White dots on hydroton rocks on waterfarms

[420goat]

I have been a medical patient and grower for 10 years now and I have never seen anything like this nor my colleagues who are just as experienced as i. I have microscopic white dots covered all over my hydroton rocks that are in my waterfarm system. I can't post a pic of them bc they are so small but they almost look like salt build up from the nutrients but the dots are perfectly spaced on the rocks and when you stare at them, some of them are moving ever so slowly. Therefore, it is NOT salt build-up; some of the dots are eggs and the other (moving) dots are either the layers or the new hatchies.
They are obviously feeding on my roots because when you pull the top bucket out of bottom reservoir and you touch the roots, they desintegrate. They're not on the stalk, nor are they on the leaves either. The leaves on the plants that have the worst infestation in the rocks are now turning yellow and dropping off the plant. I'm only 4 weeks into flower and usually NEVER get yellow leaf loss and only some plants (the worst infested) are turning yellow. I have used Go Nats, Neem Oil, and Azamax for the bugs, and SM-90, Hygrozome, House&Garden Roots Stimulator, and Great White for my roots. Normally my roots are gleeming white with these additives, leading me to further believe the bugs (white dots) are feeding on my roots and nothing else.
My vege room does not have any bugs at all and 2 plants I recently moved into my flower room (w/bugs), 2-3 days later, started showing the dots too! The bugs are obviously traveling via the reservoir and the additives I have used in my reservoir to kill them are not working!
PLEASE HELP!!! Thx all!

 

[ilynnboy]

sounds like scale type insects(white'slow moving,sucking the life out of them)if it is scale scrap them(almost impossible to rid them)

 

[StinkFinger]

How long (how many cycles) have you been using these Hydrotron rocks?

How do you clean and prepare the Hydrotron between cycles?

S.F

 

[ilynnboy]

upon further thought it sounds like scale but they prefer sap not roots, so I may be way off here. Let us know what you come up with.Doesn't Cali have an agricultural extension office? If so and your legal(medical) take your problems there , they may have some insight that we don't.

 

[420goat]

Definitely not scale. The dots are white, not black like scale, and they are the smaller than a regular size grain of salt or sand. I really wish i had a microscope. thx tho. Let me know if you find out anything else.

 

[420goat]

I bleach my rock every cycle and only re-use about a third of the rock each time anyway. My vege room has the same re-used rock and there are no bugs there. Definitely not the rock.

And as far as know there is no agricultuaral hotline in Cali.

Thx guys. Keep'em coming.

At this point, unless we figure it out, I'm gonna finish this cycle and start completely over in bloom room!

There's not a single hydroponic or commercial gardening store I can find in So. Cal that has ever seen my problem too!...

 

[StinkFinger]

Good info.

Okay, you know it's definitely living, then why not try something broad spectrum that's safe for the plants?

WISE Colloidal Bio-Insect Control uses unique colloidal technology to deliver potent control of mosquitoes, aphids, flies, fleas, gnats, no-see-ums, mites, spiders, fruit flies, ants, chiggers, ticks, silverfish, crickets, moths, chinch bugs, palmetto bugs, lygus and more, including larval, pupae and adult stages, while posing no threat to humans or the flora and fauna.

Obviously you are the only one that knows to ride it out, or try something to keep your grow growing.

Just a suggestion.

SF

 

[420goat]

Interesting SF,
Sounds good but is it safe to use in the reservoir of a hydroponic system? It sounds as if it is OK since it is made from plant abstracts but in the application directions, it doesn't say anything about watering it in to a medium or adding it to hydro. I sent them an e-mail asking if its OK or not since they're closed now and I'll give them a call tomorrow too. Thx and I'll let ya know! Keep the suggestions comin!

 

[StinkFinger]

Excellent. Please let us know what your response is from the mfg. It helps future members to show patronage to the mfg, if they deserve it.

Of course we'll be interested in your outcome and what you determine, nevertheless.

SF

 

[420goat]

So i talked to mfg and they say it works fine in hydro and recommends 1oz/gal normally and 2-3oz when bad infestation. He also says the killing agents brake down rather quickly and need to be replenished every 3-4 days or every reservoir change(once/wk). I am gonna order some and I'll get back and let ya know how it went.

fyi- i googled the stuff, but haven't had time to shop around yet, and the first price I saw was $111 for 1gallon!!! OMG!!!

 

[StinkFinger]

fyi- i googled the stuff, but haven't had time to shop around yet, and the first price I saw was $111 for 1gallon!!! OMG!!!

Sounds like it may be a winner. FYI. Looks like you can buy a quart for about $33.00 directly from their online store.

Colloidal Insect Control - Agriculture

Have a great weekend.

SF

 

[420goat]

Thx SF. I know Azitrol doesn't work overnite or in a couple of dayz but recently re-tried Azitrol at a much higher dosage by soaking pots for less than a minute each and so far no progress!! :|

I am gonna order the Collidial stuff and on Monday I think I have a spot that will put the little creeps under a microscope and diagnose the little bitches for me! haha Then hopefully we will know how to kill them!

I b ntouch!

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Would H2O2 be a solution? I have no idea how to apply it for that application, but just thinking of a broad spectrum killer...

 

[StinkFinger]

They are obviously feeding on my roots because when you pull the top bucket out of bottom reservoir and you touch the roots, they desintegrate.

