A top nutrient study - Which is the best? Produces most?

[greensmokez]

Great information... Thanks for taking your time to post this for us all to read and learn from. Thanks again.

 

[Green Grower]

What an incredible amount of information, exactly what I was looking for. Pretty impressive. Using FF, so tired of the mixing, feeling my results were lackluster, considering switching to something different. Learned many new things especially below ground. Thanks so much - Shine On Brah!

 

[brittiem]

So there is a company, Kelp4less, with comparable quality stuff to Advanced Nutrients, and they have seriously awesome prices and free shipping anywhere in the states. The guys over there will work with you to form a nutrient schedule (I love that), and they have suuuuuch good quality. They have packs, too, separated into grow and bloom packs, and early-, mid- and late- bloom packs.

 

[Blis84]

Great job ledtester, I have a bio canna question, I recently bought the vega, flora, rhizotonic, cannazyme and bio boost. But the rhizotonic and cannazyme have red caps and the others have brown, i guess there is a bio rhizotonic does that mean the rhizotonic isn't organic, I trid to contact bio canna but no want got back to me

 

[sparty]

So there is a company, Kelp4less, with comparable quality stuff to Advanced Nutrients, and they have seriously awesome prices and free shipping anywhere in the states. The guys over there will work with you to form a nutrient schedule (I love that), and they have suuuuuch good quality. They have packs, too, separated into grow and bloom packs, and early-, mid- and late- bloom packs.

I too have used Kelp4less with great success. I've been following their advanced feed chart and had my best harvest ever!

That said you have to be careful as some of their products they recommend on their feed chart are blends of more common nutrients/additives. Things like "ripe blend" and "extreme blend"are just mixes of fulvic, humic and kelp. If your not careful you can double dip if you use these products.

Be aware that they do not have the best price on some things. I've had better luck, price wise, buying some mineral salts from customhydronutrients.com MPK, MAP and AgSil16 to name a few.

I've also made some changes to their feed schedule. I do not use Kelp4less's silica, instead I use AgSil16 (l love it) and I get my amino acids from mbferts.com. I've called and written kelp4less and they are helpful to a point. They are not in a "legal" state and when on the phone asked me to refer to cannabis as "mint" or "hybrid tomatoes". That's a bit old school and makes the point they know nothing about my product so I've taken any of their advice with a grain of salt as I'm not growing mint or tomatoes.

After talking with them, I sent them a tissue analysis of my crop, I was seeing some deficiency's in the leaves. I never heard anything back from kelp4less! I would have thought they would have loved that info. Just more evidence that they are commodity brokers and not serious about cannabis.

I' still do some business with them, but like everyone, they're in it for the money. So caveat emptor, do your own research and proceed cautiously!

 

[joaltman88]

Wow, that is a lot to read. I thought ht best plant nutrients out there were Canna Boost. Gravity is a really good one. But they unfortunately got banned so I have since switched to Golden Tree by Humboldts Secret. I think it is better than the others. Anyone else used it?

 

[stumpjumper]

Piss on all them poisons and gimmicks. I've tried 3 parts.. 4 parts.. 8 parts lol... If you want beautiful healthy buds Keep it simple. I now use Veg+Bloom 1 part from start to finish and have had magnificent results, don't even need calmag or silica with that stuff.. I've also had similar results just using GH Maxibloom start to finish but the Veg+bloom is the bees knees.

 

[basementjungl]

For those that don't know, a "poison" or "gimmick" is any growing method you don't personally approve of, for any reason.

Don't like the shape of the bottle? It's a gimmick.
Your plants got burned? It's poison.

Whatever you do, make absolutely certain to completely disregard any opinion that disagrees with yours, especially if it is backed up with results that directly prove you wrong. You can't be wrong. You grow awesome plants the only possible way to grow them. Everyone else that claims to grow using different nutrients, techniques, or what have you - they're clearly only copying your methods secretly and claiming to be using other products.

 

[stumpjumper]

For those that don't know, a "poison" or "gimmick" is any growing method you don't personally approve of, for any reason.

Don't like the shape of the bottle? It's a gimmick.
Your plants got burned? It's poison.

Whatever you do, make absolutely certain to completely disregard any opinion that disagrees with yours, especially if it is backed up with results that directly prove you wrong. You can't be wrong. You grow awesome plants the only possible way to grow them. Everyone else that claims to grow using different nutrients, techniques, or what have you - they're clearly only copying your methods secretly and claiming to be using other products.

Do you know what you are putting in your plants? Must be good shit if the shape of the bottle is cool or has a bad ass logo on it?

