Bought clone, slowly killing it

[unbekannt]

I made you a collage so you can watch me kill my plant! (A lot of these pictures are awful, my apologies. I did the best I could.)

My only grow prior to this was done lazily as a houseplant. In terms of actually researching and trying, this is my first time. I thought it was nute starved, then it was definitely heat stressed, then I thought I nute burned it, now I'm seeing some pests as well and I just don't know what's real anymore.

I obtained a 2 foot high clone of Dream Queen ("/cush/candy"), rootbound to soil in an 8" pot. I'd been planning to grow in coir and was unable to get most of the soil out of the root ball, so I essentially have a chimera: 8" of soil with 2" of LECA underneath and coir on the top and sides to fill out an 11.5" pot. Oops.

On day 3 (in my care) I noticed yellowing and curling, mostly at the bottom but some higher up the plant. I wondered if it might be stress from the repotting and a new environment, but she WAS being heat-tortured around 85 degrees for the first 12 days or so while I obtained a CFL hood lens. (It's usually about 79 for the past few days.)

I started using the Canna Coco A+B set, but switched to the Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice "Bloom, Micro & Grow" about a week ago. I've been feeding every other water, but was changing the fertilizer ratio every time based on my terrible guesswork.

Here's this:

Strain - Dream Queen, indica-dominant clone
# of Plants - 1
Grow Type - rooted in soil, surrounded by coir
Grow Stage - Vegetative, bought 2' clone 2 weeks ago
Bucket Size - 11.5" (4 gal?)
Lights - 1 200w 6400K CFL, 4" from top, on 24h
Fans - 6" duct in, 4" duct out, 6" circulating
Nutrients - Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice Bloom, Micro & Grow
Watering - alternating food and plainwater days, changing nute % based on symptom guesses, first few inches dry out quickly so been watering 1x/day
Medium - LECA at bottom, coir top and sides, 2 weeks ago was rootbound to soil in 8" pot
PPM - ? no meter
PH - 6ish not great at telling between the yellow-greens, been aiming for "just under 6"
RH - 20-30%
Room Temperature -78-81
Solution Temperature - room temp?
Room Square Footage - 62 x 36 x 20"
Pests - Those look like fungus gnats to me, but I'm not sure. I removed 4 leaves with tiny white patches that I thought at first might be mold. Need magnifying glass..

At the last feeding I was worried about the "a little too dark green and healthy" leaves and tried to lower the N, so I used 5mL of the Bloom(0-5-4), 2.5mL Micro(5-0-1), and 15mL Grow(2-1-6) (per gallon). This is full "grow stage" strength according to the AN directions, but 1/4 strength on the Micro.

If I remove the dying leaves it looks really healthy and seems to be growing well, but leaves are still dying. I want to go to flower soon, but not until it's recovered. What am I doing to the poor thing?

Thanks.

Whole plant, doesn't look SO bad..

View from top

Necrosis, curling, about halfway up the plant

Yellowing at the bottom

 

[Dusty Kiefers]

Whats th p.h. When it come out of pot? Secondly maybe try keeping ratios of nute the same. For ex if you go half streanth with one the go half streangth with all. Never used a.n. But have noticed about half recomended dosage is all I ever get. Hope this helps.

 

[Dresney]

Hmm, if I had to guess I'd say your pH might be causing a lockout. Since it was in soil and is still rooted in soil aiming for a pH of below 6 is maybe too low and could be locking out a few nutrients. Switching mediums so far into a grow will probably cause some issues. I've always read that seeds/clones should be started in the type of medium they will be grown in, so my money is on that being the culprit. I could be wrong though.

Here is a chart showing the pH requirements for nutrient absorption. You can see how different the pH requirements are for the two mediums.

Also, I'd recommend giving your plant some dark time. Root growth occurs mostly during lights out. Since you just transplanted the roots are probably in a shocked state, especially with the switch of mediums. I'd recommend 18/6.

85F isn't really torturing the plant. An okay range is 70-90F, with CO2 being a useful addition above 85F or so.

As far as the gnats go, I've read that diatomaceous earth as a top dressing will at least cut down on them. You can get it at animal feed stores - don't get the one meant for pool filters. It has something in it that is bad for plants, but I can't remember what it is. I always opt for organic stuff if it's available. Maybe some sticky traps or whatever they are wouldn't hurt either.

Good luck! I hope it works out!

 

[unbekannt]

Thanks for the suggestions, they sound good. I'm pretty sure the pH runoff was too low last time I checked; I'll check it again at today's feeding (although I see people argue about the merits of "runoff" pH, the actual soil was far too rootbound to sample properly). I started the switch to 18/6 on the lights last night. Also gonna try feeding full-strength this time and see what effect it has.

