How do you handle growing regular seeds and determining M or F in a small space?

[diabolito]

I usually grow feminized seeds in a RWDC.

The last couple of years I've started to do some crossbreeding of strains to make seeds. I'll usually reverse a female plant with STS to get feminized pollen to use. Lately though I've been experimenting with regular seeds.

My question is, how do you handle growing regular seeds, in sorting out the sex, especially with a limited space?

I have room for 4 plants at a time at full growth. I'll germinate say 8 seeds and start them in veg, ending up in a 2 or 3 gallon fabric pot. Veg lasts about 6-8 weeks and then I'll flip to flower. A couple of weeks after that I can see the sex and can throw out the males (or keep some for pollen)

By then though I'm a couple of months in and end up with a somewhat random number of plants to finish with. (Sometimes too many, others not enough). I've tried cutting a clone and putting to flower but I can't seem to get it to grow and show sex any earlier than the original plants.

Is there a better way? Appreciate any suggestions or experience with this.

( couple of pics for fun.)

Pollen catching and a pic of the tent where some are going to have to leave very soon.

 

[Phytoplankton]

When I grew outdoors I would plant in May and after the plant got 3-4 sets of leaves I'd top them, and 95% of the time they'd show sex at topped node. You could try germinating them and giving them about 13-14 hours of light until you get a few sets of leaves then top them, they will probably show sex, just a calyx or two (or balls, yech!), then kick the light back up to 16-20 hours. It won't slow them down much and they're not really revegging.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Only way I can think of is to flip the lights to 12/12 until they show sex and then reveg once you've identified which ones you want to keep. Still takes a while, and you end up with monstercropped plants. Could be a good thing depending on what kind of training you plan on doing.
I have a plan to eventually breed some landrace seeds. When I first planned to do it I was going to go SOG with some reg seeds in my 2x2. Plants would be small, but I don't need that many seeds.

 

[dynamohum]

I have gotten where I can tell most of the time by where the 2 small spurs come out at the base of the leaf stems if they are longer and pronounced, they usually are females, But I still get fooled sometimes so I check, check and recheck. Had some in the veg box all turned female but one. But that was an unknown seed, so I pay closer attention.

 

[diabolito]

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of starting them in flower to see the sex ASAP and then back to full veg. That could speed things up a lot. I usually top the plants so I'm going to try that too.

I'd like to do a SOG but there's a 4 plant limit here so I usually SCROG instead.

What landraces are you thinking of trying? I've been meaning to try some of the strains from Ace when I have time for some long flower times.

 

[dynamohum]

i always take my seeds grow a few and then I take and do clones. Very seldom do my grow from seeds,

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of starting them in flower to see the sex ASAP and then back to full veg. That could speed things up a lot. I usually top the plants so I'm going to try that too.

I'd like to do a SOG but there's a 4 plant limit here so I usually SCROG instead.

What landraces are you thinking of trying? I've been meaning to try some of the strains from Ace when I have time for some long flower times.

Monstercropping can make them really bushy so you may not feel as much need to top them.
I have a 4 plant limit as well, but if they're all for seed, and there's at least one male I don't really worry about it. Not like there are random inspections or something.

I have some Parvati Valley landrace seeds. My buddy won them, and didn't feel like growing them. They're regs, taken straight from plants in the valley. I'll be looking at Ace for some African landraces at some point.

 

[KingJohnC]

The order of operations is not in proper order.

I can present 3 viable options depending on available space and plant count restrictions.

1) Allow the cannabis plant to grow to maturity before taking cuttings to root as clones. The source plant and clones will be the same maturity and ready for flower. Only after female cannabis plants are identified should the cuttings be taken to root as clones.

2) Begin growing plants from seed. Label all plants, cutting and keeping recorded notes. when the plants have 4 - 5 nodes top the plant by cutting the top and root the cutting as a clone. When the clone have an established root system place all clones into 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness. Using the rooted clones in flower to determine the sex of the corresponding larger plants kept in vegetative growth in parallel in another location. Once the clones sexual determination is made eliminate any corresponding undesirable source plants kept in vegetative growth. Properly dispose of all flowering clones.

3) Keeping an already established mature female mother plant in vegetative growth to take cuttings to root as clones for successive pollination and seed creation.

 

[diabolito]

I have four "MAC1 - Donny Burger" regular seeds just germinated.

I'm going to try letting them get to 4 or 5 nodes and top them as suggested by the helpful posters above. I figure if I set the tops immediately in to 12/12 they should show sex earlier than the vegging plants, which will need time to grow back before they are flipped.

Hopefully will save me some time.

 

[AdaminCO]

You should be able to find signs at 4-6 weeks of VEG. All plants I’ve grown show sex before I flip, but I usually VEG 6-8 weeks.

One of my currents showed sex at 4 weeks (left), and the other just showed last night at 6 weeks (right).

Sometimes you have to look very hard for it. This ones barely a couple millimeters long.

Always have your camera ready to take a zoom picture of it because when you find the one and it’s the only pistil showing, if you don’t, when you go back to confirm what you saw, you’ll never find it again. Lol. Literally happened to me 10 minutes ago. Thankfully I took a pic yesterday to remind me Im not seeing things.

The answer to your question… run less plants, VEG longer, and use 5 gallon pots at the minimum. I run 5 or 7 gallon felt.

6 weeks roughly.