I grow for patients who have enough issues without me adding some extra heavy metals or paclobutrazol to their diet. Maybe you should research what you are using instead of instigating me for pointing out facts? Thats my point, thanks.

Of course most merc growers dont give two shits what they give their customers.

 

[toketone]

That was good my 3rd time reading this in the last yr an a half

 

[organics]

I am considering switching to EJ after reading this review after working with bio canna for awhile. The one thing I am concerned about is the ph. I know technically speaking that you don't have to adjust ph for organics, but it just freaks me out feeding my plants really low ph, I run soil, and I've always heard the ph for nutrients for soil should be on the higher side, 6.3+. I know that EJ is supposed to be airrated for 24-48 hours, and that is supposed to raise the ph, as long as you aren't using RO water. However, no one ever says how big your air pump must be in comparison to reservoir size. Air pumps are measured in LPM or liters per minute, or alternatively, gpm, gallons per minute. Anyway, I'm wondering if extra air would make the nutrient solution rise in ph more rapidly? And if so, how much air is necessary? I'm also interested in brewing my own compost teas, using earth worm castings and other organic ingredients. How big does my air pump need to be for that? I have two 30 gallon resevoirs. I've heard that generally speaking, most airpumps are pretty weak and don't deliver enough air to really get the microbial life going, but aside from that general info, I haven't heard of any definite baselines for gpm per gallon of nutrient solution/ACT. Also, the author of the nutrient study said he like to feed his EJ at like 80 degrees, maybe it was 85. That seems really high to me. I've always heard that 70 degrees is good for ACT as well as nutrient solution. I would really like to hear from people with experience using earth juice, in particular, how much you airrate it, and if you adjust the ph. All comments welcome. Thanks.

 

[hydroherb]

Do you know what you are putting in your plants? Must be good shit if the shape of the bottle is cool or has a bad ass logo on it?

I grow for patients who have enough issues without me adding some extra heavy metals or paclobutrazol to their diet. Maybe you should research what you are using instead of instigating me for pointing out facts? Thats my point, thanks.

Of course most merc growers dont give two shits what they give their customers.

I see what you mean, basementj.

 

[Nockestona]

The Brix info is VERY interesting.....thanks!

After compiling the above products and developing each feeding schedule I used the above additives within each 12 plant per schedule set-up. As an example, a consistent, predetermined amount of Hygrozyme was added to 1 plant in each cycle - in the Advanced Nutrient case I removed the use of Sensizyme. This gave me results even among the 2 enzyme formulas in that test. 1 plant was also giving Cal/Mag +, 1 Safergro Calcium and so on. This gave me an immense amount of feedback but also resulted in many "head to head" additive comparisons. I could not only determine nutrient/ingredient effectiveness but additives turned out to be the most apparent differences in the test. Above all else I felt my conclusions would lead to a better understanding through recordable growth of not only which nutes but which ingredients resulted in more vigorous growth per what stage the plant was in. Generally speaking, I have a relatively non-scientific approach to growing, although I'm an avid researcher and meticulous when it comes to recording results my priorities tend to be instinctively straight forward in reference to what things I decided to monitor and record. Much of my data is based on actual numbers, however, I also had a number of items I recording on a opinion based numerical rating - basically 1 through 10 - 10 being the best. These numbers would be averaged out in the final stages to determine some overall conclusions. More importantly, they were also studied to specifically determine what grew the best plants in which stage. In addition to numbers I also included any pertinent notes in my weekly observations. The following measurements and ratings were taken every 4 to 5 days through-out the plants life.


Measurements:

Main stock circumference
Overall width
Plant overall weight (prior to feeding/watering)
Weight in lost foliage (if any)
Tallest major bud site
Shortest major bud site (this would help in determining growth consistency)
Weight in clippings and fan leaves at harvest
Weight in final product

Ratings:

Resin production
Crystallization
Color and/or bud color
Over-all structure (remained the same through-out)
Vigor
Bud odor
Deficiencies
Toxicities
Root structure rating
Aesthetics of final product
Taste of final product
Smoke rating
Price per gram produced


Each nute program was broken into an 80 day cycle resulting in roughly 5 to 6 "vegetative" applications and 8 to 9 "flowering" applications. The results are not easy as simply spitting out numbers. This entire process was designed to create the best compiled nute program through analyzing the ingredient effectiveness at specific growth stages. As my schedules were similar in overall nutrient intensity I expected similar eventual results and that's exactly what they did. Remember it's important to develop a sense of the total nutes applied per cycle and how you choose to give these nute's to the plant. Taking pieces from each schedule and plugging them into the growth stage that they excelled at will lead to over fertilization and throw the nute "curve" off. As complicated as this process was, I new deciding on a basic and effective cycle was the ultimate goal.

