GH nutes and coco

[felis]

Guys,
I've been using Canna Coco nutes for my run to waste grow. All is well to date.

Now, I've been given a quantity of GH Flora series nutes, that I'd like to use.......the price was right, lol.

Anyway, given the fact that coco "uses" calcium to replace potassium cations, as it breaks down, I know that extra Cal mag needs to be added to the nute mix when growing in coco. We all know this by now. But, what about the liberated potassium? Will there be "too much" potassium in the mix if I use GH Flora nutes? I'm not sure that Canna has less potassium in it's coco line of nutes to compensate for this or not........

What about the micro nutrients? Are they present in sufficient amounts for coco? Or......does one need to add slightly more "Flora Micro" than the GH feeding schedule suggests?

Coco guys using GH Flora nutes, I'd like to hear your thots please.

 

[d42zero]

Disclaimer: I'm only on my third grow, I'm not an expert by any means

I use GH, I just follow this feed chart using only Flora series and calmag. In three grows I've had some minor calmag deficiencies early on which were fixed by adding extra calmag on top of what the feed chart says, but that's probably because in all three grows I just washed my new coco with plain water and forgot to run calmag through it before planting. Hopefully I remember for the next one.

I got a little tip burn on all three grows, so will probably drop my nutrients to about 75% next grow. Here's what I mean by "a little tip burn" :

 

[MickFoster]

There are many options.
You can use H3ad's formula........which is a version of the Lucas Formula designed specifically for coco. 6ml Micro, 9ml Bloom per gal. is full strength......you can adjust it accordingly using the same ratio.

Or you can use this which is proven and works well.

Good luck.

 

[Enjoil]

Guys,
I've been using Canna Coco nutes for my run to waste grow. All is well to date.

Now, I've been given a quantity of GH Flora series nutes, that I'd like to use.......the price was right, lol.

Anyway, given the fact that coco "uses" calcium to replace potassium cations, as it breaks down, I know that extra Cal mag needs to be added to the nute mix when growing in coco. We all know this by now. But, what about the liberated potassium? Will there be "too much" potassium in the mix if I use GH Flora nutes? I'm not sure that Canna has less potassium in it's coco line of nutes to compensate for this or not........

What about the micro nutrients? Are they present in sufficient amounts for coco? Or......does one need to add slightly more "Flora Micro" than the GH feeding schedule suggests?

Coco guys using GH Flora nutes, I'd like to hear your thots please.

Yeah bro I used the 3 part. Recently stopped the 3 part and been using floranova bloom and sugaree with armor so. Plants look like they got snowed on! Use like 20ml a gal of the sugaree!

 

[Enjoil]

Damn auto correct! Armor si not armor so. Lol

 

[Stunned]

GH product line works really well with coco

IMG_2666.JPG

• Stunned
• Apr 27, 2019

mid bloom4

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• Stunned
• Jan 22, 2019

bud trich3

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• Stunned
• Dec 22, 2018

day 24 flower garden

 

[Enjoil]

Yeah it does!

 

[gr865]

Guys,
I've been using Canna Coco nutes for my run to waste grow. All is well to date.

Now, I've been given a quantity of GH Flora series nutes, that I'd like to use.......the price was right, lol.

Anyway, given the fact that coco "uses" calcium to replace potassium cations, as it breaks down, I know that extra Cal mag needs to be added to the nute mix when growing in coco. We all know this by now. But, what about the liberated potassium? Will there be "too much" potassium in the mix if I use GH Flora nutes? I'm not sure that Canna has less potassium in it's coco line of nutes to compensate for this or not........

What about the micro nutrients? Are they present in sufficient amounts for coco? Or......does one need to add slightly more "Flora Micro" than the GH feeding schedule suggests?

Coco guys using GH Flora nutes, I'd like to hear your thots please.

My buddy who I got going in growing uses sort of H3ad's formula for coco but only uses GH Micro and Bloom @ 1ml Micro and 3 ml Bloom/gal., also adds Calimagic @ 1.5 ml and 1.0 grams of Epsom/gal. At week 5 of flower he is using 5 ml Liquid KoolBloom/gal, and does this for at least three rez fills, so about two weeks.
I use Canna's full line of nutes but my rates are reduced greatly for both A&B, which mean I have to add Calimagic and Epsom.

Here is my last worksheet on day 36 of 12/12.


I made that 27 gallons prior to my short trip to the river and had around 20 gallons in the rez at the time. This was my second batch that I use the low rate of Liquid KoolBloom and when this is over I will go back to my regular feed schedule.

This is my regular feed schedule.


I am a true believer that Less Is More!

My current grow.


Good luck with using GH Nutes and remember Less Is More!

 

[felis]

Interesting recipes gr865. Your garden looks good, clearly the plants are happy.

What would the ec be, for that flowering recipe with the Kool Bloom, at day 36 of 12/12?

