CajunCelt
New Member
Great thread. Except, I feel way more stupid. I'll need to reread when the night meds wear off.
I've always wanted to know more about LOS.
I've always wanted to know more about LOS.
How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles
- Thread starter COorganics
- Start date
Well then, you came to the right place Cajun.
We all felt like that in the beginning. It gets easier, like everything else, the more you see and do. Good to see you here Cajun. See you later.
Hey SS great job explaining how to make up a batch of soil LOS style. I do pretty much the same thing as you add water then spread Kashi on top of the soil (remember my Kashi stuff?) in a few days there will be a nice layer of beneficial bacteria and mycelium growing on the top of the soil and let the soil do its thing for a month or 2, or until I need it.
Thank you for the compliment BB. I had so much fun doing it.
I was glad to be able to put it here. There are more versions out there from recent growers. Maybe we should ask them to post here as well. Hmmm. One of these days I'll have things running smoothly and I can put the money out for the KashiGro. It fascinates me.
Was that compliment directed at me biggaz?
They're very indulgent of my long-winded nature. 
Forgive my oversight. Welcome to the thread.
Thank you for the compliment BB. I had so much fun doing it.
One of these days I'll have things running smoothly and I can put the money out for the KashiGro. It fascinates me.
Hey there SS - go check out my last post in my journal - I show how I'm doing a SST with mung beans - really really digging the mung bean sprouts - we get sprouts in 36 hrs ready to "harvest".
I also added a pic of my LOS soil I have been letting sit for a while now and 2 days ago added some Kashi - I posted a pic today. Mycelium/Hyphae start growing pretty much right away and you can actually see them in about 8 hrs. the whole container of soil is now covered with mycelium, you can see the beneficial bacteria AKA "probiotics" working with the fungi to work with the soil to get it ready for the ladies. I sound like a salesman now sheesh.. I'm a convert that's all.
Mung bean sprout tea - mung beans are easiest so far to grow. Be careful this in NOT for anything but an LOS soil. If your soil is not "mature" and alive you will burn your plants with this. I think SST is best started after the 3-4th internode from my experience. Its a little overwhelming for youngsters. This goes in my flowering containers. I've not tried mung bean tea on the youngin's, YET.
Here's the bokashi/kashi doing its thing ... this is really alive don't you think. There's worms in there too!
That looks like pictures Doc Bud posted earlier today. One of these drenches does that I think, or it's something in the tiny bit of minerals added. I think it's more likely in one of the bottles. I'm going to figure out what it is. I like the way it eats the mulch right up. All that is going into the soil at a much faster rate.
Sue, I'd recommend looking into mushrooms. Wrap yourself around that for a few weeks
To do thermophilic composting you need to have a source of Nitrogen I.E. some source of manure. I can assure you there in not enough nitrogen in my vermicompost and EWC to add Kashi and make the container go thermo.... not going to happen, worms are doing well. I've top dressed many many cana plants with the Kashi, it forms the mycelium on the surface and breaks down fresh leaves very quickly as well as getting along quite well with cover crops in my containers. Kashi is a way to mix in some beneficial micro-organisms that work together with the plants - they work in a symbiotic relationship, plants feed micro-organisms - micro-organisms provide nutrients for the plants. Thats how a LOS soil works.
The Kashi is simply a way to farm with pro-biotics. We are always looking to improve our techniques and practices. This is just one "tool" in our tool box. Use or use not, its your choice. Comfrey is also another good tool. Is comfrey a replacement, as you suggest for the other time tested techniques in organic growing??
I'm saving that one 36.
I've peeked around the curtain a few times, but I'm not ready to get lost there yet. I keep hoping my old stem will set mushrooms. Wouldn't that be cool? When did you slip into researching mushrooms?As soon as I started down the path of living organic soil and looked up mycelium. I believe I had some in the top of my first soil mix pots, and was told I was probably over watering. One link leads to another, and like you, I enjoy chasing information by reading.
Jismo....
Where's your grow journal so I can go learn me something??