Before reading the observations it's important to understand some general organic microbial life. Microbes make up the majority of soil life in nature. Bacteria, fungus, nematodes, algie and many other micro organisms live in soil. In these tests I was primarily concerned with Bacteria and fungus. Bacteria are usually single celled creatures that prefer generally higher pH environments. There are literally billions and billions of them, some thrive in low oxygen soil (anaerobic) and others need air to properly thrive (aerobic). Bacteria need water to live producing a slime of sorts around them that binds the substrate together and preserves some moisture required for it's survival. They are extremely good at decomposing organic matter by producing enzymes that break down nutrients. The enzymatically digested nutrients are then absorbed back into the bacteria. Fungus is similar in that it also uses enzymes to decompose matter but has some unique characteristics. First, it produces Chitin. This is the same biological substance used in crab and various sea shells and the exoskeletons of many insects. Chitin gives fungus stiffer and a more resistant cellular make-up than bacteria. These fungus cells combine into chains and have passageways between them. This allows fungus to transport fluids from one end of it's chain to the other. I'm sure many of you have heard of Mycorrhizal fungi for example, which encircles and sometimes attaches to root systems searching for food and water on it's own by expanding beyond the plants regular capacity, then transports the nutrients back to the roots. Root's will exchange these nutrients for carbohydrate rich fluids called Exudate's. These exudate's are imperative to producing chitin. The important feature here is that the plant chooses when to exchange the nutrients hence giving a healthy plant more natural control over it's own growth. It also means that this fungus will become an extension of root systems leading to more efficient nutrient absorption. When fungus and bacteria absorb a nutrient, that nutrient becomes locked inside them. They don't release this nutrient until exudate exchange or death. This means nutrients have more of a lasting and natural effect creating a humus rich, nutrient available medium. There are books based on this subject so I won't get to deep into it, but I feel promoting a strong microbial life in organic applications is my primary priority. I'll frequently refer to this microbial life, explaining it further. Plants are not totally depended on these methods of nutrient absorption. They can produce they're own enzymes also, just not nearly as efficiently.

I also think understanding " Brix " content can have benefits in comparative tests. Brix is a measure of a combination of various amino acids, oils, proteins, flavonoids, minerals and primarily sugars/carbohydrates within a plant's tissue. Many vineyards and fruit farmers use Brix levels to determine flavor and nutrition values in grapes and fruit. Brix levels can expose some important features in regards to marijuana. It is a great way to monitor your plants health measured using a refractometer. Much in the same way light beams change direction under water a refractometer measures the change in light direction sent through a sample of extracted fluid from the plant. The larger the direction change, the higher the Brix. Basically, as nutrient absorption occurs (specifically carbs and sugars), measured Brix levels rise. If the appropriate ingredient is poorly absorbed Brix levels will remain the same or lower. With that theory in mind we can better determine how well different nutrients react with Marijuana. Interestingly, organic mediums and organic solubles produce much larger Brix numbers. Plants with high Brix numbers are healthy, more pest resistant and full of nutritional value. Essentially the healthier plant is naturally more resistant to pathogens such as insect infestation. Plant eating insects lack the internal organs to properly digest certain sugars (specifically a liver). Undigested sugars will eventually ferment into alcohol killing the insect or disrupting it's digestive system. High Brix typically implies high sugar content hence are generally more unattractive to these bugs. Weak, infested or diseased plants always have lower Brix numbers. High Brix will improve taste, resin production, odor and potency. I feel it's an underestimated value in regards to plant management. If your interested look into Dr. Reams.

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[Qanzilla]

First off, thank you ledtester for collecting this enormous amount of data and compiling it in a very easy to understand way. You are the man!!

I have been fed up with Fox farm and this information has confirmed what I already feared. I have been using fox farm's FULL product line for 2 grows. They do great in veg but 2 weeks into flower they end up yellowing and then curling and turning brown, losing lots of leaves.

This latest cycle, I flushed with sledgehammer on first day of flower. The plants looked like they were dying within a week, and I'm still recovering 3 weeks later. I contacted Fox Farm and they told me they have no interest in helping someone grow illegal substances. Even though I'm a medical marijuana patient, they said "It's still illegal according to federal law".

OK. Whatever, I get it. But still,
I had to stop all nutes for 2 weeks, and then flush with regular old water. Only then did my ladies improve.