And the same for your regular feed schedule?

Looks like you're a believer in using Cannazym, Rhizotonic and Boost. And lots of it, lol.

Have you had any algae problems in your res with using the Bio Rhizotonic? It caused a brown algae bloom in mine, so I quit using it. I got ahold of some Hygrozyme as the hydro store was out of Cannazym, but it too caused brown algae blooms in the res. So not using any enzymes at the moment.


Less is more...........yes. Isn't that the quandary........how much less than what is "suggested" on the [ insert your favorite brand here ] bottle instructions? Exactly how much less "is enough"?

It seems that we can go by the instructions on the bottles, and risk burning the roots, or, we can do the monkey-see monkey-do thing, and do what everybody else is doing on the forums, and pick your ec from there.

I'm running GH nutes at the moment, and keep the ec at 1.2 for mid flowering. The nute run off is ALAWAYS lower coming out than going in. Currently 1.2 going in and .8 to 1.0 coming out. Hummmmm. I feel like I'm dumping alot of unused / not needed nutes down the drain. A few guys have said; if the ec of run off is low, bump up the ec of the nutes going in until it levels out, or run off is higher. Well I tried, got to 1.4 and saw the tell-tale brown leaf tips.

Clearly, there is an abundance of nutes not being taken up by the plants, and from that I'll assume that there is "enough of everything" that they need.

We all know that too high an ec, and it interferes with the osmotic pull of water into the plant. Bad.
And that the plants internal ec needs to be higher than that of the nute mix surrounding the roots in order for the plant to be able to pull in water. As long as the plants have access to every nutrient and mineral molecule that they need, at all times, they can take up what they need. But it's more complicated than just that.

Take Nitrogen for example......too much N in the nute mix and the plants will continue to take up N whether they need it or not, and this robs energy that could be used for flower production instead.

So what exactly is needed for the plant to assimilate and procure the *most*building bricks of sugars and starches that the genetics will allow? Is it a certain or specific nute ec?? Or, is it more a product of light, humidity, temperature, root microbes enzymes and bio stimulants with "just enough" macro and micro nutrients at all times?

 

[gr865]

Interesting recipes gr865. Your garden looks good, clearly the plants are happy.

What would the ec be, for that flowering recipe with the Kool Bloom, at day 36 of 12/12?

And the same for your regular feed schedule?

Looks like you're a believer in using Cannazym, Rhizotonic and Boost. And lots of it, lol.

Have you had any algae problems in your res with using the Bio Rhizotonic? It caused a brown algae bloom in mine, so I quit using it. I got ahold of some Hygrozyme as the hydro store was out of Cannazym, but it too caused brown algae blooms in the res. So not using any enzymes at the moment.


Less is more...........yes. Isn't that the quandary........how much less than what is "suggested" on the [ insert your favorite brand here ] bottle instructions? Exactly how much less "is enough"?

My RO water has cal and mag added back to the water for flavor and that makes my starting PPM @ 117 or 0.23 EC. On day 36 of flower after adding the base nutes (A&B plus Calimagic and Epsom) was 572 PPM or 1.14 EC. After adding the KoolBloom and the additives the finish numbers were 831 PPM or 1.66 EC.
The chart for 10/3 was the week prior to starting the KoolBloom, my normal feedings starting at day 1 of flower is 6 parts each of both A&B, 0.5 Epsom and 1.5 of Calimagic per gal. Balancing this formula is dependant on lots of variables, coco new, reused or and mix of each, so I run C/M low until i begin to see some deficiency. Really try keeping the amt of N under control.
Here is a chart for the rez on day 30. 898 PPM and 1.8 EC

Per the Canna grow guide I should be using 13 ml/gal, with Less Is More I use 6 ml/gal. Then it is balancing the Cal/Mag to prevent issues. I use a bit lower amt of Cannazym and Rhizotonic, and I use just under there medium recommendation for Boost (think they recommend 150 to 300 ml/gal. I have been using the Canna line for many grow and my stress level has drop considerably since I began using it.

Have you had any algae problems in your res with using the Bio Rhizotonic?
I have never had an issue with algae, I clean my rez with each time I refill, which is around 6 to 7 days.

As far as Less Is More, I have a sheet I have used for my coco grows with Canna nutes. I can post it here if you would like. I am sure it can be adapted for GH nutes also.

 

[felis]

Yes please, I would like to see your nute spread sheet.

Have a few more questions......

What is your coco water / fertigation schedule?
I fertigate 3 x daily, with 10-20 percent run off with each fertigation event.

Do you measure the ec of the fertigation run-off? What is it? Is it consistently the same?

Yes, I have read that some guys opinions regarding the use of canna nutes is that there is too much N during late flowering, if the canna coco feed schedule is followed. I'm wondering about having too much N during late flowering with GH Flora nutes also., if I follow the GH run to waste feed schedule.


