive growth pattern you can give it light feedings of Grow Big and Big Bloom to sustain the rapid growth.
From the looks of the pics you have a nice healthy seedling. Be patient and let it do it's thing. I know alot of growers can be impatient and will want to rush a plant by fertilizing too early or too much. Take it easy and let the plant go at it's own pace. Dont ever give it a large dose of nutes at one time hoping to jack up it's growth rate.
I and alot of other growers are here to help you be a successful grower so please feel free to ask any questions if you have any uncertainty on a procedure or technique.

BTW- Check out some of the LST threads. You may find that technique will work for you especially with the 150 HPS. I've been experimenting with it and that light at another grow and it doubled the yield on the two test plants.

 

[MAD DAWG]

Hi Mad Dawg! I think I may be able to offer some help for you. I too grow WW in undiluted OF and I also have experience with the 150 hps.
The 5 gallon pot is probably a bit too big right now for the size of the plant but you can work thru it. You just have to be aware to not overwater because the plant does not yet have the root structure to suck out water from all areas of the large container. So for right now maybe go with 2-4 cups of water per watering until you're noticing vigorous growth.Then gradually give the plant more water per watering until your giving it nearly an entire gallon each watering.
With the plant being small and in a large container of very rich soil you really dont need any fertilizer for about three weeks. When the plant is in an aggressive growth pattern you can give it light feedings of Grow Big and Big Bloom to sustain the rapid growth.
From the looks of the pics you have a nice healthy seedling. Be patient and let it do it's thing. I know alot of growers can be impatient and will want to rush a plant by fertilizing too early or too much. Take it easy and let the plant go at it's own pace. Don't ever give it a large dose of nutes at one time hoping to jack up it's growth rate.
I and alot of other growers are here to help you be a successful grower so please feel free to ask any questions if you have any uncertainty on a procedure or technique.

BTW- Check out some of the LST threads. You may find that technique will work for you especially with the 150 HPS. I've been experimenting with it and that light at another grow and it doubled the yield on the two test plants.

Thanks man for the advice and suggestions. I appreciate you taking your time to respond.

Yeah I agree a 5 gallon pot is a little too big. And the thing is, I have some 2 gallon pots that I could have used. But man, it didn't even cross my mind to transplant into the 2 gallon, and then up to the 5 gallon. I didn't no that it would be better to do more than one transplant. I was thinking that the less you transplant the better and less stress it is for the plant. I could go and take it out of the 5 gallon and transplant it into the 2 gallon. But then I'm starting to press my luck with it and putting that much more stress on it. So I guess I will just leave it alone. I think it will be ok and grow into the size of the pot. Like you said, I just need to take it easy on the watering. I guess chalk this up to a learning experience.

As for the nutes, yeah I know since it's in fresh 100% FFOF that it don't need any veg nutes yet. I had read that the Big Bloom is so light in NPK that it wouldn't hurt using it basically at any stage of the grow. But I will take your advice and hold off on it for a couple of weeks. The FFOF chart shows using it from seedling almost all the way through. I know not to go by the recommended doses on their chart. At least not at first and to start of 1/4 to 1/2 strength. I was just thinking that the Big Bloom was so light that it wouldn't hurt.

I only plan on vegging till it's around a 1 1/2 to 2ft tall. I have limited space and don't really want anything over 4 ft. I'm kind of guessing that with all the fresh FFOF in a 5 gallon pot, that by the time it reaches those height's, I may not even need to use Grow Big since I will start the flowering cycle as soon as it reaches one of those height's. I heard I might need a little for the N before flowering. But the FFOF but just be enough to do me through my whole veg stage.

I just checked in on it a little bit ago and it looks fine still. Course it's only been about 9 hrs. I finished it up around 2:30 last night.

Thanks again dude for the advice. It's greatly appreciated. If you have anymore please don't hesitate to let me know.

Have a good one.

 

[Bandit420]

yeah go ahead and leave the plant in the 5 gallon pot. It's probably already sent out a couple feeler roots to the perimeter of the pot and you dont want to break of any new roots on a seedling.
With the 150 hps it will do a real good job on a plant in the 12-18 inch height range and that's it. A 4 footer is'nt happening with that light. However you can get the yield of a 4 footer with the LST techniques. Since the 150 can only punch thru about 12 inches of canopy it is an ideal light for the LST delivering a good yield with dense buds.

 

[Droopy Dog]

It's looking good, but do you have any 1 gallon pots?

