Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Robert Celt]

Good morning Emilya

Now that you are to this point in flowering, the root mass should be well established and not apt to get any bigger. This negates the need for wet/dry cycling and the easiest way to ensure that your soil maintains enough moisture to keep the herd alive, may be to use a swick watering system like Sue does.

With a good flush to wash away as much of the synthetics as possible, weekly AACTs and maintaining a moist soil, you should have no problems bringing your organic grow back on tract

RC

 

[Emilya Green]

Good morning Emilya

Now that you are to this point in flowering, the root mass should be well established and not apt to get any bigger. This negates the need for wet/dry cycling and the easiest way to ensure that your soil maintains enough moisture to keep the herd alive, may be to use a swick watering system like Sue does.

With a good flush to wash away as much of the synthetics as possible, weekly AACTs and maintaining a moist soil, you should have no problems bringing your organic grow back on tract

RC

Thank you Robert... that helps a lot to allay my fears. I am planning a good flush today, followed up with the tea I am brewing right now. I will also get out of this wet/dry cycle mindset and start watering more often, going for an always moist soil. We will see how this goes together.

 

[SweetSue]

I reckon springtails would be a great addition to a no till LOS as the blind ones that live in soil are a bit like mini worms that crawl through the soil eating dead organic matter and pooping out plant food.

IIRC the arthropod biomass in woodland soil in order of volume is arachnids then springtails then insects.

Anybody tried cultivating springtails or collecting and using them in their soil?

They just showed up in my original run of vermicompost and got introduced into the no-tills when I topdressed. They're kind of inevitable, to my understanding.

 

[Robert Celt]

You are much welcome Emilya

As much as I know I need to tend my soil for healthy plants, I tend to neglect them by times LOL I have 2 revegged clones flowering now that I should pay more attention to. I should be following my own advice and watering more often LOL

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Robert... that helps a lot to allay my fears. I am planning a good flush today, followed up with the tea I am brewing right now. I will also get out of this wet/dry cycle mindset and start watering more often, going for an always moist soil. We will see how this goes together.

Emmie, you might want to take a look at a SWICK system. What we've learned is that using wet/dry cycling by letting the SWICK dry out between fills through vegging establishes the root mass and then the SWICK can be ramped up to be keeping the soil uniformly moist through flowering. HealingKronic has used this to the best advantage, IMO. He's pretty much mastered it. He's also the one who discovered that if you do early veg in one gallon fabrics and then bury that pot right down into the finish pot you get more vigorous plants.

 

[Emilya Green]

investigating swick next... thanks!

 

[SweetSue]

investigating swick next... thanks!

The learning never stops Emmie. I naively thought gardening was as simply as plant, water, harvest. Silly me. Hahaha! I love learning though, so this is fun for me.

 

[Emilya Green]

The learning never stops Emmie. I naively thought gardening was as simply as plant, water, harvest. Silly me. Hahaha! I love learning though, so this is fun for me.

Same here SweetSue! It's also very good for my big ego to be shown regularly that I really don't know everything.

 

[DankWolf907]

Honestly confused as to why swicks work.

With all the talk about 'never let runoff water sit in catch tray'.. Why..? Because it attracts pests, and increases chance of mold,mildews and fungus'.

And keeping the soil wet through flower..? Sounds like asking for trouble in the form of root rot, or other..

Someone clue this ignorant fella in!

 

[Robert Celt]

Good day Wolf

Swick works to keep the soil damp yes, but not to the extent of being soaked. The water is in a tray in which you place perlite and the pot sits in the perlite. Perlite being inert gives pests, like gnats, no place to lay eggs and yet allows the water below to 'wick' up to the bottom of the pot where it then wicks through the soil but not to the point of being too wet so no worries of root rot

 

[DankWolf907]

Gotcha, i was under the impression that even mildly damp..consistently damp, could lead to root rot. Still rather feed myself, but thanks for clearing that up

 

[Radogast]

I was just talking to Sue on my grow log thread and she suggested that I bring my dilemma to you guys for comment. I have gotten myself into a little bit of a pickle here, and I am seeking advice as to how best recover from my mistakes.

