Advice on LED light upgrade

J

JMD

420 Member
Hi,

This is my first grow and initially looking on light wattage found this led lamp which sounded OK for my grow area (it seemed to be a sort of viparspectra clone)

My thinking was: I have a 80x80X160cm - more or less 0.64 square meters / 7 square foot. calculating between 50-70w per sq feet I got to between 350-500w... but it ends up the real out put of the lamp is 240w only and I am afraid of being short now...

The plants are growing fine so far, but still on week 2 so probably not very demanding either

As options to supplement it thought on the options below

1) Double down on the 600w niello as price is good (another 600w would cost me 160 euros and with the 2 would have good physical coverage as well as they combined would cover 60x60 cm of the 80x80 so probably more even light across all tent). this would end in 480 real watts

2) Add 2 supplement 100w COB leds full spectrum as the one below (100w drawn from wall each), total would be 460-500w

3) Add 4 supplementary red lights to be used during flowering only as the one below or CFLs to end up with more or less 80-100w more of red (not sure what ratios between colors would this plus niello lamp end up with, nor if beneficial)

I am in Europe, so not that many options as in the US... and a bit worried as flowering will start soon and not sure if I have the proper set up

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!

JMD
 
I was in a similar situation with an 1800W equivalent COB fixture. It drew 300W from the wall, and the drivers were only 84% efficient leaving 252W for the lights and cooling fans.

The COBs in the lights you mention seem to be very like the ones in mine. I'd leave them alone. Check out our sponsor Timber, they have a good product line. I have to leave, but will get back to you later.
 
Hi @JMD and welcome to 420 :passitleft:


All the things you mention are of very low quality, it will work, but it's not more energy efficient than HID and won't last long.

With the shape of the niello, getting another would end up in an uneven footprint, and some of the extra light is wasted.

It's a bit hard to work around the lamp you have, but if you're willing to DIY, 4x F-series 560mm strips around your lamp would make that niello look like the supplemental lighting in the tent :)

You could also get 4 of the single COB lamps from Kingbrite on Alibaba, don't hold me up on it but I think it would be around 250 euro with shipping and tax, these will also make your niello their bitch.

Another suggestion is to put the niello away and keep it as a back up unit, or use it for a new veg setup etc. and get a 400w HPS with digital ballast and cooltube. Many UK and German grow shops online have them as kits.




Old Salt said:
Check out our sponsor Timber, they have a good product line
Click to expand...


@TimberGrowLights have some nice products and is IMO the only LED sponsor here with proper tech, and one of many good choices for people living in the US (and maybe Canada).
Last time I checked Timber's shipping prices was very much not EU friendly, but it's been a while and might have changed.

So a little shoutout to companies in the US, give us outlanders flatrate international shipping or a EU warehouse/distributor and get more customers :)
 
I have several LED lights that are "knock-off" and will be replacing soon. They have done "ok" growing but every harvest I've had had been light & fluffy. I've exhausted all other options, so I will finally be adding an HID fixture.

Just my 2 cents...

Hope to you have better success than I did with these type of LED panels.

-P
 
Another option if you are at all handy would be DIY. I went with kingbriteled on alibaba for COB kits, and RapidLed for some supplemental far red. There are several threads dealing with DIY LED lighting. Check out "Build Your Own LED Grow Light" started by PurpleGunRack, if you are at all interested in that route.
 
dannnnng man, u could of gotten 12 solstrips for $240 and had probably better coverage. of course, more wiring, but yiks, thats some cash.

Get those pics up bro when its done, and congrates,
 
Hi, thanks all for the good advice!!

I would prefer to stick to led for 2 reasons, 1 the heat and more complicated set up for HID in terms of ventilation and second it would take too much vertical space...

Will look over the strips and kingbrite on alibaba, thanks @PurpleGunRack

One last question, what is that separates a crap / good / excellent led? Have read its a lot on the quality of leds, but the niello lamp for example have bridgelux leds which supposedly are good no?

Thanks again for all advice!!
 
JMD said:
Hi, thanks all for the good advice!!

One last question, what is that separates a crap / good / excellent led? Have read its a lot on the quality of leds, but the niello lamp for example have bridgelux leds which supposedly are good no?

Thanks again for all advice!!
Click to expand...

I'll weigh in on the last question, mainly because of my unique view of LEDs and quality.

There are a few things that separate good LEDs systems from each other. The first item is the driver. The more efficient the driver is, the more power you are going to get out of the LED for the relative heat. More light/less heat. An efficient driver will cost more, so the product will have a higher price.

The second is the quality of how the product is built. The solder joints will be more uniform, and less likely to have a cold solder joint that will cause a problem after time.

The third is the quality of the actual LED components, the LED emitters themselves. Bigger name-brand LEDs have a better life because of less contamination during the manufacturing process. The cleaner and more precise the LED emitters are built, the longer they will stay bright, the more hours they will last and usually the more power they can handle. All LEDs will dim. It is the nature of the components. Most will be at 80% of original brightness in 7-10 years. Cheap LED emitters will dim faster. That means it will take more power to put out the amount of light as they did when new.

Will you have the same light in 7-10 years? I don't know.....but it is a factor you should consider. But remember lighting technology is moving as fast as computers did in the 2k time frame. Things are changing every day. The light you purchase today may be obsolete in 5 years.

This is just my opinion......
 
JMD said:
Will look over the strips and kingbrite on alibaba, thanks @PurpleGunRack

One last question, what is that separates a crap / good / excellent led? Have read its a lot on the quality of leds, but the niello lamp for example have bridgelux leds which supposedly are good no?
Click to expand...