That plant is just waaaay over potted in a 5 gal and would be also in a 2 gallon. MJ does not like to be over potted.

Good rule of thumb is 1 gallon for every foot in height. I usually go from the real small seedling pots to 1qt, to 1 gallon, to 4 or 5 gallon.

You can do as you like, but in this small amount of time, the plants and the roots have done nothing that you will hurt by transplanting into a smaller container.

Soil grows aren't measured in hours, but days or weeks. Be patient.

I would put it in a 1 gallon, no nutes (FFOF, yes?), till it gets a foot or so tall (a month or so), and close to rootbound, THEN transplant into your 5 gallon bucket.

For the bucket, make sure you have good drainage holes drilled in the bottom and along the side close to the bottom and add some perlite and dolomite lime to the ffof.

But, however you want to play it. Experience is the best teacher and I was just trying to give you the benefit of mine.

Good Growing!

DD

 

[MAD DAWG]

It's looking good, but do you have any 1 gallon pots?

That plant is just waaaay over potted in a 5 gal and would be also in a 2 gallon. MJ does not like to be over potted.

Good rule of thumb is 1 gallon for every foot in height. I usually go from the real small seedling pots to 1qt, to 1 gallon, to 4 or 5 gallon.

You can do as you like, but in this small amount of time, the plants and the roots have done nothing that you will hurt by transplanting into a smaller container.

Soil grows aren't measured in hours, but days or weeks. Be patient.

I would put it in a 1 gallon, no nutes (FFOF, yes?), till it gets a foot or so tall (a month or so), and close to rootbound, THEN transplant into your 5 gallon bucket.

For the bucket, make sure you have good drainage holes drilled in the bottom and along the side close to the bottom and add some perlite and dolomite lime to the ffof.

But, however you want to play it. Experience is the best teacher and I was just trying to give you the benefit of mine.

Good Growing!

DD

Thanks Droopy Dog for your advice. No man, I don't have any 1 gallon pots. The smallest I got is a 2 gallon. I guess everyone has their own way of doing things as the poster before you said to just go ahead and leave it alone. So I am not too sure what I should do now at this point. And if I did transplant out of the 5 and into the 2, what would be a good way to store the soil that is already in the 5 gallon? Just leave it in there? I wouldn't want to throw it back in the bag cause it's a lot moister than what I have left in the bag. Leaving it in the pot it would be bone dry but I guess a little water would cure that.

Anyway just trying to get a grip on what the best thing would be to do. Yeah your right. Experience IS the best teacher and unfortunately making mistakes can be JUST as big a teacher.

So basically my only choices are leave it alone, or transplant it into a 2 gallon.

Also, it's been doing really good under my fluro. Should I keep it under the fluro or move it under my 150w HPS? My plan was to leave it under the fluro till it was 1ft or 1ft 1/2 or 2ft tall then move under the HPS for flowering. I can't go long into a veg cycle due to limited space.

 

[Droopy Dog]

LOL Yeah, most of my experience came from killing plants. Kill an orchid that cost well over $100 and whatever it was you did, you never do it again.

The 2 gallon wouldn't be much better than the 5, so go ahead and leave it in the 5.

When it does get larger, don't just stick it under the HPS though. Harden it off by putting it under there for longer periods each day. Like 1/2 hr, then 1 hr and so on. The HPS will be much more intense than the fluoros and you don't want to burn it.

Vegging a couple of weeks under the HPS (18/6), might also not be a bad idea. You'll be able to tell when you get there.

DD

 

[Bandit420]

When the plant looks like it wants more light you could try using both the flo and HPS at the same time. That would give you some intensity while still having some blue spectrum to keep the plant from stretching. When it comes time to flower you could just go with the HPS alone or change out the flo bulbs to some that are better for flowering.

 

[MAD DAWG]

The one thing about is I can't water enough to check the PH of my run off. I'll just have to make sure it's good when I water. So far using FFOF, when I have checked it before transplanting, the run off was basically the same as it was in my jug.

 

[MAD DAWG]

When the plant looks like it wants more light you could try using both the flo and HPS at the same time. That would give you some intensity while still having some blue spectrum to keep the plant from stretching. When it comes time to flower you could just go with the HPS alone or change out the flo bulbs to some that are better for flowering.

That's not a bad idea. I just may change out my fluro's to a 2700k or 3000k spectrum. I have a 4ft fixture so it will take some ingenuity on placing it. It would def help below the canopy and farther down below.