My "ton of tools" as you described them:
vermicompost
worms to make ^^
SST - Sprouted seed tea
ACT - aerated compost tea (made from the vermicompost ^^)
No-till soil of which Kashi is part of
Top dress with: Kashi/cover crop/new green leaf materials (usually trim from the plants in the no-till pots).
Not sure what a "ton" is but that is 5 tools I use in my grows, that's pretty much it. I may tweak the SST and ACT to suite the timing I.E. using more Alfalfa tea in veg for example.
You wrote:
Yes but not enough for my soil to go "thermophilic" (getting hot enough to raise the temps in the soil like using manure will).
There are 2 distinct types of composting:
1) Thermophilic composting is the practice of breaking down biological waste with thermophilic (heat-loving) bacteria.
2) Vermicomposting - the use of worms to break down organic matter
I use Vermicompost EXCLUSIVELY - Again no thermo as I do not use manure in my compost piles (worms only).
Vermicomposting takes longer but I've got 5 piles and 2 large bins going all the time in my outdoor garden space.
The Kashi I use has been fully broken down and "cooked" in an anaerobic environment for a few weeks then dried prior to my purchase.
The probiotics come from the bacteria that helped to "cook" the Kashi. Like I said "us or use not" your choice, I'm having EXCELLENT results with use both as a top dress along WITH cover crops (wheat grass/alfalfa/bean). Please feel free to check out and comment on my current grow journal in progress. It's not only LOS but 100% LED lighting and I'm having ZERO deficiencies as noted in my journal pictures AND killing it.
I'm not one to "promote" my techniques as I am here to learn, but I got a feeling you don't approve of my personal growing techniques. So if that's the case please feel free to hit my journal up and we can square up my wayward grow practices over there.
I give reps on my grow techniques I've learned from:
BlueJay
Clackamas Coots
and our own CC,SS, Doc to name a few right here on 420mag.
My mom and grand mom for giving me my green thumb.
Where's your grow journal so I can go learn me something??
My "ton of tools" as you described them:
vermicompost
worms to make ^^
SST - Sprouted seed tea
ACT - aerated compost tea (made from the vermicompost ^^)
No-till soil of which Kashi is part of
Top dress with: Kashi/cover crop/new green leaf materials (usually trim from the plants in the no-till pots).
Not sure what a "ton" is but that is 5 tools I use in my grows, that's pretty much it. I may tweak the SST and ACT to suite the timing I.E. using more Alfalfa tea in veg for example.
You wrote:
Yes but not enough for my soil to go "thermophilic" (getting hot enough to raise the temps in the soil like using manure will).
There are 2 distinct types of composting:
1) Thermophilic composting is the practice of breaking down biological waste with thermophilic (heat-loving) bacteria.
2) Vermicomposting - the use of worms to break down organic matter
I use Vermicompost EXCLUSIVELY - Again no thermo as I do not use manure in my compost piles (worms only).
Vermicomposting takes longer but I've got 5 piles and 2 large bins going all the time in my outdoor garden space.
The Kashi I use has been fully broken down and "cooked" in an anaerobic environment for a few weeks then dried prior to my purchase.
The probiotics come from the bacteria that helped to "cook" the Kashi. Like I said "us or use not" your choice, I'm having EXCELLENT results with use both as a top dress along WITH cover crops (wheat grass/alfalfa/bean). Please feel free to check out and comment on my current grow journal in progress. It's not only LOS but 100% LED lighting and I'm having ZERO deficiencies as noted in my journal pictures AND killing it.
I'm not one to "promote" my techniques as I am here to learn, but I got a feeling you don't approve of my personal growing techniques. So if that's the case please feel free to hit my journal up and we can square up my wayward grow practices over there.
I give reps on my grow techniques I've learned from:
BlueJay
Clackamas Coots
and our own CC,SS, Doc to name a few right here on 420mag.
My mom and grand mom for giving me my green thumb.
Okay Sounds good
Just to reiterate your HSO's will die.
And also I do not wish to approve anything you do, that is up to you, if you fell you need approval I am sorry you will have to look elsewhere.
