My Conundrum - Healthcare Workers Please Respond!

[CauseNEffect]

Happy Independence Day everyone!

I have browsed forums here for years, but I needed to finally join as a member and ask the 420Mag community for advice! I guess this is two people in a row that work in healthcare that need some help for upcoming drug screens... In particular I am looking for responses from others who work in healthcare to share their experiences and methods.

Here is the situation. My place of employment was just acquired by the largest hospital system in the area. At a meeting earlier this week we learned this, and learned we are all being "grandfathered" in to equivalent jobs within the new ownership. My employment "changes hands" at the end of August, but all the pre-employment conditions will need to be satisfied before that date. So far we have only heard this from our current management - we meet with the acquiring organizations HR next week. So I don't exactly have all the details yet, but I will have a drug screen coming up - and most likely within the next 4 weeks.

For those of you saying big-deal, no problem, please read on. I have to expect the test as early as next Wednesday/Thursday. If I don't I could get a rude surprise the first time we meet with their people. I could get a 24 or 48 hour notice then, or anytime between then and a few weeks before the ownership changes. If it comes next week I cannot pass by myself...

I am a regular smoker, but only moderate in use. However, I only smoke high potency herbs. I prefer to quit and detox when I am given enough notice, but I do not believe I have enough time left. This came as a surprise this week, and I have not had to drug test for 5 years... The last time I quit for 2 drug screens (work and school) was over 5 years ago. I went the natural route with extra niacin, drinking tons of water, exercising more it took me 10 WEEKS to clean out... Yes that is correct 10 WEEKS! I am 5'11'' and about 190, but I am not very muscular. I am basically a scrawny build with some extra pounds (fat) packed on... I have a fairly slow metabolism as well. I allowed myself 4-6 weeks to detox that last time, and purchased several single panel home-use THC testing kits. At 4 weeks I tested myself, and failed. Same result at 6 weeks. After that point every week I would test myself using my first-void urine (first urine of the day - most concentrated), and I continued to fail until the 10th week... I needed to ensure I passed so I was being the most cautious I could be. The 10th week was the deadline for the first drug screen, so I really ran up to the wire on that one.

When I tested the 10th week and saw no visibly detectable line on the panel with first-void urine I finally knew I was good. Had I failed that one, I would have had to go the ExtraClean route and binge on water the day I had to schedule the test and hope for the best (and no invalid results). After I passed at home I still maintained heavy water intake until the next morning. I woke up extra early to urinate and then binge water and continue urinating until the test. After 10 weeks I passed it. Then I still maintained a few more weeks until the second drug screen was completed. I wish I knew what my levels were before that detox, but I am not even included in the heaviest of smokers... just habitual.

Could I have passed it before 10 weeks using my method? Probably. But there was no way I was risking everything I had worked toward for years. In my current circumstance, Not only would I be denied this new position - I loose my job and benefits altogether...

I have never used synthetic urine before. SO I am basically trying to decide between that and who I could use for suitable substitution. I know that my test will check for urea, so I need to make sure I account for that going the synthetic route. Any past experiences or advice would help me try to decide which to attempt. I do conduct drug screens (as a collector) as part of my job, so I know what is expected of me to pass. But this hospital does check for synthetics (only urea as far as I know). Any advice?

For now I have to go but will post more later if I think of anything.

 

[BigSwole90]

Do you have access to someone clean that would pee for you in a bottle? That's the only way you could pass right now. I was in a predicament about 2 months ago where I had a job lined up that did pre employment and I KNEW I wouldn't pass, so I was ready to do a dirty deed. Ended up not even getting the job. It took me about 8 weeks to pass clean first void of morning. Funny thing is now the jobs I am getting offered aren't even testing me after all this time LOL better safe than sorry though! Please consider finding a friend or even possibly paying someone if it comes down to it. OR if that fails, Weed420 has mentioned a lot of times on here, they sell powdered urine that's actual real urine that would work. But me personally I would trust someones REAL urine first.

 

[Weed420]

Either someone elses clean urine or powdered urine is going to be your best bet. Just be sure to get a good bottle and a temp strip to stick on the side of it and then practice with ater first to keep the temp within range.

 

[CauseNEffect]

Well luckily at our 4th of July cookout I got to talking about this with some trusted family members, and yes - I do believe I have someone to rely on for substitution. Male, drug/pharmaceutical and nicotine free - but they now live about and hour and a half away these days. But that is okay, I am willing to put in the work lol.

I think this week I am going to send him a few drug screen collection kits in the mail. That way when I get notice I can call and have him collect samples. I will certainly still be instructing to collect midstream and not the first urine or the day. I want the samples to be fresh too, so told him keep it in the fridge a day or two until I can drive out there.