It would be nice to have an easy answer to understanding exactly which nutes [ in the mix ] were being taken up and used by the plants during each fertigation event, and exactly the amounts of each macro / micro nutrient remaining in the run-off, vs guessing at what was taken up, or, waiting for a deficiency to show up as an indicator.
If we had this answer........dialing in the nute mix would be a no brainer.

 

[gr865]

Yes please, I would like to see your nute spread sheet.

Have a few more questions......

What is your coco water / fertigation schedule?
I fertigate 3 x daily, with 10-20 percent run off with each fertigation event.

Do you measure the ec of the fertigation run-off? What is it? Is it consistently the same?

Yes, I have read that some guys opinions regarding the use of canna nutes is that there is too much N during late flowering, if the canna coco feed schedule is followed. I'm wondering about having too much N during late flowering with GH Flora nutes also., if I follow the GH run to waste feed schedule.


It would be nice to have an easy answer to understanding exactly which nutes [ in the mix ] were being taken up and used by the plants during each fertigation event, and exactly the amounts of each macro / micro nutrient remaining in the run-off, vs guessing at what was taken up, or, waiting for a deficiency to show up as an indicator.
If we had this answer........dialing in the nute mix would be a no brainer.

What is your coco water / fertigation schedule?
I fertigate 3 times during veg, and am at 4 times at this stage of flower, will increase to 5 or 6 in the next week going into late flower. The cycles are 9:10 to 930 pm, first cycle of the night, 12:00 to 12:01:10 am, 4:00 to 4:01:10 am, and 8:00 to 8:01:10. When I increase the number of cycles I will keep the total time the same only ratio it to the number of cycles.

Do you measure the ec of the fertigation run-off? What is it? Is it consistently the same?
No, I use to but found it a waste of time a caused too much stress. What I do is when my rez is on it last cycle prior to refill I will add 1 to 3 gallons of RO water, that I treat with extra Calimagic and Expom and flush with the < 250 ppm then refill the rez and start back with my regular schedule. I hand water this and the last of the flush I add Great White.

It would be nice to have an easy answer to understanding exactly which nutes [ in the mix ] were being taken up and used by the plants during each fertigation event, and exactly the amounts of each macro / micro nutrient remaining in the run-off, vs guessing at what was taken up, or, waiting for a deficiency to show up as an indicator.
If we had this answer........dialing in the nute mix would be a no brainer.
I have found that with each strain I grow that I start low and add extra as needed, lush growth is never needed.

Yes, I have read that some guys opinions regarding the use of canna nutes is that there is too much N during late flowering, if the canna coco feed schedule is followed. I'm wondering about having too much N during late flowering with GH Flora nutes also., if I follow the GH run to waste feed schedule.
When I used GH I sort of followed H3ad's coco formula, of 6/9 but found I could reduce that to 2/3 with no negative results. Just need to adjust the Cal/Mag to prevent deficiency.

Here it the Less Is More sheet. I did not put this together but have added what I do.

LESS IS MORE
200 ppm of a + b for veg. is plenty.
350 ppm of a + b for flower is plenty.

CaliMagic/Canna A&B ratio
150 ppm/200 ppm = 350
100 ppm/300 ppm = 400
50 ppm/ 400 ppm= 450

Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.
This Calcium information is purely based on a Canna schedule, using CaliMagic. Once you hit around 700 ppm, Canna base nutes, you no longer need Cal/mag additives.

This is based on slightly rough math but is very close to correct, in my experience.
A&B
3 ml/gal = .4 EC = 200 ppm with around 44 ppm of calcium
4.5 ml/gal = .6 EC = 300 ppm with around 66 ppm of calcium
6.2 ml/gal = .8 EC = 400 ppm with around 88 ppm of calcium
7.7 ml/gal = 1 EC = 500 ppm with around 112 ppm of calcium
9.2 ml/gal = 1.2 EC = 600 ppm with around 135 ppm of calcium.

I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the recommended rate is 3.5 ml (1 tsp/5 ml)/gallon. I use Canna Coco's line of nutrients but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B and in flower 350 ppm. Now these rates do not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be a tad short. In flower, I use RO (55 ppm of Cal/Mag), to this I add 0.75 ml Cal/Magic (68 ppm) and 0.5 grams Epsom (63 ppm) per gallon to bring my #'s to 131 ppm, below the 150 ppm needed, That's without the 55 ppm of the RO, then begin adding the base nutrients. But I have been working with this and it seems ok. I believe it has to do with the 55 ppm of Cal/Mag that is added back to my RO water.

pH of 5.8 to 5.9 and let it drift to 6.0 to 6.1. Drip Clean for the win, helps clean the root system of excess nutes and keeps you nozzles clean.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[felis]

Thank you!