I'm gonna believe whatever I want, so don't try and confuse me with the facts!
November's Marijuana Legalization Initiative: Imperfect, But Worthy Of Your Vote
- Thread starter Ganjarden
- Start date
I'm gonna believe whatever I want, so don't try and confuse me with the facts!
Can't come up with a rebutle so through out insults and speculation on the whole... gotcha brother... sorry I missed that.
I am not a sheep... I am thinking about this and have talked to both sides... not just sit around and be an armchair quarterback.
So with that said... I do not see how giving prohibitionists power is going to solve anything... it just will not. Also to the hard core concervitive... who does not smoke or drink... how are you going to change their mind???? your not... I even know some liberals who are in the same mindset... so again... they only way to change it... is through MMJ... also that only hope at the federal level is mmj which is getting there... via the Veterans Administrations new policy... sorry but I do not see prop19 as being able to address the nay sayers... if anything... I think it will hinder it.
I am not a sheep... I am thinking about this and have talked to both sides... not just sit around and be an armchair quarterback.
So with that said... I do not see how giving prohibitionists power is going to solve anything... it just will not. Also to the hard core concervitive... who does not smoke or drink... how are you going to change their mind???? your not... I even know some liberals who are in the same mindset... so again... they only way to change it... is through MMJ... also that only hope at the federal level is mmj which is getting there... via the Veterans Administrations new policy... sorry but I do not see prop19 as being able to address the nay sayers... if anything... I think it will hinder it.
Everyone says pass 19 and other states will follow because California leads the way. So over the span of 20 years, why haven't all 50 states legalized marijuana for medicinal use?
What makes everyone so confident that the entire union will follow suit? Most of you guys for prop 19 don't even live in our state! It won't be your neighborhoods the Feds descend upon to enforce Federal law which by the way they will as Washington has stated should 19 pass. It won't be your government funded programs such as after school activities, museums or other public services that will be cut because of lack of federal funding. Again, a tactic this administration has gone on record to support. It won't be you harassed by local law enforcement because you smoked in your front porch or back porch or inside your own home because those places share the same "space" as a minor who lives next door or down the street or across town.
But it will be you sitting on the couch, stoned out of your mind as you watch on CNN as the Federal Government bitch slaps California like a red-headed stepchild. Once they come to enforce FEDERAL LAW, every single infrastructure pertaining to marijuana in California becomes fair game for a good ol' fashion raid. That includes medical marijuana because under Federal law, that too is still illegal.
Now my question to you Californians is this: Since the our Government has agreed to look the other way when it comes to medical Marijuana but promises to punish us should we vote to legalize for recreational use, why in the world would you?
What makes everyone so confident that the entire union will follow suit? Most of you guys for prop 19 don't even live in our state! It won't be your neighborhoods the Feds descend upon to enforce Federal law which by the way they will as Washington has stated should 19 pass. It won't be your government funded programs such as after school activities, museums or other public services that will be cut because of lack of federal funding. Again, a tactic this administration has gone on record to support. It won't be you harassed by local law enforcement because you smoked in your front porch or back porch or inside your own home because those places share the same "space" as a minor who lives next door or down the street or across town.
But it will be you sitting on the couch, stoned out of your mind as you watch on CNN as the Federal Government bitch slaps California like a red-headed stepchild. Once they come to enforce FEDERAL LAW, every single infrastructure pertaining to marijuana in California becomes fair game for a good ol' fashion raid. That includes medical marijuana because under Federal law, that too is still illegal.
Now my question to you Californians is this: Since the our Government has agreed to look the other way when it comes to medical Marijuana but promises to punish us should we vote to legalize for recreational use, why in the world would you?
In the USA, the first restrictions on the sale of cannabis came in 1906 and in 1937 the FD Roosevelt administration created the Marihuana(sic) Tax Act, in effect making the possession of cannabis illegal by way of declaring an unpayable tax on it.