I went into this organic grow with great expectations, but with my learning curve still way down at the bottom. I got to the 1st week of bloom just fine, but then the nutritional needs changed to more complex requirements, and I had neglected to understand the importance of the microherd and had done nothing to establish it. Of course, because of this, my plants began to starve to death... and it was obvious what was happening with all 4 plants rapidly yellowing from the bottom, so I freaked... and ended up heavily dosing my plants with Jack's duo to keep them alive.


That worked, and the ...

Try not to freak out too much about yellow fan leaves...
I think fan leaf yellowing is a combination of environment / genetics / root mass / nutrition - in that order.

In my first grow (bottled 'organics') I had yellow leaves in early flower and almost no fan leaves at harvest. I pulled 2.5 oz of dense bud per mid-sized indoor plant, which is still my top harvest for the strain after 2 years. (I've had other strains do better .)

I hope to surpass that harvest number supplying just soil, light, water, and worm castings - but I'm not concerned if it takes my soil and gardening techniques another year to get there. Over the last 4.5 months I have averaged over 4 oz per month - which is meeting the wife's immmmediate needs


Nowdays I try to practise 3-4 days of thinking and talking on 420 magazine before I respond to whatever caused my concern. It's tough, but I try for a measured response rather than a fast reaction.

---

To echo what the more knowledgable Robert Celt said, after you flush you will be fine. What you watered into the soil can be watered right out.

Welcome to the thread

 

[Radogast]

investigating swick next... thanks!

For my money, I believe SweetSue's SWICK thread is the place to start (It's in her signature)
SWICK Watering Systems - Letting the Plant Water Itself

The learning never stops Emmie. I naively thought gardening was as simply as plant, water, harvest. Silly me. Hahaha! I love learning though, so this is fun for me.

I'm still working to get there - just adding in one thing at a time , starting with time

 

[Radogast]

Gotcha, i was under the impression that even mildly damp..consistently damp, could lead to root rot. Still rather feed myself, but thanks for clearing that up

In my experience - constant moist to damp soil means no root growth and above ground stretching without increasing bulk. No root rot.

I think root rot is mostly an infection problem for soil-less hydroponic growers.

 

[bobrown14]

investigating swick next... thanks!

Emilya - Ok first off, stop "flushing" - this will simply KILL your plants and make things much worse.

There's science and physics at work below the soil line that NOTHING humans can do to change that fact.

The 2 words the dispel the "flushing" thing are: Cation Exchange

Here's a popular link that dumbs it down enough for me to understand.

Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils, Simplified

Basically the "nutrients" in your soil are held in place at the roots with a positive or negative charge - Water is H2O there's noting in the water that attracts any anions or cations from the nutrients. Water goes in and water runs out - nutrients are already attracted to and attached to roots/humus/soil. Better to transplant into new soil than "flush". I've transplanted into new soil at flip and even 2-3 weeks into flower with no ill effect. Usually for me to do that the reason is root-bound pots and that shows the ugly head as the plants start to change.

Every once in a while I get this issue with yellow leaves right in the beginning of flower.

What I do is make alfalfa tea with some EWC added in and top water in. Foiler spray 2-3 times a day with Kelp meal tea strained and sprayed on.

Kelp meal tea will pretty much fix any deficiency in the soil. At the end of the run I dump that soil and usually go to a larger No-til pot and re-mix the soil starting over if you will but in a larger container. I've found that my 5gal pots will show this after say 5-6 rounds even with amendments added.

That or cull the plant... sometimes genetics are what they are. It's really not worth my time to spend another 8-9 weeks nursing a plant to the end when I can just go grab another one in VEG and replace the one plant that is missing the ball with another one. I just did that last week... chop chop easy come easy go. Some plants are not worthy, usually we see that in VEG early on as seedlings, see something not quite right - toss and move on. I of course do not do that when I've got a plant full of flowers already. It sounds harsh but long haul it's better and I find it hard to do but get over it.