.......
House&Garden Roots Stimulator, and Great White for my roots. Normally my roots are gleeming white with these additives, leading me to further believe the bugs (white dots) are feeding on my roots and nothing else.

I just re-read your 1st post, and more and more this is sounding like an Root Aphid specifically that feeds on your roots. It also sounds like your using beneficial's from your "soup" recipe above.

As a suggestion, I'd put an email in to House and Garden, possibly also Great White.

If you need to kill out everything, the peroxide is probably the way to go, but to keep things brewing, that Wise product might still be your best bet.

Also, as far as how they got there, do you start from seeds or clones, and if clones where are they acquired, that's most likely the main culprit as the source.

For what its worth.

SF

 

[StinkFinger]

Would H2O2 be a solution? I have no idea how to apply it for that application, but just thinking of a broad spectrum killer...

For future reference.

1-2ml per gallon of FOOD GRADE Hydrogen Peroxide to start. To water, PH Adjusted.

(Non food grade, like 3% found at your grocery store contain fillers and other chemicals, which could be damaging to your plants, and yourself)

------------
SF

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

For future reference.

1-2ml per gallon of FOOD GRADE Hydrogen Peroxide to start. To water, PH Adjusted.

(Non food grade, like 3% found at your grocery store contain fillers and other chemicals, which could be damaging to your plants, and yourself)

------------
SF

Only 2ml per gallon of 30% would be enough to kill root aphids?

 

[StinkFinger]

Only 2ml per gallon of 30% would be enough to kill root aphids?

Gardner. I'm of the same thoughts as you with regards to how effective (if at all) a treatment of H2O2 would be to tackle root aphids. My knowledge is only related to the general application of H2O2 for say, treating Algae.

My understanding is it will eliminate most everything, including any beneficials that may have been added.

SF

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Gardner. I'm of the same thoughts as you with regards to how effective (if at all) a treatment of H2O2 would be to tackle root aphids. My knowledge is only related to the general application of H2O2 for say, treating Algae.

My understanding is it will eliminate most everything, including any beneficials that may have been added.

SF

I hear you. I'm wondering what the max the roots could stand would be... I'm a chemical hydro grower, so I don't want anything alive but the roots. I know 30% will burn skin... so what could be applied, then washed off, killing surface pests, but not the root?

 

[420goat]

Thx guys! SF, NICE EYE!! You alright w/me! hahaha Plants came from a club in Whittier. Got 9 of em. Don't know if that's where I got aphids cuz only 1 plant got them and it didn't get them till 2 months after I got the plants. But anyway, the plants were all feeding off same reservoir, w/weekly changes, for about 2 mnths when one plant got BLACK ROOT APHIDS that I sprayed and soaked in a mix of GoNats and Garden Safe 3-1 fungicide/pesticide (70% hydro somethin extract from Neem) for about a minute or 2 about 3-4 wks ago and it raticated the problem on that plant. I was extremely worried in submerging the plant in the Garden Safe 3-1 Neem extract stuff since it doesn't say anything about doing so on the bottle and the Garden Safe mfg sales staff are just "sales staff". They don't know diddly!!...Anyway, since Neem is an "oil", I thought it would coat the roots which would then enable the plant to feed, but the plant didn't show any shock, but now kind a thinkin about it, it's the smallest plant, buuut by only about 4-6"... I sprayed the rest of the plants root zones with that mix just as a precaution, but did not soak them. I used so much Neem, i thought that's what suffucated my roots and caused them to start to die and disintegrate before I noticed my infestation of white dots...I have frivously been checking that plant and the rest of the plants practically everyday since and so far, so good as far as root aphids go.
I noticed the white dots on that plant about a 2 wks before i saw the root aphids!!! I didnt think anything of it (the dots) cuz they were so small and i had never seen them before and then a wk or 2 later is when I saw more white dots and noticed a couple of black dots at the base of the stalk. When i looked closer, I saw the base of the stalk was covered in a blanket of black aphids below rock line and when i pulled the top bucket up to checkout the roots, the roots were covered too. So I sprayed them and eventually soaked that bucket in a strong Neem/GoNats mix (1oz Neem and 3oz GoNats/gallon) and killed them.
Soooooooooooo I'm not thinking those "black" root aphids came from these microscopic "white" dots. These dots look like the tiniest speck a dust and the aphids are about an 1/8th of an inch!?...idk... When i saw the white dots then, I thought i saw the aphids on the rocks mfg'ing them, but now I see absolutely NO aphids and the dots are out of control!...The rotten roots look like they are moving when you look at them cuz the dots are crawling on top of each other there are so many of them with NOT 1 aphid... I really thought those original white dots i saw were the eggs to those aphids but when i'm seeing billions and billions aannnnnnnnndd billions of these white dots covered on my roots now and not 1 aphid, I was thinking they were something else?...idk... Tell me what ya think of all this new info! I'm still gonna try to find a lab to identify it. KIT

ps - Don't know anything about H2O2... Don't see how it would kill these guys when Azitrol/max, Neem, and GoNats hasn't?.....But like I said, I don't know it's capablities cuz I've never used it. I thought all it was was an Oxygenator for the water and i think i heard something like it acts as a liquid CO2?....

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

H2O2 is just water with an extra oxygen atom, which will break off an oxidize whatever it touches, killing all small life forms like bacteria and root rot, and at higher concentrations like 30% will burn skin, so it would certainly kill bugs.

I've poured 3% directly on roots without killing them, so a 1/10 solution would at least be worth a try.