It was then completely illegal (in the main) for, what, 59 years until the good people of California passed Proposition 215 in 1996? To me, having read somewhat about the speed of legal evolution in this country (especially when it is to the good), I find it amazing that in such a short time, the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes has been legalized (or at least declared a valid defense) in I think 14 or 15 states and the District of Columbia. That's over 20% of the population of adults in this country, you know.
Illegal for 59 years up until California started the ball rolling in 1996. One wonders what the legal situation will look like in 2055.
When they said, "Change doesn't happen overnight, you know," the phrase could have been tailor-made for the American legal system. Just because a thing happens slowly is NO reason to refuse to start the process.
Very good. But what people do not understand... you can not change peoples minds over night as well. What changed my mind was my need for mmj... not rec use. I was a hardcore concervitive. So if you want to win the hearts and minds of the people... mmj is the key... key to getting it rescheduled and key in winning the hard core concervitive base.
Just a thought people.
Also... another thing... when you have people in this state who are ellected officials not upholding the state law, over riding the will of the people and state and city officials trying enforce federal law... there is no movement.
When we start holding them financially responsible and put them out of office... then they will get the hint that they work for us the people!
Just a thought people.
Also... another thing... when you have people in this state who are ellected officials not upholding the state law, over riding the will of the people and state and city officials trying enforce federal law... there is no movement.
When we start holding them financially responsible and put them out of office... then they will get the hint that they work for us the people!
Nice to meet you, lol - I was once a hardcore stoner. That was before I really realized that cannabis has far more use (benefit) as a medicine and aid to good health in general than as an "intoxicant." I stopped selling (years back) when that happened. Perhaps someday we'll "meet in the middle," so to speak.
I would like to respect your views even though I'm sure they differ in many ways from mine as we're both thinking individuals. Did you know that many of the ingredients in "drug cannabis" that provide benefits can also be found in "industrial" hemp? Have you ever tried consuming it? Or crossing it with a "drug cannabis" strain? It might provide the benefit you need without giving you one of those "buzz" things.
As a so-called intoxicant (or recreational substance - and THAT is what this Proposition is about: Cannabis for recreational use), no one in their right mind having a grasp of the facts can argue the fact that it is far less harmful than alcohol or any other substance that comes to mind.
Yes, I agree that the MMJ movement (which I also support) can be a help in getting cannabis removed from the list of Schedule I Narcotics. It could cause it to be placed into category II or possibly III, instead (as both are concerned with substances that have an acceptable medical use).
Personally, I want to see it REMOVED from the schedule altogether as it should have never been placed on it, does NOT qualify to be there as it does not meet ANY of the three requirements, and was only placed there for reasons having to do with power and money (which often walk hand-in-hand, it turns out).
Also, one of the reasons that I have for wanting it removed is... Let's face it, there ARE dangerous substances listed on that schedule. And the inclusion of cannabis on it has caused a lot of people (including the young) to give little concern to the consequences of using those substances. "After all, cannabis is on it, all my friends use it, and IT'S never killed anyone." I heard that from a friend's daughter last year after she'd got in trouble for consuming something else, BtW - it's not something that I made up out of whole cloth. To many, the whole thing has become a joke because cannabis is on it. That's not just wrong, it's dangerously harmful.
In the USA, the first restrictions on the sale of cannabis came in 1906 and in 1937 the FD Roosevelt administration created the Marihuana(sic) Tax Act, in effect making the possession of cannabis illegal by way of declaring an unpayable tax on it.
It was then completely illegal (in the main) for, what, 59 years until the good people of California passed Proposition 215 in 1996? To me, having read somewhat about the speed of legal evolution in this country (especially when it is to the good), I find it amazing that in such a short time, the use of cannabis for medicinal purposes has been legalized (or at least declared a valid defense) in I think 14 or 15 states and the District of Columbia. That's over 20% of the population of adults in this country, you know.
Illegal for 59 years up until California started the ball rolling in 1996. One wonders what the legal situation will look like in 2055.
