Critique my Living Soil recipe

[Diatomacious]

That sounds like soil-less medium talk, no?? With all the PPMs and so forth.

In soil Kelp has no problems, as you noted when you added kelp tea to your cuttings.


Not sure why you worry about potassium levels ?? Whats the down side?

A vermi-compost bin (with a lid works wonders at breaking down all the goodies for the plants into soluble forms and the results won't be toxic to plants.

Yes, soil less has different NPK optimums than outdoor soil does. Check that pdf I left a link to back a few posts ago for info about ppm's for soil less medium.

Potassium levels must be within the optimum range, which for soil less is 150 to 250 ppm, for optimum plant growth (according to the United States Department of Agriculture). That's why the worry... I was only at 100 so visual plant symptoms.

Vermi-compost is great for outdoor soil where phosphorous levels can hit 50-70 ppm. For soil less medium though it is not a good idea due to the presence of phosphorous in the organic matter being decomposed (try having some tested at your local Agriculture Dept if you do not believe me). Kelp is probably the best phosphorous to potassium ratio you can find in nature for a soil less medium. Optimum NPK ratio for a soil less medium is 20-1-25. Kelp meal has a NPK ratio of 10-1-20, that is why it works so good for you.

 

[Diatomacious]

New mix is working great as far as I can tell visually. Newly rooted clone I just potted this afternoon has already got visual growth. I was so impressed I repotted the wilted one and it is already doing better. Current amendments are 1T feather meal and 1T kelp meal in my coco coir base mix (just coco cut slightly with perlite and vermiculite). I also added the humic ore but not the sea salt this time. Will now have results of salt free base mix for trace mineral optimization. Not sure if this is acceptable levels (concentrations) without a lab test which I will submit tomorrow. Still waiting for results from first test.

 

[Diatomacious]

Change your water daily or every other day. All you need is a glass jar and a little kelp tea also try making some Willow tea (made from the latest shoots), that has a lot of growth hormones in it as does the kelp tea.

I forgot to mention the new clone formula I just came up with. It's pretty decent clone juice but I haven't had it lab tested. I mixed 1/2 t kelp meal and 1/32 t blood meal with 16 oz rain water and was nicely impressed with the results (much better than bottled nutes because no phosphoric acid or potassium hydroxide or anything to mess with the NPK while they root). Let it steep for 24 hrs before use to ensure nutrient has leeched out of kelp meal. About 1-2 ml of this per week is all they need. I use rapid rooter plugs which I really like so far (just keep em moist not wet. Make sure you pH to 6.0 because this will affect rooting. Usually you won't need the clone juice but for sick clones it might help... usually I just use water but no standing water on rapid rooters as this promotes stem rot.

 

[I'mOne]

My point is the profit motive dictates a fast returning investment so Indica auto flower are all the rage and all the originality is gone. At some point occams razor comes into play. As a life long veteran if the cattle business I see the same trends as the Black Angus driven beef market.
I really dont think it takes a government conspiracy and hemp genes...it takes a lot of ruderalis genes and anything for a profit mentality. To me the weeds strong just not distinctive. It all seems to be the same plant with different names and marketing.

 

[Diatomacious]

It all seems very blah to me. You are correct that all the strains seem to be the same (crossed with same hemp father, who knows). I'm just saying that for all the good marijuana genes to have suddenly dried up and disappeared is highly unusual. By comparison todays weed is very mild (think girls wine cooler)... I can catch a buzz off it but only for about 30 minutes to an hour. The old weed used to make me hallucinate (in a good way) and would not wear off after 20 minutes.

 

[Diatomacious]

Well new mix at 1T each of feather and kelp still seems to have a tiny bit too much nitrogen. I think I'm too tired to mix up a new batch today so I guess I'll just give some thought to where to go from here (man I could use a lab report). Looking at 0.93 g total nitrogen and 0.22 g total potassium from amendments (not including nutrient supplied by coco coir). I'm guessing potassium is probably ok, if not too little, but nitrogen seems too much (by plant visual symptom) but just a little so maybe 0.8 g total nitrogen. Normally you could just calculate the ppm from total input but were talking about available (ppm of water soluble I believe) in test ppm.

 

[Diatomacious]

Looks like my clone juice is a little too hot... have to dilute it 50% and try it again (I think the NPK ratio is good just a little too rich and I only gave em 1ml each). I'm pretty happy with it so far so I don't think I'll bother to have it tested at this point (I'll leave that to someone else). Could also be throwing off my visual inspect of the kelp/feather soil mix. I'll just have to give em a week and let the roots grow out to tell for sure... maybe the lab report will be back by then.

