Experienced DWC-ers, please stop by and chip in

[vintagedvd]

Hello everybody,

Please skip the first phrase.
I am a beginner grower in coco and autopot and all I can say is that it's a nightmare for me. My PH and ppm fluctuates so much, and my girls are barely alive. I suspected my coco and transplanted in a better brand. It was better but not good. I than transplanted in coco that was rinsed and left for 2 days in 5,8 PH water. It was even better bat far from best. Long story short, I want to try another medium.

I can't wait for the current grow to finish because I want to try the DWC, reservoir, air pump and stone recipe.
I just fell in love with it on YouTube. The budget is big and I want to grow 4 plants per "season" , fast and easy.
My plan is to buy :

- a single reservoir for the 4 girls. I heard 1 plant per pot works best because of root entanglement, but others say that if you pull out the netpot once every few days the roots don't have time to tangle. Even if roots tangle, what is the bad aspect of it? I don't get it...
I already have the autopot valve which can help top off with fresh 5,8PH water from a second reservoir (I already have a plan to implement it). The reason for this is I leave home for 3-4 days occasionally for work. I can do 1 pot per plant thing, but it will be a hassle I think. This is the main question guys. What do you think? 1/4 vs 4/4 ,

- a big pump. As I said, for me the money are not a problem, but noise is. I heard big pumps are less noisy. I'm thinking about a Eheim 400. Nice reviews about that pump.

- some big airstones. I guess 2, good brand ones should suffice.

What I don't get at all is :

- do I need a second pot/reservoir for seeds/clones, or I just need to tweak a little the main reservoir until the roots start?

-for a bushy, 1,3-1,5 meters plant, do I need a certain net-pot in terms of volume, so I can be sure it can withstand the weight of the plant, or a 1/4 gallon one will suffice?

- this is the second main question. How do you feed the seedlings and how do you feed the clones, especially in the first part of their lives?
Like:
first solution is plain water;
first change in nutrients (7-10 days) you have to have ? ppm/Ec
etc
first change of nutrients in bloom should have ? ppm/Ec

Please post your thoughts or a useful link.


PS. I already have a grow tent, PH and TDS/EC meters, lights. Am I forgetting something?
Sorry if my english isn't perfect.

 

[Bassman59]

Welcome to the world of Deep Water Culture!

I'll do my best to offer suggestions based on my experience.

1. I prefer 1 plant per bucket, 5 gal buckets. Tons of root space.

2. You're probably shooting too tall for your plants. Light distance/penetration is the limiting factor. A 1k HPS delivers good useable light only 36" deep. Now take 9" of "too close" to light and say add 4-6" from bottom of plant to the first flowers and your best range seems to be about 25-33" tall.

3. Water temps are the bane of DWC. It's extremely important to keep the water temps under 69f. At 69f is where bad shit starts to grow and root rot can set in. This is the worst thing ever for DWC.

4. To prevent water temp-root rot, myself and many other growers go with RDWC - Recirculating Deep Water Culture, using a chiller. Look at my grows for examples, but this requires the addition of a water chiller. They tend to cost about $400usd for 1/10hp which is all you need for a 4 plant grow.

5. RDWC requires a res bucket and a water pump to recirculate through the chiller. Cost: under $50

6. After transplanting seedlings or clones to buckets, I actually veg in a closet under t5ho lights. I place the 5 gal buckets inside square tubs with water, and drop 1 liter ice jugs in the outer tub to create a ice water bath once pe rday and keep the water cool. works fine. Dont drop ice jugs in the root zone. It will freeze the roots and break them off.

7. Seedlings and clones get plain RO water in my case. At least until they have some roots, then very low ppm until about 5 true nodes.

8. I change maybe every two weeks.

9. I use Blue Planet Nutrients, a sponsor here and the owner is very active here in helping people out. Extremely reasonable prices, and I use his feed schedule.

10. For 5 gal buckets I use 6" netpot lids from the hydro store.

11. one airstone per bucket. I prefer the 6" long big cylindrical type. They last long and put out tons of tiny bubbles. Keeping water cool also makes for better air absorption into the water (forgot the proper term).

I hope this helps you out and gives you some ideas. Link us a grow journal when you get started!

 

[vintagedvd]

Thank you for your time Bassman59,

1. I can do 1plant/1pot but I think it can be a hassle to change nutes 4 times instead of 1 time. OK, I'll do it, but I will still try to feed the buckets from a main reservoir with a " level valve? ". BTW, after preparing the new nutrients, the water that the girls drink has to be replaced with plain PH-ed water or water with nutrients? I hope I'm asking the right question... Does the water loses ppm in these 7-10 days, or I'll have to keep adding nutrient so the ppm stay the same? I hope is plain water because I'd hate to lose so much nutrient every 10 days. I'm sure that is a noob question so I'm sorry.

2. I use LED's and they are pretty effective , but I get your point. Taller is not necessarily better.

3/4/5/6 Temp of water is very important, check and thank you again.

9. I'm eastern european so my nute of choice is Canna. Google doesn't show Blue Planet in my country

I'll post my results as I'll begin my DWC grow.
Thank you again!

 

[Bassman59]

The key to understanding feeding and ppm or e.c. changes:

Never take a reading before filling up to your top level. In other words, add plain water to the fill line. Let it mix really well. In my recirculating system I wait 20 mins after topping off.

Then take your readings. If the ppm has dropped they are eating nutrients. If it has risen or basically stayed the same, the nutrient mix is likely too high and they are transpiring more water than nutrient uptake. Goal is after 3 days, and topped off system, a drop of 60 ppm on a .500 meter or about 80 ppm on a .700 meter. This indicates a basically perfect ppm level. Not too hot, not too light.