Hopefully that will satisfy both the drug and nicotine screening. I will just have to experiment with my delivery method while still keeping it in temperature range. Typically a 'split specimen' collection requires between 45-60 mL of urine or is rejected. I need to find a soft plastic bottle or something similar that i could possibly rubber-band a heat pack to the outside of. That or heat it, then immediately crotch it which will hopefully maintain body temperature. I can deal with it if it is slightly too warm at first (blow on it to cool it slightly) but too cold and I would have to count on someone forgetting to look at the temp strip or misreading it...

I think this will work. That way I don't have to worry about them discovering I have used a synthetic. Does anyone know what other tests may indicate a synthetic was used? I know the lab will test for urea (uric acid), so Quick Fix Canadian would be safe for that. Also I don't like the powdered versions - leaves to much up to the person who is relying on that to pass their test. Could easily be too concentrated or dilute if directions aren't carefully followed. I know about things like specific gravity, and have urinalysis strips at home to test it and pH, etc. but not everybody does. Also distilled water should always be used to reconstitute powdered urine. Technically I also have negative urinalysis control strips (powdered Bovine urine) at home, but again I am paranoid not only of mixing it correctly, but also that something may have been given to those cows that would be discoverable... I don't know enough about cow urine lol...

I am being way extra careful because of everything riding on this test for me. I cannot leave anything up to chance...

Thanks for your input so far!

 

[Weed420]

A 2 or 3 ounce bottle ot travel shampoo will usually work good. Just be sure to flush it out real good before you use. Try practicing with water in it first. I've never had to use one of the heat packs, I just store it next to my nuggets and it stays within range for a couple of hours. If it should get a little too cold, rub your thumb against your clothes for a couple of seconds and then hold your thumb against the temp strip. When it says 98 degrees step out of the stall and hand it to the tech.

 

[CauseNEffect]

Weed420, that is a great suggestion for warming up the temp strip. That would work perfectly as long as the sample isn't too far below temp, or else the strip would quickly change back... But that could definitely save somebody in a pinch. The funny thing is that the chain-of-custody forms actually ask the collector whether the temp strip was checked within 5 minutes. When you think about it 5 minutes is kind of a long time... A sample, especially a smaller one (near the minimum of 45-60 mL) will cool off quickly at room temperature.

Just having an inept tech could mean that temperature might be recorded out of acceptable range... Typically when I collect drug screens I expect a woman's sample to be slightly cooler anyway just because they typically set the cup down and have a little more to do to get decent after urinating than us men do. I expect mens samples to be in the 96-98F range, whereas females are usually 94-96F. If you can avoid it don't set your collection cup down on a cool surface like the back of the toilet, or put a couple folds of toilet paper under the collection cup as insulation - whether you are subbing or not!

On a somewhat related topic, I have clean urine! I just got a sample today quite unexpectedly. I also just found out that I likely have at least two weeks before the test. I think I might have to freeze it until then... According to LabCorp, a specimen is okay at room temp for up to 7 days - but that is after collection so nobody has to smell it (except the lab techs lol). I think 7-14 days is okay refrigerated. But I need to make sure freezing it won't 'damage' any molecules important to the test. I've never had to freeze a drug screen specimen before...

I also purchased Quick Fix Canadian 5.7-1 as a backup. I still prefer to use the real thing if possible, and I don't think 2 more weeks is going to long enough to use my own... At least I have it for a fallback plan. If they are keeping our lockers at work, I might have to keep that there in case of any future surprise randoms once the ownership changes hands. I thought about paying for my own drug test through LabCorp or Quest and using the QF Canadian. That way the results would only be released to me, and I would know if it passes their "stricter" testing protocols. Would cost money, but would also offer peace of mind. And of course if I decide to do that, I will share the results with the community here!

 

[ionize]

Either someone elses clean urine or powdered urine is going to be your best bet. Just be sure to get a good bottle and a temp strip to stick on the side of it and then practice with ater first to keep the temp within range.

powdered urine? i have actually never heard of that. makes sense that that i think about it. where in the world does one acquire powdered urine?

 

[BigSwole90]

Urine refrigerated is only good a couple days to maybe a week?. Frozen a year? Maybe more, never tried it but know someone who has. I saw a post on here about someone who freezes theirs when they are clean for any possible randoms and just thaws it the morning of the test. The recommendation they stated was that to be sure to shake it up a little so it doesn't look cloudy. Damn these stupid ass drug tests!!!

 

[Weed420]

Weed420, that is a great suggestion for warming up the temp strip. That would work perfectly as long as the sample isn't too far below temp, or else the strip would quickly change back... But that could definitely save somebody in a pinch. The funny thing is that the chain-of-custody forms actually ask the collector whether the temp strip was checked within 5 minutes. When you think about it 5 minutes is kind of a long time... A sample, especially a smaller one (near the minimum of 45-60 mL) will cool off quickly at room temperature.