 

[bobrown14]

Vermi-compost is great for outdoor soil where phosphorous levels can hit 50-70 ppm. For soil less medium though it is not a good idea due to the presence of phosphorous in the organic matter being decomposed (try having some tested at your local Agriculture Dept if you do not believe me). Kelp is probably the best phosphorous to potassium ratio you can find in nature for a soil less medium. Optimum NPK ratio for a soil less medium is 20-1-25. Kelp meal has a NPK ratio of 10-1-20, that is why it works so good for you.

I'm working on growing cannabis indoors in containers in organic soil. I get my soil tested at our state AG university thru the County Extension Service. Tested every time I mix a new batch and will re-amend at up-pot both for flowering containers and VEG containers. Water is all we need to grow.

My test results are pretty spot on to what they like to see. I'm in the sweet spot on almost all of the testing cept soil pH which was 6.8pH. I don't worry about soil pH unless its unusually high or low which it has never been. Soil pH was done in a lab set up for this not some water run off test which is meaningless.



SOM = 28.2%
CEC = 18.7%
Ca:Mg ratio @ 8:1
Calcium level off the chart high
Mg above = optimum
Potash = optimum
Phosphate = slightly below optimum 162#s/Acre


Kelp meal NPK is 1-0-2 if that.

We use Kelp Meal more for the trace minerals and it also contains EVERY macro and micro nutrient needed by plants. Added to a soil mix with some quality worm castings and vermi-compost it really does wonders.

IF I have any issues with a plant my first go-to amendments are
1/2 cup kelp meal + 1 cup EWC mix and scratch in and water.

Can also make a ACT tea with this as well. That can be foiled on (after filtering) and/or watered in.

I don't need do PPMs/PH/NPK with a living organic soil.

 

[bobrown14]

Vermi-compost is great for outdoor soil where phosphorous levels can hit 50-70 ppm. For soil less medium though it is not a good idea due to the presence of phosphorous in the organic matter being decomposed (try having some tested at your local Agriculture Dept if you do not believe me). Kelp is probably the best phosphorous to potassium ratio you can find in nature for a soil less medium. Optimum NPK ratio for a soil less medium is 20-1-25. Kelp meal has a NPK ratio of 10-1-20, that is why it works so good for you.

I'm working on growing cannabis indoors in containers in organic soil. I get my soil tested at our state AG university thru the County Extension Service. Tested every time I mix a new batch and will re-amend at up-pot both for flowering containers and VEG containers. Water is all we need to grow.

My test results are pretty spot on to what they like to see. I'm in the sweet spot on almost all of the testing cept soil pH which was 6.8pH. I don't worry about soil pH unless its unusually high or low which it has never been. Soil pH was done in a lab set up for this not some water run off test which is meaningless.



SOM = 28.2%
CEC = 18.7%
Ca:Mg ratio @ 8:1
Calcium level off the chart high
Mg above = optimum
Potash = optimum
Phosphate = slightly below optimum 162#s/Acre


Kelp meal NPK is 1-0-2 if that.

We use Kelp Meal more for the trace minerals and it also contains EVERY macro and micro nutrient needed by plants. Added to a soil mix with some quality worm castings and vermi-compost it really does wonders.

IF I have any issues with a plant my first go-to amendments are
1/2 cup kelp meal + 1 cup EWC mix and scratch in and water.

Can also make a ACT tea with this as well. That can be foiled on (after filtering) and/or watered in.

PPMs/PH/NPK are not required with a living organic soil. Soil test is very handy and will spell out all that mystery for us soil people.

 

[Blew Hiller]

Kelp is probably the best phosphorous to potassium ratio you can find in nature

Added to a soil mix with some quality worm castings and vermi-compost it really does wonders.

seaweed.jpg

• Blew Hiller
• Apr 11, 2018
• seaweed

seaweed

Finished Vermicompost

• Blew Hiller
• Oct 15, 2018
• vermicompost

Finished Organic Vermicompost after 3 months using red wriggler and organic inputs (composted...

 

[Nunyabiz]

I basically grow in a vermicompost pot.
Keeps the soil aerated and a constant supply of fresh worm castings being fed cover crop and Gro-kashi.

 

[Diatomacious]

Hey... didn't mean to offend any lifetime growers. Just looking into the science of soil mixes and trying to increase yield and quality (especially quality). I'm using Down to Earth kelp meal... other sources may have different NPK percentages.

PPMs/PH/NPK are not required with a living organic soil. Soil test is very handy and will spell out all that mystery for us soil people.