Even the top LED brands (BridgeLux, Citizen, CREE, and Samsung) have different quality levels, and revisions to their products. Some manufacturers use names close to name brands to increase sales for example Epiled and Epistar. Epistar is affiliated with CREE/Osram, while folks here have warned members against the Epiled based products.

When you look at the specifications for the COB or LED, the first things to note are its efficiacy, color temperature, and CRI. The higher efficiacy or the lumens/watt rating the better. You are looking for values above 120. Beyond that it becomes a pay me now or pay me later. You can pay $35 for a CREE product, while the equivalent Citizen product is close to $11. At the same light output the total cost of ownership over 50,000 hrs is very close. For flowering you want a 2700 - 3500 color temp. For veg you want something more blue in it, therefore a higher color temperature, about 4000K - 5000K. You can use the 3500K - 4500K for both, but it's a bit of a trade-off. The CRI, or color rendering index is a measure of how closely the light from the LED is to that produced by the sun. You probably want 80 or 90 CRI, which is pretty close to pure sunshine.
 
Thanks guys, again! Really appreciated!

Have being looking on what is available for me based on the posts above and found 3 types, all with the chip cxb3590 (this is supposed to be the best one, no?). Then another set of questions came through... :(

1) Is the glass lens or the metal cone focus better? Imagine one is to focus the other to spread the light... in this case was thinking on placing one 100w on each side of the niello lamp. In this case do you think it would be better to focus the light right below with the cone as the niello probably covering the part right below it?

2) Is there a difference from having 2 chips and 1 drive (as most DIY kits) or the individual chips with integrated drive like the pic below (which would make it more expensive vs the DIY but easier to manage for me as I have the niello lamp in the middle)

s-l500.jpg


3) What color would be better for me 3000K or 3500K? My main need is for flowering I guess, but could use more light for vegetation as well. Would a more warm color drive too sparse nodes? A bit confused with color temp and wave size as those are all full spectrum supposedly...

Any help more than welcomed!
 
JMD said:
Thanks guys, again! Really appreciated!

Have being looking on what is available for me based on the posts above and found 3 types, all with the chip cxb3590 (this is supposed to be the best one, no?). Then another set of questions came through... :(

1) Is the glass lens or the metal cone focus better? Imagine one is to focus the other to spread the light... in this case was thinking on placing one 100w on each side of the niello lamp. In this case do you think it would be better to focus the light right below with the cone as the niello probably covering the part right below it?

2) Is there a difference from having 2 chips and 1 drive (as most DIY kits) or the individual chips with integrated drive like the pic below (which would make it more expensive vs the DIY but easier to manage for me as I have the niello lamp in the middle)

s-l500.jpg


3) What color would be better for me 3000K or 3500K? My main need is for flowering I guess, but could use more light for vegetation as well. Would a more warm color drive too sparse nodes? A bit confused with color temp and wave size as those are all full spectrum supposedly...

Any help more than welcomed!
Click to expand...

As I have been told by people who have done more research on spectrum there is little difference, so you can go with 3000k. It has slightly more red which is great for flowering (but still works for veg fine). I'm an electronics guy more than a lighting guy.

I'm not a huge fan of any lens the light has to pass through. Like water, a lens will filter part of the power/spectrum. But (there is always a but), the lens will help spread out the light to a useable area. I prefer reflector lenses, personally.

Not a big difference in the integrated driver or external driver other than the ability to move the driver for summer to remove the heat from the tent/room. Drivers usually create as much or more heat than the LED emitters.
 
If you use it for veg, then the 3500K. For flowering only the 3000K would be best.

Many will claim that the cxb3590 is better, but I think the BridgeLux Vero, and Citizen CLU048 COBs are close to it. The difference is that you pay about $35 USD for the cxb3590, and only $11 for the Citizen. The Citizen will put out a little more heat, and draws a little more power than the CREE. Over its 50,000 hr lifespan the two cost about the same (purchase cost + electricity @ 25¢ / Kwh).
 
Here is what 4 luminus Cobs have done so far. I use 2pc 350090CRIand 2pc 4000K80CRI, running at 200 watts, out of possible 340 per my set-up. I turn the 3500 all the way up, (1400ma) and then add the 4000K to make up the 200watts. I had it up higher, but as you can see, it cooked my FireOG. lol, Probably have baked beans.

These are 33 days FROM SEED, I start on 12/12. Already nice flowers, and they arent really even under but 2 of the lights. cant wait till this big 10gallon of seeds is done, should be a few more days, just finishing the flush. Then i can get a true feeling for them . They are 25 inches tall.
A12-12--day33-Sun1.png

A12-12--day33-Sun1.png


A12-12--day33-Sun2.png

A12-12--day33-Sun2.png


A12-12--day33-Sun3.png

A12-12--day33-Sun3.png

 
and, would like to point out, the far back is under the 4000K, and the front is under the 3500K, as with the buds, the first is 4000K and the 2nd is 3500K, same seed batch, different type of growth, or different pheno, i dont know, lol.. There is a center 1, and its smaller then the others.
 
MrFortwenty said:
There's another company selling their own boards with the 288 Samsung s6 diodes, but cheaper than HLG or Growerslights. I just bought their 240W kit last week, and as of today they're still on sale. Not a sponsor here so I wont mention the name, although he said he's working on that.
Click to expand...
Does this company start with an "A"?
 

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