Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

[Growing247]

Obama won't interfere with Cannabis law for the same reason he won't mess with gun laws. If it is politically unpopular in DC he doesn't do it. On the good side however, he did appoint Eric Holder as Attorney General (highest law enforcement official in the country). He has ended the DEA raids for the most part on dispensaries. The ONLY reason he has done this, in my opinion, is to avoid the political backfire this would cause when you see the DEA rounding up patients and destroying medicinal marijuana dispensaries (like what was going on under Bush). In the USA, it seems like policy on marijuana is in sort of a legal limbo at this point. Changing with whatever administration is in power at the particular time. When did the USA turn into a Banana Republic? All together unsatisfactory. Instead of respecting the STATES DECISION to support their medicinal patients, the federal Govt. sits there and pouts (like a little kid who doesn't get their way) and says WELL ITS STILL NOT LEGAL BY FEDERAL STANDARDS AND WE TRUMP STATE LAW NA NA NA NA NA. This is altogether an unsatisfactory situation and it cannot last. Why is it so hard for them to admit they are wrong, change the law and get on with life?

 

[Jim Finnel]

I was attacked personally and you say nothing I defend myself and get yelled at.

Where is the open mind here?

Where is the freedom of speech and ideas?

Where were you attacked personally? If you were and I'm not seeing it please let me know and I'll deal with it in an appropriate way > via pm and not in an open thread. I yelled at no one, reading my tone of voice is entirely in the mind of the beholder. My posted advisement was made generally and directed at no one individually. Sometimes I will post that way not because of whats been said but because of the direction things seem to be headed. I've been doing this for quite awhile and you sorta get a feel for things.



That being said, here is the offical 420 Magazine response to the free speech question:

With all respect, you're confusing freedom of speech with private property rights.

Freedom of speech protects you from the government. It's a key tenet of our constitutional republic; given that you can't escape the government's reach and it's the citizens only means of preventing tyranny.

We are a private company and have the right to set our own rules.

You can stay or go at your whim (unlike the government).

What if you owned a business, someone comes in and starts telling everyone how much better your competitor next door is compared to you? Would you let him stand there and run off your customers? Or would you show him the door?

You'd show him the door because he is NOT entitled to completely free speech while in your business - only outside the door can he speak freely without violating your right to control your own property. In the same way, this site is 420 Magazine's property, and 420 Magazine has the right to control what happens here. We can't stop people from saying whatever they like outside the door, but while in here, our rules rule.

 

[Grandpappy Sr]

Re: Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

Ok, the topic is not Communisim, Independents, Democrats or Republicans unless it is related to the use of Cannabis. Please stay on topic or take it to our off topics forum. Lets also keep our conversation civil. There is no need to get personal. I really don't want to start editing posts and sending pm's. I prefer to spend my time in positive ways. Thanks Friends.

AMEN! What did I learn from this thread, I learned there are alot of pissed off people here at 420 that are quick to turn around and start attacking eachother. What if our collective time came to voice our mm opinion on a national stage? Is this how we would act and what would those (non mm patient) voters think of us and how would they vote based on our responce.

 

[Jim Finnel]

If you take a close look Grandpappy you'll see that many of those posting in this thread are relatively new to 420 Magazine. 99.9% of our members never have a cross word. We likle to think of ourselves as a family here and you know what they say about families, don't discuss religion or politics

 

[Thanatokos]

Re: Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

I'm with you guys -- we have a common cause.

 

[Odin]

Re: Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

yawn... Why is there complaining we are making headway MM is now legal in more than TWO HANDFULS of states slow and steady progress is the key. THIS IS NOT OBAMA'S 'WAR' he did not start nor cause this, so stop the bullshit propaganda. Why has everyone got to put the blame on the black guy he inherited this stupid shit NOT caused it.

STOP DRINKING THE HATERADE PEOPLE.

Maybe he didnt cause it- but he didnt inherit it and he sure as hell isnt doing a damn thing to help the situation. Its not hating- its the truth. I still dont see why people are kissing his ass and putting him up on a pedestal. What has he REALLY done??

It's because racism is ass backward in America these days. Can't criticize a black man or you are a racist. Its ironic really. MLK would be ashamed of the army of Obama ass-kissers who value the color of his skin more than the color of his integrity.

I haven't seen much good come out of Obama at all. He is just another puppet, half black or not, thats all he is. Right after he got into office, maybe a month or less after stating he was going to end Federal enforcement of Federal law on the State level, the DEA raided half a dozen + clubs in LA.

I gave him a chance, but all he has done is live in the shadow of George Bush. At least people were willing to criticize and question him and his agendas.

