Bagseed Grow - TD Hydro under LED's

[Tead]

The Story continues...

Left the PH at 5.9 last night at 7pm(ish), and this morning at 7am, the PH is at 7.1.
I added 1 tsp PH down and considered going back to bed.
It would initially look like the system flush made no difference at all.

*sigh*


Cheers

 

[TorturedSoul]

OUCH! That's too much for my brain. Unless the water that you added was full of gases (chlorine?) and such that outgassed overnight.

Starting to wonder if the combination of nutes/etc that you are using just don't play well together. I'd really hoped that letting everything stand before adjusting (and then letting it stand again) would have done it. Sorry that it didn't fix the issue.

 

[Tead]

I know... it's killin me. I wonder if my RO system is working ok. It always seemed odd to me that the RO water from my tap had 200ppm TDS. We have really old steel water pipes running under the house, so I always assumed the issue was with the pipes.
Perhaps I'll purchase some 5 gallon jugs o'water at the local market.
I started a thread in the hydro group about my ph issue. Hopefully someone that doesn't follow the grow threads will chime in with some info.

Cheers!

 

[Tead]

Perhaps I'm over-reacting. I mean, I did just change the tank yesterday. Maybe some major swings are normal for a fresh tank... especially one as small as mine.
I'm going to give it another day of adjustments before I claim that the PH issue still actually lives.

Cheers.

 

[McBudz]

In response to your visitor messege:

Your pH swings are due to the fact you have maybe 8 plants in a 10 gallon res. The more plants you have in a res the more nutrients you will pull from the solution in a shorter time. These nutrients are what are keeping the pH low. As the plants pull them from solution the pH fluctuates, in your case is going up. The only way to slow down this fluctuation is to allow more gallons per plant. If you go 3-5 gallon solution per plant you will see a less drastic swing.

 

[Tead]

Wow... sweet! Thanks for the info. This is my first grow, so I've really had nothing to compare it to.
I might consider hooking up a second water storage container and a pump that will circulate it thru the growing chamber. Perhaps a 40 gallon tank.
I had often wondered about the size of the water resivour. Other growers seem to carry a much larger amount of water.
Untill I can get a larger water supply, I'll just keep chasing the ph.

Cheers!

 

[Tead]

So, as a result of some product testing, I've had a bit of an epitany regarding my nutrient solution and ph issues.

This might earn me an entry in the "Neuts 'fer dummies" book.
I picture the issue using an imaginary gasoline engine.
I think of the neut as the gasoline, and I picture the ph down granular as oxygen.
Of course, any sane human would say, this model ignores MANY things, the largest of which is the water itself. But I'm just trying to create a mental model for me to understand the functional effects of the system working together. If it makes you feel better, you can imagine bloom booster as a gasoline additive.
Anyway....
My engine has a strange fueling arrangement. Oh, and I think it would have to use liquid oxygen as well.
My engine has a cup to catch gasoline that I drip into it from above. Same with the Oxygen (thus the liquid O2). The cups run into 1 big gas tank that holds and mixes the brew.
Now, the engine only runs at a specific mix range, and just to make life more fun, the engine is always speeding up.
If the mix is wrong when delivered to the carburetor and low in one component or another, the other component can't burn and is left behind in the cylinder. I guess my engine doesn't have an exhaust cycle.

Using this model, you're trying to make changes at the carb based on ONLY adding 2 fuels at the top.

I'm starting to think of the water as the size of the gas tank. If you add more water to the system, you're just increasing the size of the "mix tank" in the gasoline engine model.

Sorry for the random string of thoughts action.

Cheers!

 

[Tead]

So, I seem to have a pretty good handle on my PH and neut issues. I'm able to keep the tank in the low 6's for PH and maintain my neuts around 1000ppm.
Now, I appear to have a tan frothy substance floating on top of my tank water. It's very light and frothy.
I did just intall 2 airstones and a airpump the other day. I was short one airstone for a while, and I just put the end of the air hose in the water, but now I'v got both airstones working.

Any thoughts?

Cheers... and thanks for all your help everyone!

 

[JonnyHempSeed]

Hey Tead-

Everything looks solid...especially since they seem to be mostly sativa. Now imagine if you added a 120W....

Haven't posted enough to do alot of PMs, drop me an email at Freenorg5@gmail.com if you like.

Kudos!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Hey Jonny, I don't think we are allowed to post email addresses here. Might want to edit it out.

(I could be wrong though.)

 

[Cult Leader]

LED's this is a interesting thread like many of you I am also very interested in this as well. Looking ok so far maybe I am just old skool, as wild as I would get would to pickup a digi next gen ballast. We'll see but nice so far, better than expected.

 

[Tead]

JonnyHempSeed,
Thanks! I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing so far. This is my first hydro grow, and it took me a long time to balance everything once flowering hit. I'm still trying to get it down, but I'm getting much better at it.
I don't have the option to install any of the higher intesity lighting system Heat is a major concern for me and I think I'm already pushing the limits. I might consider another small CF tho. I figure I could never have too much light.