Kelp meal tea - I cup added to a gallon of water let steep or bubble overnight. Take 1-2 cups of that and dilute with another gallon of water - strain and foiler spray and or water in. I find that foiler works pretty much right away.

Some folks, me included will amend soil at flip from VEG to flower as well.. Nothing beats a 1/2 cup of alfalfa meal, calcium (CaCO3) or some sort of liming agent (oyster flour), kelp meal and a bit of Neem cake meal... and a cup or 2 of worm castings for the win!

To reference where "Flushing" comes from. It's from folks that grow in soil-less medium or more specific hydroponic systems. Somehow for some strange reason flushing made it's way into the soil medium indoor growing as did a lot of other "science".

All that said above - there are strains that actually yellow a lot and loose fan leaves all the way from flip to chop. I'm growing one and have been for some time. I don't stress about yellow unless it's the whole plant AND it happens fairly quickly. Say 1 week of flower and the plant is a pale green... something is wrong and I get either the pruners or the sprayer and kelp meal out. It's for sure something going on in the soil tho.

 

[DankWolf907]

I love and appreciate the input bobrown.
But honestly have to say this bothers me to read, time and time again, all over the web..

Some plants are not worthy, usually we see that in VEG early on as seedlings, see something not quite right - toss and move on.

If we said the same thing about our children...

It hurts me to imagine the amount of perfectly fine plants, special plants, and most important...unique plants that have gone to the worms because people dont have patients.

You all have your own reasons, and im not knocking it completely..
Just sad about what were all missing out on.

 

[SBG]

This might not be the right thread but there are so many good people on this one that I wanted to ask it here.

Who amongst you does 12 or 24 hours of darkness before harvest and why? If yes is it threw personal experience and has anyone read a study of the science behind it.

Because my thought is you don't find that type of lighting in nature.

 

[SweetSue]

I love and appreciate the input bobrown.
But honestly have to say this bothers me to read, time and time again, all over the web..

If we said the same thing about our children...

It hurts me to imagine the amount of perfectly fine plants, special plants, and most important...unique plants that have gone to the worms because people dont have patients.

You all have your own reasons, and im not knocking it completely..
Just sad about what were all missing out on.

But they're not children DankWolf. I appreciate the angst, but they're plants, and given the limited grow spaces and the cost of running a grow it makes little rational sense to let a poor performing plant take up valuable space when heartier ones await their chance under the lights.

 

[DankWolf907]

Ya, i get that. No one wants to waste money on educating themselves...
No worries, ill be back in 5-10yrs with the new species of MJ, not the new strain.

Honestly, thats a poor excuse, in the nicest way possible!
How much room does a seedling take? Lighting...1 cfl.

I keep reading people tossing seeds that dont pop in 3 days. It doesnt take much room, water, or energy to keep that mini starter pot around for a week or more.
The slow growing seedling, in a 1gal pot...again doesnt take alot.

Plants arent children, but they are alive, they each have something to offer, just like every other living organism in the vast universe. Just because its not 600grams of bud, doesnt mean it isnt valuable.
[/RANT]

 

[Emilya Green]

Thank you everyone for the advice today... I am about to hit the tent, the lights just came on and it is time to greet the girls.

I am going to split the difference between the advice from the various experts who commented, and instead of doing a full flush to rid my soil of salts, and of course all the broken down good stuff, soluble organics and my pride, I am going to do a complete and thorough watering with about 20% run off. I have set down some larger drip trays to handle the run off, and have large river rocks to set in there to raise the buckets out of the water and have my turkey baster ready. The watering I am going to do is with a good looking and smelling 36 hours AACT that is bubbling up surprisingly well with my little air pump, full of good stuff, and hopefully some good populations of microlife. I will be diluting the 4 gallons of brew to give me the extra run off, and hopefully doing this 3 or 4 times over the next couple of weeks will wash the salts and synthetics out, while moving the microherd in. I will also be stepping up the watering routine a bit, making sure that while we are doing this extended progressive flushing, that things never quite dry out in order to keep this new microherd going. It's a plan anyway... let's see if I can pull it off. Wish me luck!