Obama won't interfere with Cannabis law for the same reason he won't mess with gun laws. If it is politically unpopular in DC he doesn't do it. On the good side however, he did appoint Eric Holder as Attorney General (highest law enforcement official in the country). He has ended the DEA raids for the most part on dispensaries. The ONLY reason he has done this, in my opinion, is to avoid the political backfire this would cause when you see the DEA rounding up patients and destroying medicinal marijuana dispensaries (like what was going on under Bush). In the USA, it seems like policy on marijuana is in sort of a legal limbo at this point. Changing with whatever administration is in power at the particular time. When did the USA turn into a Banana Republic? All together unsatisfactory. Instead of respecting the STATES DECISION to support their medicinal patients, the federal Govt. sits there and pouts (like a little kid who doesn't get their way) and says WELL ITS STILL NOT LEGAL BY FEDERAL STANDARDS AND WE TRUMP STATE LAW NA NA NA NA NA. This is altogether an unsatisfactory situation and it cannot last. Why is it so hard for them to admit they are wrong, change the law and get on with life?

Uhh... I fail to see how apointing Eric Holder (epic douchebag) was in any way, shape, or form a good thing. Don't you remember when the .Gov actually thought there was a chance Prop 19 would pass? What was the first thing out of Holder's mouth....?

"Go fuck yourself California, we are just going to step up our efforts in CA because Marijuana is still illegal under Federal law."

Please explain what he has done that makes him any more redeemable than Harry Anslinger. Also, not sure where you are getting your information, but there is no "legal limbo", and they have FAR from ended DEA raids on MMJ patients and clubs.

The Feds just had a huge operation going on in Northern California called "Operation Cash Crop". It was a massive joint effort by the IRS, IRS Criminal Investigation, US DEA, CA Justice Department, Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, Nevada, El Dorado and Placer County Sheriffs and some organization that I can't recall that I had never even heard of until this operation went down. They called it the "Mountain Valley Marijuana Eradication Team" or something evil sounding like that. Just another .Gov branch our tax dollars can go towards accomplishing nothing.

If anything, the Federal presence in California is higher than it ever has been. The reason they won't "admit" they are wrong, is because its too profitable for them to allow it to become legal. 100 years of lies and deception are finally catching up to them, but they are far from ready to back down.

 

[Thanatokos]

Re: Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

I agree, Odin, that it is a waste of time and resources to try to convince the federal government to move on this issue through reason. Reason does not motivate most members of Congress and the President is not on our side.

Continue to educate the public (the ones that sit on the fence and will listen to reason, that is). And hopefully those who have something to gain financially from the end of prohibition will lobby (bribe) officials to move in this direction. Continue to support the efforts of anti-prohibition movements, especially LEAP, who the popular paradigm has no defense against. Challenge the laws locally to the extent we are able. Realize that many who cultivate and sell the herb also are not on our side, for they also stand to lose money over an end to prohibition. Let's keep it all going. Momentum is on our side. Get all this in the media when possible, because decades of silence got us nowhere. Speak out here, on the internet generally, and other places. Remember that hostility -- though well placed -- against those who have not yet seen the light is not a strategy for persuasion. And so on.

And thanks to people like Jim Behr, tirelessly reporting for us the evils of prohibition and our victories against that evil.

 

[Odin]

Re: Okay, If No One Else Is Willing, I'll Address The Elephant In The Room

I agree, Odin, that it is a waste of time and resources to try to convince the federal government to move on this issue through reason. Reason does not motivate most members of Congress and the President is not on our side.

Continue to educate the public (the ones that sit on the fence and will listen to reason, that is). And hopefully those who have something to gain financially from the end of prohibition will lobby (bribe) officials to move in this direction. Continue to support the efforts of anti-prohibition movements, especially LEAP, who the popular paradigm has no defense against. Challenge the laws locally to the extent we are able. Realize that many who cultivate and sell the herb also are not on our side, for they also stand to lose money over an end to prohibition. Let's keep it all going. Momentum is on our side. Get all this in the media when possible, because decades of silence got us nowhere. Speak out here, on the internet generally, and other places. Remember that hostility -- though well placed -- against those who have not yet seen the light is not a strategy for persuasion. And so on.

And thanks to people like Jim Behr, tirelessly reporting for us the evils of prohibition and our victories against that evil.

Exactly. The first step towards a better policy is educating those around us, even if it is just sharing news articles or informing them one piece of information at a time.

 

[Jim Finnel]

Not everyone who is in the legalization movement actually would gain from legalization. There are some organizations and individuals who shall remain un-named would actually lose financially if Cannabis were actually legalized, their jobs depend upon prohibition. Think about it.