Just having an inept tech could mean that temperature might be recorded out of acceptable range... Typically when I collect drug screens I expect a woman's sample to be slightly cooler anyway just because they typically set the cup down and have a little more to do to get decent after urinating than us men do. I expect mens samples to be in the 96-98F range, whereas females are usually 94-96F. If you can avoid it don't set your collection cup down on a cool surface like the back of the toilet, or put a couple folds of toilet paper under the collection cup as insulation - whether you are subbing or not!

On a somewhat related topic, I have clean urine! I just got a sample today quite unexpectedly. I also just found out that I likely have at least two weeks before the test. I think I might have to freeze it until then... According to LabCorp, a specimen is okay at room temp for up to 7 days - but that is after collection so nobody has to smell it (except the lab techs lol). I think 7-14 days is okay refrigerated. But I need to make sure freezing it won't 'damage' any molecules important to the test. I've never had to freeze a drug screen specimen before...

I also purchased Quick Fix Canadian 5.7-1 as a backup. I still prefer to use the real thing if possible, and I don't think 2 more weeks is going to long enough to use my own... At least I have it for a fallback plan. If they are keeping our lockers at work, I might have to keep that there in case of any future surprise randoms once the ownership changes hands. I thought about paying for my own drug test through LabCorp or Quest and using the QF Canadian. That way the results would only be released to me, and I would know if it passes their "stricter" testing protocols. Would cost money, but would also offer peace of mind. And of course if I decide to do that, I will share the results with the community here!

Usually when you store the bottle in your crotch it stays pretty close to 98 degrees all by itself so if you need to do the thumb trick it will take a little while for temp strip to lower below the cutoff range.
For randoms I keep the QuickFix in my pocket at all times just in case I get the call. For miy tests they're always at a lab a few miles away so I pop my QuickFix into one of those big trucker coffee cups and nuke it for 10 seconds to get it up to temp and then before I reach the lab I transfer it to my crotch. Just develop a system that works for your particular circumstances and practice. The 1st one is always scary, but after that you can be real smooth and no one suspects a thing.

 

[Weed420]

powdered urine? i have actually never heard of that. makes sense that that i think about it. where in the world does one acquire powdered urine?

Its a little tougher to come by. Some smoke or porn shops carry it but most carry just the standard liquid synthetic. If you're adventurous you can also make your own powdered urine from someone elses clean urine, but it will take some reading.

 

[Weed420]

Urine refrigerated is only good a couple days to maybe a week?. Frozen a year? Maybe more, never tried it but know someone who has. I saw a post on here about someone who freezes theirs when they are clean for any possible randoms and just thaws it the morning of the test. The recommendation they stated was that to be sure to shake it up a little so it doesn't look cloudy. Damn these stupid ass drug tests!!!

I don't recommend more than a couple of days in the freezer and then one day in the refrig to thaw out. Otherwise it could show up adulterated.

 

[CauseNEffect]

This is straight from LapCorp:

Drug Abuse Profile (Routine), Urine (Seven Drugs) (GC/MS Confirmation With Added Charge)

(would be the same protocol for any non-DOT 5,7,9, or 10 Panel)

Storage Instructions:

Maintain specimen at room temperature. If arrival extends beyond seven days, then refrigerate.


I do not have the LabCorp lab test book at home, but I do at work. This info is straight off their website under the Test Menu.

What that means is if the urine will take 7+ days to arrive at the lab for processing it MUST be refrigerated. That means a sample (sealed in the air-tight 30 mL tubes) is stable for up to 7 days at room temp. I believe the test book, which goes into more detail, recommends 7-14 days refrigerated. I will have to check the booklet the next day I work about freezing. I do not believe freezing will cause an adulterated sample beyond 14 days after collection. Freezing may destroy cells and proteins normally present, but these factors should not be important during drug testing. It certainly does not say DO NOT FREEZE.

Also using a "slow-thaw" method when you will need to use a frozen sample will prevent certain normally present molecules from precipitating (forming crystals). Straining the urine to remove normal sediments is probably not a good idea, as it will remove many particulates that contribute to overall pH and specific gravity. A better idea is to wait until the sample has thawed or gets back to room temp and shake the sample in a sealed container vigorously. Then the settled sediments will again be free-floating within the mixture that is urine, and it will have a more homogenous appearance. This should also be done quietly immediately before pouring your bottle into the collection cup. There will be no visible sediment and may also produce a bit of those characteristic bubbles to float on the top of the collection cup. The synthetics cannot reproduce that...