When they said, "Change doesn't happen overnight, you know," the phrase could have been tailor-made for the American legal system. Just because a thing happens slowly is NO reason to refuse to start the process.
Forgive me but I do not share your enthusiasm about the speed of medicinal marijuana coming into its own in this country. The days of FDR and Obama are quite different and let us not forget that there was a state in the union that had already legalized marijuana for recreational use only to to turn 180 after 12 years IIRC. Should we give it another try? Yes! But prop 19 is too vague and gives the Government too much authority on who and when and how the culture of cannabis is practiced not to mention the looming threat of Federal action against California. Like I stated before, I am looking at the big picture here. Should prop 19 pass its likely that cannabis will be prohibited all together here in California because even medicinal use is illegal according to Federal law.
Now, you seem to be enthused at medicinal marijuana making it to 20% of the US population over the past 20 years. I think that it has moved too slowly. Should the Feds intercede in California after prop 19 passes then I don't see what will stop them in striking down all medicinal laws as well and making all of our hard work on this issue moot.
They're letting us have medical marijuana and reform its laws as we see fit. Why do we need to get greedy and risk it all?
No matter where you stand on this issue, we should all follow this example and vote.
Please just get out and vote YES on 19. The media is bashing it all over the TV and press. Rays Dad from Cat. City in Southern California. 
I fully agree that it is vague in its language. In some respects, I believe that was purposeful in order to attempt to capture a portion of the "non-consuming" vote. After all, I do not know if the majority of voting Californians are consumers. If not, theirs are needed votes. And it's probably exponentially more difficult to talk the average non-consumer into voting for recreational use than it was to talk them into voting for medicinal use. (There are many medicines that I don't take, but I accept the fact that they do help others, kind of thing.) It also includes language that would seem to encourage (positive) changes in the future. IDK.
An action that would be an exercise of a power that they do NOT legitimately have, and one that they have only been able to assume due to the apathy of the American public. Members of that government do things that We the People do not agree with (this being just one example of many), some portion of us decides to voice our opinions through writing those members, public speaking, and voting. But the portion that seems to care one way or the other about such actions seems to be small and shrinking. We (meaning the population eligible to vote in general) also have incredibly short attention-spans. We can be up in arms about something this year and if we do not find satisfaction, next year or the year after or ten years in the future we have forgotten the fight.
Will the fed come down on California like you and many others fear? It could happen, granted. I cannot help but wonder if it either will not or if it will take a "wait and see" attitude in hopes that events take place (suitably publicized and demonized by the media) that it can point to - kind of a "national emergency, clear & public danger" kind of scenario. I very much fear that such a thing could come about. I even worry that it will use its agents to precipitate such a situation, actually.
If the fed does immediately descend on the state like a herd of ravening beasts, it could very well provoke a Constitutional crisis. It Does Not Want That. As I've stated - and as you are no doubt aware - this would only be one of MANY examples of the fed overstepping its bounds. A student of history knows that governments are very fragile things and that ours is a very young one, relatively speaking. Were I in their position, I would have to seriously wonder whether or not provoking such a crisis would be worth it. After all, things like the prohibition of cannabis and others seem to have served their purpose - many of those citizens who would lead the fight against the general injustice that is the fed have been repeatedly beaten down, slandered, and belittled. Coupled with the fact that the actual amount of people that vote compared to those who would be eligible is deplorable - it should be approaching 100%! - and that so many of those who do can be easily led around by the ring in their nose or snowballed... Some would say that at this point, such things that have been designed to split We the People apart and hurt those who would make a difference are just no longer necessary. IDK. But a serious federal action could open a can of worms that the fed undoubtedly feels is best left not only unopened - but buried as well.
So am I. And since this website is concerned with cannabis, I try to limit my discussions (+/-) to that subject. But the big picture is about far more than "just" cannabis.
It IS, of course... possible. All things are when people assume that those in authority are exercising a valid authority.
But imagine for a moment that that unconscionable thing happens.