AND killing it, is a subject term, because when I started out killing it meant more than a gram per watt.
And you do not cook Bokashi you ferment Bokashi, your terminology is backwards, you cook soil referring to thermophilic reaction.
Not your fault I understand you are new to this.
Glad I can help out.
Happy 420 Peace Love Good vibes to all
I think that before you start denigrating Bobrown's gardening techniques you'd be well advised to check out his highly successful garden. He is indeed "Killing it".
Just for clarification, our referral to the soil "cooking" has nothing to do with any thermophilic reaction. It's a term we use to describe the process of our soil components becoming a working unit, ready for planting.
Greetings to everyone in here!
I didn't want to start a new thread just beacuse of "one simple" question I have. I could use some pointers on how to use mycorrhiza fungi. I have an organic grow mix I've put together. and still improving. (If anyone should be interested: Wanna check out my first time organic grow mix? And help maybe? :))
It's not truly living organics and I use chealed organic bottled nutes. I don't fancy it and would like to eventually develop a real TLO-mix, but as for now, still being on an experimental beginners level, I'm going to do the "middle-way" with bottled organic nutes until I get the hang of it. If this mix is better than the last time, then I can use even less chealed organic bottles than last time, so I'm on the right track and I just need to ask something about mycorrhiza fungi:
I have mycorrhizae from rootgrow-tm. Their website says: "1 teaspoon can contain up to 5000 pieces of fungi". Is this a good spore ratio? And if not, can I get some recommendations on other brands. (It's hard just to find everything to buy, where to buy it from and if the quality is any good, etc etc)
Further I wonder about the application technique. On the pack and most places I've read about it, the recommendations are to sprinkle the mycorrhiza in the plant hole and only treat the base of the root (and maybe the sides). However I have seen a few videos where they mix it into the soil. And I can't decide which way to go. To mix it into the soil and let it cook for 4 wks is reasonable to me because I'm thinking that as the roots grow and spread thorughout the pot, the new growth will then have access to the fungi allover the pot throughout the whole growth instead of just near the roots where you (trans)plant it. But if I mix everything I have into the soil and not treat the base at all, will the fungi then be too widely spread across the growing medium for it to be effective? Or is it better for the fungi to be concentrated near the root base upon planting? Or do a combination of both? Should I let the fungi cook with the rest of the mix or is it bad for the fungi to be in a damp moistened environment for a month before planting? I feel a bit insecure on the mycorrhiza part and some help would be apprecitated. Or am I just overthinking this?
This is my plan: I'm going to use the recommended dose and sprinke it in the plant hole on each plant. And I will mix some into the soil-mix and let it cook for 4 wks. Reasonable?
Just one last little thing (optional): Rootgrow has a product called "After Plant", with nutrients and mycorrhiza. It doesn't say much about what type of nutrients or how much mycorrhiza there is. It only says that you can't use it as a substitute for myco. So it's some type of granule-like nutrient. It seems fuzzy to me, I'm pretty happy with the recipe and don't want use it just because I have to throw in as much products as I can possibly find into my mix. I only got it because it was not at all expensive. Is it worth using? It feels commercialized and possibly chealed? I'm thinking of not using it, any comments?