Anyways, after reading all of this info, I went and ordered Earth Juice's line, along with the extras you use. I can't wait to try them!!
I noticed EJ has a new "Sweet and heavy" line out now, has anyone tried it? I also didn't see any molasses in your write up. I bought some EJ High Brix Molasses with my order, and was wondering if anyone uses that too?

Anyways, thanks again and major props to you, ledtester!!!

 

[fish4250]

First off, thank you ledtester for collecting this enormous amount of data and compiling it in a very easy to understand way. You are the man!!

I have been fed up with Fox farm and this information has confirmed what I already feared. I have been using fox farm's FULL product line for 2 grows. They do great in veg but 2 weeks into flower they end up yellowing and then curling and turning brown, losing lots of leaves.

This latest cycle, I flushed with sledgehammer on first day of flower. The plants looked like they were dying within a week, and I'm still recovering 3 weeks later. I contacted Fox Farm and they told me they have no interest in helping someone grow illegal substances. Even though I'm a medical marijuana patient, they said "It's still illegal according to federal law".

OK. Whatever, I get it. But still,
I had to stop all nutes for 2 weeks, and then flush with regular old water. Only then did my ladies improve.

Anyways, after reading all of this info, I went and ordered Earth Juice's line, along with the extras you use. I can't wait to try them!!
I noticed EJ has a new "Sweet and heavy" line out now, has anyone tried it? I also didn't see any molasses in your write up. I bought some EJ High Brix Molasses with my order, and was wondering if anyone uses that too?

Anyways, thanks again and major props to you, ledtester!!!

Ive been using fox farm for 3yrs and nothing but problems they even sent me sledge hammer and 2 flowering foods and still PROBLEMS

 

[HappyGrass]

I had that same problem a few times myself, but I added some light Grow Big throughout the first 4-6 weeks(depending on length of flowering period) of flowering to add extra N while gradually bringing it down until it's no longer needed. I'd watch your PPM though, from my experience Grow Big can burn your plants easily... This worked for me, but I'm looking forward to trying EJ on my next grow. (I also use Rhizotonic - Veg & beg of flower, Cal mag with R/O water, and Cannazime - Flower)

 

[HappyGrass]

First off, thank you ledtester for collecting this enormous amount of data and compiling it in a very easy to understand way. You are the man!!

I have been fed up with Fox farm and this information has confirmed what I already feared. I have been using fox farm's FULL product line for 2 grows. They do great in veg but 2 weeks into flower they end up yellowing and then curling and turning brown, losing lots of leaves.

This latest cycle, I flushed with sledgehammer on first day of flower. The plants looked like they were dying within a week, and I'm still recovering 3 weeks later. I contacted Fox Farm and they told me they have no interest in helping someone grow illegal substances. Even though I'm a medical marijuana patient, they said "It's still illegal according to federal law".

OK. Whatever, I get it. But still,
I had to stop all nutes for 2 weeks, and then flush with regular old water. Only then did my ladies improve.

Anyways, after reading all of this info, I went and ordered Earth Juice's line, along with the extras you use. I can't wait to try them!!
I noticed EJ has a new "Sweet and heavy" line out now, has anyone tried it? I also didn't see any molasses in your write up. I bought some EJ High Brix Molasses with my order, and was wondering if anyone uses that too?

Anyways, thanks again and major props to you, ledtester!!!

I had that same problem a few times myself, but I added some light Grow Big throughout the first 4-6 weeks(depending on length of flowering period) of flowering to add extra N while gradually bringing it down until it's no longer needed. I'd watch your PPM though, from my experience Grow Big can burn your plants easily... This worked for me, but I'm looking forward to trying EJ on my next grow. (I also use Rhizotonic - Veg & beg of flower, Cal mag with R/O water, and Cannazime - Flower)

 

[wizgrow]

Well Damn..... as a former Technical Project Manager all I can say is that this is some "Outstanding Work" - congrats and thank you.

As an aging bodybuilder and still part-time personal trainer I have to wonder if Cannabis is really so much more complex than the human body. From this perspective I can tell you that 80%+ of the supplements people use are garbage and or simply not needed IMHO. Now -Keeping in mind that I have little to no experience with growing, but having done a lot of research recently I can't help but wonder if this is the same...........

So I am wondering what types of results you might have seen by keeping it real simple using a Jack's/Pete's 3/2 formula all the way through?

From what i have seen/read there are a lot of great growers getting just as good results if not better at 10 to 20 cents on the dollar of what some of these products costs.

Insight appreciated.....
WG

 

[jamesleemc]

Hello all, i am using FF right now and really dont care to much for it, so i have decided to run my own tests, and will post what im going to use in two weeks, i have to make room first.....

 

[Fidel Castro]

Nice Work...