Just how do you think that's going to go over with We the People?
Don't get me wrong - I agree with you there. But I also realize that time in government terms has more in common with geological clocks than with the one hanging on my living room wall.
Yes, we're plodding through thick, wet sand.
But after each step... We take another.
As always, the statements in my posts are largely statements of my opinions. But I'd be surprised if I couldn't find "a couple" of people that agree with me in large part.
As to Proposition 19... We'll see soon one way or the other.
If it does fail both sides need to pull together and hold these ellected officials accountable for the continued harrassment and violation of state law. Only then can this movement have victory. I just could not vote yes as it would give the power to the very ones who seek to rid this state of marijuana as it stands now. Let us rise up and take back this state and send a message that we are the people and they work for us.
Well, the jig is up and Prop 19 did not pass. I do hope that someday there will be a piece of legislation presented to us concerning the legalization of cannabis that we all can one day stand firm and unified behind. Until then my good peers of the plant, my buddies of bud, I wish you good night and good luck.
SnowBender
New Member
Glad to see that at least my county supported it.
Better luck next time.
Unfortunately any prop that would have a better chance of passing next time will be way more restrictive for personal use, and way more slanted in the corpo's favor than 19 was....
Better luck next time.
Unfortunately any prop that would have a better chance of passing next time will be way more restrictive for personal use, and way more slanted in the corpo's favor than 19 was....
Yeah, that was about the best shot I could imagine - and I hope I'm completely wrong - at giving consumers a livable thing that was still supportable by those who aren't consumers.
But hey - as a few have pointed out in this and other threads, the only thing that can happen to those walking the streets with up to an ounce is a $100 fine. People not all being poor like me, that wouldn't have to come out of their food budgets for three weeks, I'm sure.
The only thing is... What about the people who grow that up to an ounce for them?
Won't even think about the continuing existence of all the "probable cause" things that would have been put paid to by Prop19 or of the fact that it would have done the same to a lot of drug tests.
SnowBender
New Member
Just proves that the Faux Newz tactics of truthiness works. Spread enough FUD and you can obscure anything positive.
Not really sure how a state can decrim one oz for possession but keep growing even one tiny clone a felony. (that counts towards the thee strikes 'law')
The hemp industry lost out big time on this prop's defeat.
Not really sure how a state can decrim one oz for possession but keep growing even one tiny clone a felony. (that counts towards the thee strikes 'law')
The hemp industry lost out big time on this prop's defeat.
MasterLynxx
New Member
I personally live in a state it is heinous to be a drug dealer, or drug king-pin. No matter how you spit it, sounds to me like someones a "POT PIMP", and I disagree with that.
I say NO. Local Union negotiations never take decades. Sport strikes seem to be resolved hastily. In my state, when you get arrested, you get 3 phases of plea's before they start thinking of taking you to trial.
If you want the bill to be what you want, never settle for less. We have been on the sh*t end of the stick for decades, and have shown our willingness to negotiate and be passive enough. It's time to stand up for our rights!!! It is medicine first!!! I think to many children have suffered due to this plants traits!
"...It's people that ruin people, not the medication they take..."
How can we as the greatest species on this planet allow a plant be a source of war?
I am exhausted, and this is a highly conversed post. I look forward to being apart of this conversation!!! Just not right this moment...
I say NO. Local Union negotiations never take decades. Sport strikes seem to be resolved hastily. In my state, when you get arrested, you get 3 phases of plea's before they start thinking of taking you to trial.
If you want the bill to be what you want, never settle for less. We have been on the sh*t end of the stick for decades, and have shown our willingness to negotiate and be passive enough. It's time to stand up for our rights!!! It is medicine first!!! I think to many children have suffered due to this plants traits!
"...It's people that ruin people, not the medication they take..."
How can we as the greatest species on this planet allow a plant be a source of war?
I am exhausted, and this is a highly conversed post. I look forward to being apart of this conversation!!! Just not right this moment...
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