 

[KingJohnC]

I have four "MAC1 - Donny Burger" regular seeds just germinated.

I'm going to try letting them get to 4 or 5 nodes and top them as suggested by the helpful posters above. I figure if I set the tops immediately in to 12/12 they should show sex earlier than the vegging plants, which will need time to grow back before they are flipped.

Hopefully will save me some time.

I should clarify my reasoning of the process

Most forms of life have limited immediate energy capacity stores available for use before a rest period and recovery cycle complete allowing energy capacity recovery. When we take cuttings to root as clones the the energy supply is removed and only the limited energy already present in leaves and vegetative mass may supply the plants requirements before a new healthy root system capable of supplying new nutrients and water are formed. When we use cuttings to root as clones we are attempting to exploits the cannabis plants survival mechanism which prioritizes reestablishing an energy supply over continued growth development. The method outlined is use of force and force flowering immature cannabis plants into expressing gender. The cannabis plant may also interpret this force as a stress environmental condition and possibly not express its true gender correspondingly with accuracy. I do not recommend placing un rooted cuttings directly into flower if your goal is determine the gender of the corresponding sources.

 

[diabolito]

Makes sense John C.

I think AdaminCo is on to something too. I need to get better at identifying sex earlier. I currently look for obvious pollen pods or a group of pistils. If I can zoom in and get more familiar with early signs that would speed up my process a lot.

 

[KingJohnC]

The signs you are seeking to distinguish cannabis plant gender is not micro scale rather the signs easily visible and displayed. The pistils from the female pre flower can grow near to 5/8 " or 18 millimetres length and pollen sacks grow in a clusters of oval pods each pod 3 - 5 millimetres long.

Information is often miss relayed from people who do not have a practical experience themselves and give an unqualified best possible condition answer.

If you are growing from seed the plant will not display its preferred gender until it is sexually mature. Cannabis plants grown from seed should be allowed to develop naturally which may take 66+ days or longer to display gender.

Plants which are grown from rooted established clones, it is the chronological age of the mother plants the cuttings are taken from which all have the same chronological age which are capable of vegetating for 6 - 8 weeks then flowering by adjusting the light to 12/12 12 hours of light 12 hours of darkness.

When I first stated to grow cannabis plants I similarly asked the same questions many other persons ask when in the Frequently Asked Questions .

There was once a spray they claimed would guarantee female plants which turner out to be high concentrations of hormones which initially displayed female were actually male and would express male pollen sacks in mid flower from the genetic male plants to ruin the grow. The hormones used to treat the plants are also carcinogenes and were banned from sale.

We can not rush or accelerate development of sexual maturity in cannabis plants without either causing stress to the cannabis plants, this stress commonly is at cause of plants producing male pollen sacks in mid flower.

 

[AdaminCO]

The signs you are seeking to distinguish cannabis plant gender is not micro scale rather the signs easily visible and displayed. The pistils from the female pre flower can grow near to 5/8 " or 18 millimetres length and pollen sacks grow in a clusters of oval pods each pod 3 - 5 millimetres long.

Information is often miss relayed from people who do not have a practical experience themselves and give an unqualified best possible condition answer.

If you are growing from seed the plant will not display its preferred gender until it is sexually mature. Cannabis plants grown from seed should be allowed to develop naturally which may take 66+ days or longer to display gender.

Plants which are grown from rooted established clones, it is the chronological age of the mother plants the cuttings are taken from which all have the same chronological age which are capable of vegetating for 6 - 8 weeks then flowering by adjusting the light to 12/12 12 hours of light 12 hours of darkness.

When I first stated to grow cannabis plants I similarly asked the same questions many other persons ask when in the Frequently Asked Questions .

There was once a spray they claimed would guarantee female plants which turner out to be high concentrations of hormones which initially displayed female were actually male and would express male pollen sacks in mid flower from the genetic male plants to ruin the grow. The hormones used to treat the plants are also carcinogenes and were banned from sale.

We can not rush or accelerate development of sexual maturity in cannabis plants without either causing stress to the cannabis plants, this stress commonly is at cause of plants producing male pollen sacks in mid flower.

Precisely why I’m saying he needs to VEG longer… you can’t really rush maturity.

Makes sense John C.

I think AdaminCo is on to something too. I need to get better at identifying sex earlier. I currently look for obvious pollen pods or a group of pistils. If I can zoom in and get more familiar with early signs that would speed up my process a lot.

I seem to find them more on the newer, less obvious growth more than I do on the mains. Of course all strains do different things, but seems to be the case each time for me.

Here’s where I generally look first….

Look beside the small white mark.

 

[AdaminCO]

More examples for the past few runs I did….

This pistil was actually on the main

It was relatively young still. Back left plant.

These are more obvious when there are 2 pistils.

Here are early signs of a male.

This was him… it killed me to chop him, but he made some great salve.

Another easy spotter.

This is how big she was before she showed.

For my grows, by week 6 my plants are sexed, trimmed, trained for at least a week, and ready to start prepping for the flip. I run organic soils and Mega Crop. Nothing fancy besides some CalMag and Silica Blast every week or so. Maybe get a good magnifying glass, and plan to start really looking at week 5. That’s usually when Im doing a older fan leaf trim, so while I have them out, I’ll be keeping an eye out for signs.

 

[diabolito]

The pics are really helpful. I get what you are saying with the small pistils.

My seeds are small sprouts right now, but I'll be watching as they grow.