With a recirculating system you have 1 main res that feeds all the buckets simultaneously. The entire system just flows like a river through itself. Changing nutes is simple. Pump out the entire system, replenish with nutrient. This is just for your weekly or bi-weekly res changes. In between changes you'll be adding some amount of nutrient mix with water to top off as above.

You don't need a level valve with a recirculating system like what I run. look at my journals for pics. You set the water level based on how high you fill the main res. It's all gravity feed through the pots. At the furthest point away from the main res, you reduce the size of the line, install a in-line pump, and this pump sucks the water out, and pumps through the chiller, then back into the main res where it all recirculates 24/7.

hint: Using large tubing, like 1.5" pvc or even 2" is far better imho than smaller .750" hose. Roots will get into the hose and slow the flow. We don't want that.

take a look at my journals. There's some decent pics among them.

 

[vintagedvd]

Goal is after 3 days, and topped off system, a drop of 60 ppm on a .500 meter or about 80 ppm on a .700 meter. This indicates a basically perfect ppm level. Not too hot, not too light.

OK, but after noticing the 60 ppm lose, I than add nutrients to reach my original ppm? If so, why do I need to change all the reservoir with nutes every 7-10 days?

Again, I really appreciate posting here. I read your last journal and currently reading the defoliation technique thread. All I can say is WOW. I'm really happy I met you.

 

[Bassman59]

Yes, add back.

You res change to balance the mix and clean the system. Do you know whether the plants took up more of part A or Part B? Get my drift?

BTW, my suggestion is to stay away from defoliation for at least a couple grows. It's an advanced technique and you need to be dialed in perfectly on every other aspect of growing first. Focus on learning the simple stuff first.

 

[hippyladie]

I have some questions about ppm schedule for RDWC, can you help me out?

 

[Bassman59]

it all depends on the plants, the nute brand and combo of additives, phase of growth, and conversion factor of your meter.

 

[hippyladie]

Im not sure how to even tell what the conversion factor is of my meter, how would i find that out?

Im using GH floranova grow/bloom and a cal mag nut. I also would like to use bloombastic but i would like to dial in my nuts first before i start with the more advanced stuff. as far as the life cycle goes, im trying to figure out what it would be from begining of veg to end of flower. Where i live the water already has 100 ppm as it is when i check it with my meter, the ph is a little hi also but i make sure to adjust it and keep it at around 5.8/6.0..

To be a little more clear, i start from clones and put them into 8 inch net pots with expanded clay. I veg for 4 weeks and flower for 8.. I start my ppms out at 250/300 in veg and end veg at around 600 ppms. When i switch to flower i start the ppms at about 400, does this seem rite so far? And if so, how much should i bump it up from 400 and how often? I seem to be growing some nice plants through veg but when i switch over to flower they seem to stop growing. I also veg under T5s, and flower under 1000watt hps but there air cooled and the room stays pretty cool..

My room temp is at a constant 75. my water temp is between 75 and 80, i know its supposed to be down between 65 and 70 so ive already ordered a water chiller that will be here shortly. I dont seem to be getting any root rot but im sure the water temo has something to do with whats going on..

Im new to recirculating deep water culture please help!!! If you have any questions please ask..

 

[Bassman59]

@hippyladie, Look at any papaerwork you have on your meter, or online and you'll find the conversion factor. It's either .500 or .700.

Lets take 1000 ppm as an example. On a .500 meter that 2.0 e.c. On a .700 meter it's 1.42 e.c. A pretty big difference. People often talk in terms of ppm because that's what the meter shows us. But in reality, we need to be talking e.c. as that's the only true constant.

My meter is a .500 meter.

In veg I get as high as about 900 ppm or 1.8 e.c. during the final period but for the most part I am probably sitting in the 600-700 area also after starting at about 300 in early stage after transplanting and getting roots started.

I use Blue Planet Nutrients two part. They're a sponsor here and the owner supports us here and is always there to help us. Extremely reasonable prices and excellent nutrients. I follow their schedule from start to finish. The only exception for me is I add Fox Farms Bush Doctor from early veg through the 1st week in flower as a root enhancer and I add Hygrozyme from veg through the entire grow.

In flower my ppm runs 1000-1200 max. But generally in the 1000-1050 area.

Good to hear you're getting a chiller! RDWC is awesome imho. Using a chiller just takes so much possible headache out of the process and simplifies the rest of the grow. Take a look at some of my journals. I have pics how it's assembled. I love it. I'm putting together another rdwc system with a 2nd chiller for my other tent. I'm adding a water filter in-line to the system. I'll have pics of that assembly in the near future.

 

[hippyladie]

Okay that makes sense, i appreciate the info. So when i switch over to flower should i drop my nuts back down to 300 ppm? And how often should i bump up the nuts up and by how much? Like every flush or every week? Do you have a link to the feeding schedule your talking about?

 

[vintagedvd]

300 ppm? From what I read I think you should give them the same amount as in the last veg feed, and to top with water every day and with nutes every 2-3 days until the original ppm is met, but I'm really not 100% sure. Bass?

 

[Bassman59]

Yea no idea where that dropping way back down that much idea came from. Using BPN nutrients there's a transition phase that changes the amounts leaning more balance then heavier bloom mix for 1 week, then gradually heavier on the part b and bloom nutes and less a and grow nutes. The ppm however is still up in the 2.0 e.c. area through these phases.

 

[hippyladie]

Thanks guys, this helps a lot..