I've got to disagree with you on that one... I say soil nutrient concentrations have 100% to do with plant health. Anyway that's why I'm testing all these soil mixes. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

 

[Diatomacious]

Second set of lab results are in... I'll start with the first which I messed up and got the outdoor soil test but macro nutrient values should still be good enough.

Results for coco coir base mix... perlite and vermiculite @ 4 gal per 5 kg brick, sea salt @ 4 t for entire brick. You can see phosphorous is at 15 ppm which is slightly high already, potassium is at 102 which is well below the 150-250 it should be.

Results for base mix with 2 t feather meal, 1 T 1/2 t fish bone meal, 2 c worm castings, 1 t humic ore and 1/2 t oyster shell per gallon. Phosphorous at this point is killing the deal @ 127 ppm, 18 ppm is very high. Potassium is in the optimal zone between 150-250. Nitrogen is not reported on this test. pH results are inconsistent as mix only had 1 week to cook.

Edit: 5 kg not 5 lb brick

 

[Diatomacious]

Second set of results the lab got my sample mixed up (I guess from results)

This is a sample of the base mix... sea salt was added @ 4 t to brick. Phosphorous only registers @ 0.75 ppm which is very low. Potassium is @ 93 ppm which is low. Nitrogen is at 4.36 ppm which is low. The pH is a mystery to me as it usually tests out at 5.9.

This is a sample of the base mix with 1 T 5/8 t feather, 2 c worm castings, 1 t humic ore and 1/4 t oyster shell. You can see the nitrogen level increased about 35 ppm from the addition of 1 g nitrogen... this would suggest that around 4 T of feather would be required to achieve the optimal zone. If the potassium test reveals similar results then it too would have to be increased to around 4 T of kelp. I've sent in a sample of potassium for testing (keep in mind the cook time on all these mixes is only 1 week so results could change after microbial activity). More data is required before I mix a final version and send that in for testing. Thoughts and ideas are welcome but keep in mind I'm hunting the big three NPK for now... when those are good I will seek additional tweaks.

 

[Conradino23]

I think you should set an objective. The deal breaker imo is your Ca:Mg and K:Ca ratio, way off recommended values for cannabis.

 

[Diatomacious]

I think you should set an objective. The deal breaker imo is your Ca:Mg and K:Ca ratio, way off recommended values for cannabis.

I'd have to look up exact values but I believe those values will change by the time NPK is optimized and pH is balanced. This will be an interesting test for those values then.

 

[Diatomacious]

Mix has gone too sweet without addition of worm castings @ 1/8 t per gallon soil mix. Will have to cut oyster in future revisions. Already getting readings in the 7's.

Edit: pH levels in a mix containing the higher amount of organic matter seem to be stabilized around 6.3 for now... increased organic matter may require the use of oyster shell to combat pH drop.

 

[Conradino23]

I'd have to look up exact values but I believe those values will change by the time NPK is optimized and pH is balanced. This will be an interesting test for those values then.

These will change very little. Bacterial activity will change a fraction of those. Your problem is base saturation, which should be higher. It’d change PH too, push it up a little. You can correct it easily with calcium carbonate thoughz

 

[Diatomacious]

These will change very little. Bacterial activity will change a fraction of those. Your problem is base saturation, which should be higher. It’d change PH too, push it up a little. You can correct it easily with calcium carbonate thoughz

I'm scared to use calcium carbonate as it's too alkaline... was thinking a better choice, if calcium levels need assistance, would be gypsum (calcium sulfate). It is a naturally occurring mineral and should therefore pose little chance of contaminating the soil with harmful chemicals. Since I'm not using bone meal this may be my best alternative. I'm almost sure those values will change with the addition of kelp, gypsum and whatever else may be necessary to achieve optimum ranges. The lab report don't lie.

 

[Conradino23]

I'm scared to use calcium carbonate as it's too alkaline... was thinking a better choice, if calcium levels need assistance, would be gypsum (calcium sulfate). It is a naturally occurring mineral and should therefore pose little chance of contaminating the soil with harmful chemicals. Since I'm not using bone meal this may be my best alternative. I'm almost sure those values will change with the addition of kelp, gypsum and whatever else may be necessary to achieve optimum ranges. The lab report don't lie.

Yeah Gypsum is good if you can keep the ratio in the zone. But it’ll push up PH anyway, cause you’re introducing more calcium and magnesium. However anything up to at least 7.0 is fine. I’d really look into micronutrients too, especially zinc, cause your mix was void of these and you need a complete table for optimal photosynthesis. You also should keep phosphorus where it is, so I’d skip bonemal if I were you and look into oculation with mycorrhizal fungi.