P.S> I also tested the thumb trick on an empty drug screen collection cup. Being empty it cooled off very quickly, but only took 20-30 seconds to get it to target temp. Be careful not to 'smudge' the temp strip with your thumb and destroy it. Some cups have the cheap papery strips rather than the liquid resistant plasticized versions (like what is on the QuickFix bottle). Especially if you have sweaty hands (because you are nervous) - the papery strips can be destroyed if water/liquid gets on them. Has caused issues trying to read the temp in the past, especially for women who usually end up getting some urine on the outside of the cup anyway...

 

[CauseNEffect]

I just found this invaluable info. Thanks UNC! Entitled "Schwab Adulteration Specimen Validity Checks"

Basically says that temperature is still the #1 validity check.

After that are pH, specific gravity, and creatinine - in that order. Also important is to not use any products that add gluteraldehyde or nitrites to the urine (UrinAid or Whizzies/Klear). Internal adulteration is an almost guaranteed FAIL - including dilution methods...

External adulteration (adding anything to urine after you pee) is also an almost guaranteed FAIL - "instrument readings may alert the operator that the sample is faulty or has been tampered with."

Interesting that they have the least to say about substitution methods. As long as you use urine (not diet Mountain Dew, water with food coloring, beer, tea, apple juice, and cologne) you should be good!

Fun Facts:

-pH: Must be between 4.5 - 8. More important to be alkaline to pass (higher pH value). pH becomes more alkaline anyway after urine sits for prolonged time (for you subbers). More acidic urine throws up a red-flag. In my experience I have really never seen urine with pH lower than 5.0... Only serious disease like metabolic acidosis or poisoning would cause pH below 4.5 or 5.0 in normal urine, and these conditions mean your body can no longer regulate it's own pH... These are life-threatening conditions.

-Specific Gravity: Range should be 1.003 - 1.040. In my experience typically urine will be in the 1.010 - 1.020 range. Being on the higher side is ambiguous for drug testing results - "The laboratory is not able to discern intent when a higher than normal specific gravity is observed." However, a specific gravity lower than 1.003 is basically just water and will result in FAILURE (keep this in mind if you are considering an internal dilution method), especially if any other factors also test low.

-Creatinine: Typical urine creatinine concentrations are around 150mg/dl. A specimen reading less than 20 mg/dl, may be considered adulterated or diluted, but a low creatinine reading does not constitute proof that the specimen donor diluted the specimen to beat the test." Physiological factors as well as diet or disease can cause creatinine levels to vary. However, for drug testing purposes anything lower than 20 mg/dl throws up a red-flag, but alone will not constitute a failure. Other markers of dilution would also have to be present.


So what does all this mean? Pretty simply, don't rely on ingesting any products or adding any products to a urine sample for drug testing. Also use caution not to take natural dilution methods to dangerous levels - not only will you fail, you might die! If you cannot pass an at home test the day before using your own urine with only moderate dilution (just being well-hydrated at a normal level) and catching urine mid-flow then you must consider subbing with real or synthetic/reconstituted urine. Using a synthetic with uric acid (must be added with a few days of using the sample) is an additional safety measure, whether you live in one of those states or not. Most of the time, the major lab's specimens are shipped out of your state anyway... AND ALWAYS MAKE SURE THE TEMPERATURE IS IN RANGE WHEN YOU HAND THAT CUP OVER!

Weed420 please take this precious info and run with it! Spread the word!

 

[Weed420]

Good post CauseNeffect.
When using dilution to help beat a drug test its important that you don't drink a lot of fluids days before the test, it just makes a failure by negative dilute more of a possibility.
Just limit it to 36 ounces of a sports drink the morning of the test.
The detox kits can help a little because they keep the ph, creatine and specific gravity levels more balanced. But the problem is the creatine in these drinks won't help for the creatine tests because it takes about 3 days for the body to process the creatine and then show up in your urine.
Thats why I recommend that if you're going to try and cget clean naturally to pass the test then do it this way.
Exercise and stay hydrated
Eat a high fiber diet with possibly adding some metamucil to help keep the bowels moving.
3 days before the test switch to a red meat high fat diet and quit exercising
Drink 36 ounces of gatorade the morning of the test
Pee 3 or 4 times before the test
When taking the test
Pee a little in the toilet first
Pee 2 ounces in the collection cup
Pee the rest in the toilet.

You can add a B vitamin to this in the morning to help color the urine if you want. Color has always been a ridiculous reason to use as a failure for a drug test. Have even seen a couple of techs fail a smaple because it didn't stink enough.Idiots.lol

And yes there is no substance you can take that will screen your drug use. There use to be ways but they now check for all those.

We will have to keep up to date and be ready to adapt as testing procedures change and they will certainly change over the next few years. The good thing is that there should start being some legal protections for recreational using employees. Drug testing has always been unconstitutional unless you're suspected of a crime but no laws ever under go a constitutional review process so we are stuck with these kinds of unconstitutional laws until such time as someone can take them to the Supreme Court and get the laws over turned, which takes decades.