Cult Leader
Thanks! As I mentioned, heat is such a major concern for me that my only options were LED or CF. I'm hoping my confing will provide a good first experience for me and that the LEDs will provide acceptable results. I've sure read about allot of semi or completly failed LED grows, and I hope that the newer variety of higher powered individual bulbs will prove to be the key.

Thanks all

Cheers

 

[Tead]

Time for some new photos....

Mother - growing outside these days.

Cabinet overviews

Clones - Notice the upper curled leaves

Here's a home made Co2 generator... water + sugar + yeast = Co2

Here's some tan colored "goo" that's floating in my tank and plugging up my drip lines. I photographed it against the black background of a neut bottle. It kind of resemles baby snot, but it's not as thick, and it's not very slippery (sorry, hope you're not eating!).

This was day 36 of flowering. I feel like things are gowing a bit slowly, but I had some feeding issues that may have slowed them down a bit. Perhaps feeling that your plants are progressing slowly is a universal issue.
Some of my upper leaf edges have curled over. I usually think of heat causing such issues, but my cab has not been over 84 degrees. It did occur before I started adding Awesome Blossom... perhaps I has a deficiency of some sort, though I usually think of browning occuring when chemical issues are involved and the curled leaves are not brown, just curled.

Cheers!

 

[Tead]

ROOT ROT SUCKS!

I've got a nasty case of root rot in the tank. I suspect the main cause was tank temps, but I'm sure there were contributing factors.
I've lost two plants so far, and the others are not far from death.
I've dumped the tank twice. Once with Flora Shield, then again this morning with Clearex. I'll probably let it go for a few days and then flush it again with the Clearex.
I've begun adding ice containers to the tank to keep the temps around 70.
I'm not sure what else to do.
The plant looks like crap. I'm not sure they can recover. If the Ice was big enough to clone, I'd strip & rip and start with a new grow.
I sure was hoping for a clean grow. Now I can't really gauge the effectiveness of the LED's.

The main branch broke off my outside mother broke during a storm the other day as well.

When it rains, it pours. At least the ice baby is doing well.

*sigh*


Overviews

Clones

Mother

Ice

 

[TorturedSoul]

Root rot? I believe (I could be wrong as it's not something that I've ever dealt with) that is anerobic in nature. Are you sure that you're getting enough O2 to the roots?

Someone once said that you couldn't get too much O2 in solution without rapidly venting a tank of pure O2 into your reservoir lol. I dunno if I'd go that far but many people have added so many air pumps/stones/wands it looks like an animated modern art sculpture and they still added H2O2 on top of that. Only "problem" they reported was massive root growth.

Also, aren't there biological/organic additives that you can add that will live in your res and help prevent problems? Some say that they work, I dunno.

Good luck with it.

 

[Tead]

It is, in fact, an anerobic issue.
When the res temps get above 70, the O2 comes out of solution quicker. I have 2 airstones going, and I've now started to cool the tank with ice containers.

I think the first sign of the issue was the clogged drip lines. I'm sure the issue had been building for several weeks. My plants were slow for a long time.

Next time... I'll know.

I guess I don't feel too bad. It's my first hydro grow. I've WAY learned tons. Hopefullly, the next round will be better.

I might try switching the cyles back to 24hr light. Perhaps that will strengthen the plants so they can grow new roots.... or perhaps I'll just start anew.

Cheers!

 

[Tead]

Update...

I pulled one of the plants and stuck it in soil. I have my doubts.
I also pulled one of the plants from the tank and rinsed it under tap water. A good bit of dead root material came off. If that plant perks up, I'll do the others too.

cheers

 

[TorturedSoul]

It is, in fact, an anerobic issue.
When the res temps get above 70, the O2 comes out of solution quicker. I have 2 airstones going, and I've now started to cool the tank with ice containers.

Only two?

Someone was heard to mumble in line at the movie theater that they had five, counting a rather LONG "wand" airstone (which were on a total of three air pumps) AND one of those submersable powerhead things that suck "water" up from below and shoot it out against a deflector which caused it to constantly mix - and the powerhead had a hose with a little filter on the end on it which let it pull in lots of air and inject it into the water it was moving).

I asked the person if they had ever had trouble with root rot and they said not even when their reservoir was in an uncooled attic that hit temps of 107 a few times.

I said that must have put a lot of O2 into the solution and they said if it was any more aerated you could breathe it lol.

So... I thought of your problem and asked where these things could be purchased. They mumbled to check the sponsors first (what considerate strangers you find waiting to see a movie lol) and google "aquarium powerhead" or visit a pet store. They also said they got theirs at Walmart and it was called an AquaTech Power Head Submersable Pump and was under $20 but was cheaply made and only lasted him eight or nine harvests.

I turned around to thank the person and they were... gone!

 

[fraggman]

looks great~

 

[ironrider]

Hi everyone..in a few weeks I will post my led grow.. hey tead i had the same problums with my Ph my water is 7.4 to 8.1 so i used lemon juice..it only works for a few hours..now I use ph down only...im growing in coco I get my Ph down to 5.7 at night and the next day it will go up to 7.1 to 7.2 so now I ckeck it allways be for I feed or water...I really like my leds..I have my plants right up against the lights..very short and tight branching .Im using 50 watt panels with mylar panels to reflect all the light back to them good luck to you .later