Oh, and I'm gonna grab some sand or diatomaceous earth or something ASAP, but it'll probably take a few days. I hope they can't do too much damage in that time.

 

[Spimp]

"Grow Type - rooted in soil, surrounded by coir"


I dont know uch about coco. But Im pretty sure you never feed plain water to coco plants. With the rooting in soil, coco outside layer, Im not exactly sure what to reccomend. Maybe Rico, or The Capn or someone more familiar with coco can chime in o help. Also the pH for coco is slightly different than soil.
Can you explain how the soil/coco is set up in the planter?

 

[unbekannt]

It was a pretty solid 8" root ball all wound into soil. I broke it up a little bit around the sides and bottom, shook off what I could, and repotted it into an 11.5" container using coir. (If I could go back and do this differently, I would.) Oh, and there's a layer of LECA clay at the bottom for drainage.

 

[Spimp]

Gimmie a min, ill drop some links on here for ya to possible help.

 

[Spimp]

COCO GROWING
COCO MANIA
B.I.D.'s Coco thread

Here are a few people I recomend asking specifically for help

BigIrishDoode
KingJohnC
TheCapn
Ricorico

There are many,many others as well those are just the first 4 that popped into my mind. Hopefully this will help you get the info you need.
Ive only grown in soil so the great world of coco is still a mystery to me.

 

[unbekannt]

Ah, I can't send PMs because of my post count. Thanks for the links.

 

[unbekannt]

Here are leaves I removed today:

On the left, from very low on the plant. On the right, from close to the top.

I'll get pH at today's feeding in a bit.

 

[unbekannt]

The runoff pH looked around just under 6. I fed full strength according to the "grow stage" instructions on the Advanced Nutrients this time, and will do plain water tomorrow. I'll be able to order the anti-gnat tomorrow, although I didn't see nearly as many this time as I did 2 days ago, they're still there.

 

[unbekannt]

The diatomaceous earth should arrive in a day or two. Here are a couple pictures from today:

More sick leaves from midway-high up the plant

It's not DYING, though...

 

[unbekannt]

Here are a couple more pictures from today. Twisted, asymmetrical young leaves. I wish I knew the conditions from just how many days ago this growth represents.

 

[unbekannt]

I can tell the lower leaves are suffering from the pests (that I think are fungus gnats), but the tracking on the D.E. looks like it won't arrive for another few days. Agh.

 

[unbekannt]

Plain-watered today, the water going in was around 6.3, the runoff maybe 5.8? I might be able to grab the gnat stuff sooner, not sure yet.

Something's really up with these leaves, though.. They're from quite high up on the plant. They don't really look like any pictures I can find.

Again, clearly not DYING, though. Grown a few inches. actually. All the leaves at the bottom look like hell, but it looks like pest damage. Those leaves closer to the middle and top, I still can't figure out what it needs.

I've been feeding 1/2 gal full strength Advanced Nutrients BGM every other day (grow stage), alternating with 1 gal of plain water. (It's an 11.5" pot.) I've been pH correcting left-out-for-chlorine tapwater (using entirely ph down) from about 7.4 to around 6-6.3. (Estimating due to the ambiguity of the red-yellow-green liquid.) It's on an 18/6 light schedule as recommended earlier.

What are those leaves doing? That's not the fungus gnats, what is it?

 

[Leftwich]

I wonder if your rootbound and thus suffering a phosphorous deficit. I say rootbound because I don't think phosphorous is lacking in your feed. The dark patches are classic advanced phosphorous deficit.

 

[unbekannt]

I wonder, would it do more harm than good, if I were to remove it from the pot and have a look at what the roots have done in the 3 weeks I've had it? Maybe I can/should replace the coir at the sides and bottom with actual soil? At least I could see if the roots have bothered to grow into it?

Or maybe pulling it out and messing with the roots is the last thing it needs, I don't know.

edit: Could it be that it just hasn't recovered from being so rootbound 3 weeks ago?

 

[Dresney]

If I were in your position I would probably take it out and replace as much of the coco as I could with soil.

*Disclaimer(lol)* :This may not be the right course of action, but given your situation I don't know what else to recommend. With the majority of your roots in soil and the new ones growing into coco, I'm not even sure which pH to recommend.

I think three weeks is plenty of time for a rootbound plant to begin expanding its roots.

 

[unbekannt]

I agree, thanks for the input. I'm gonna try to grab some soil ASAP and hope that D.E. arrives soon.

 

[unbekannt]

I bought dirt and took it out for repotting, this is not what I expected to see:

It doesn't seem right to disturb all that seemingly healthy-looking root growth. That's all the coir there on the outsides, I didn't break it up at all. I put it right back down.

If you were me, would you break up that root ball and try to replace the coir, even still?