Sorry for the many questions? But the main issue is just with the mycorrhiza and how to use it. I just want to understand the product better. And thanks in advance for any help
I didn't want to start a new thread just beacuse of "one simple" question I have. I could use some pointers on how to use mycorrhiza fungi. I have an organic grow mix I've put together. and still improving. (If anyone should be interested: Wanna check out my first time organic grow mix? And help maybe? :))
It's not truly living organics and I use chealed organic bottled nutes. I don't fancy it and would like to eventually develop a real TLO-mix, but as for now, still being on an experimental beginners level, I'm going to do the "middle-way" with bottled organic nutes until I get the hang of it. If this mix is better than the last time, then I can use even less chealed organic bottles than last time, so I'm on the right track and I just need to ask something about mycorrhiza fungi:
I have mycorrhizae from rootgrow-tm. Their website says: "1 teaspoon can contain up to 5000 pieces of fungi". Is this a good spore ratio? And if not, can I get some recommendations on other brands. (It's hard just to find everything to buy, where to buy it from and if the quality is any good, etc etc)
Further I wonder about the application technique. On the pack and most places I've read about it, the recommendations are to sprinkle the mycorrhiza in the plant hole and only treat the base of the root (and maybe the sides). However I have seen a few videos where they mix it into the soil. And I can't decide which way to go. To mix it into the soil and let it cook for 4 wks is reasonable to me because I'm thinking that as the roots grow and spread thorughout the pot, the new growth will then have access to the fungi allover the pot throughout the whole growth instead of just near the roots where you (trans)plant it. But if I mix everything I have into the soil and not treat the base at all, will the fungi then be too widely spread across the growing medium for it to be effective? Or is it better for the fungi to be concentrated near the root base upon planting? Or do a combination of both? Should I let the fungi cook with the rest of the mix or is it bad for the fungi to be in a damp moistened environment for a month before planting? I feel a bit insecure on the mycorrhiza part and some help would be apprecitated. Or am I just overthinking this?
This is my plan: I'm going to use the recommended dose and sprinke it in the plant hole on each plant. And I will mix some into the soil-mix and let it cook for 4 wks. Reasonable?
Just one last little thing (optional): Rootgrow has a product called "After Plant", with nutrients and mycorrhiza. It doesn't say much about what type of nutrients or how much mycorrhiza there is. It only says that you can't use it as a substitute for myco. So it's some type of granule-like nutrient. It seems fuzzy to me, I'm pretty happy with the recipe and don't want use it just because I have to throw in as much products as I can possibly find into my mix. I only got it because it was not at all expensive. Is it worth using? It feels commercialized and possibly chealed? I'm thinking of not using it, any comments?
Sorry for the many questions? But the main issue is just with the mycorrhiza and how to use it. I just want to understand the product better. And thanks in advance for any help
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
I actually add inoculant to the water while I'm soaking the seeds and it works great. Before they turn 4-6 weeks they have very strong root system.
Okay Sounds good
Just to reiterate your HSO's will die.
And also I do not wish to approve anything you do, that is up to you, if you fell you need approval I am sorry you will have to look elsewhere.
AND killing it, is a subject term, because when I started out killing it meant more than a gram per watt.
And you do not cook Bokashi you ferment Bokashi, your terminology is backwards, you cook soil referring to thermophilic reaction.
Not your fault I understand you are new to this.
Glad I can help out.
Happy 420 Peace Love Good vibes to all
Hey there Jismo, whats this HSO you speak of?? Probiotic farming??
I'm new to organic farming practices?? That's funny - lemme go out and ask my worms how long I've been at this!! Ok they say FOREVER as far as they know. Been growing organic longer than my adult children, grew them organic too!
On the bokashi/kashi thing - I purchase that ready to top dress - its been processed in some sort of anaerobic environment (I.E. "cooking"). I'm not doing anything with heat regarding my soil at all.
Kashi/bokashi is a form of probiotic farming, I've been using this for my last 2 grows and also to help break down my soil mix for my no-till containers. You know what the probiotic micro-organisms do - basically growing plants in a living soil the way humans have been doing it for millennia, the natural way, instead of using chemicals/salts that really do kill "HSO" or whatever you want to call those living organisms.
I use a Living Soil - I'm in the process of going no-till which means using soil over and over without disturbing the network of living organisms and mycelium that make up the soil web both in my indoor garden and my outdoor gardens. We've been practicing no-till gardening outdoors for quite a while and just began indoors last year with the help from CO and many others here.
Yep "killing it" so far anyways, so are many of us here using organic growing methods. EVERYONE loves the taste, smell and effect, that's how I gauge weather I'm doing a good job - feedback.
It's a learning process. I'm always willing to learn and except new ideas and tools to improve my growing skills.
Kashi topdressed to soil after 24hrs - this is my soil mix letting it sit for several weeks prior to use:
Same soil after 48hrs sitting with the Kashi top dress - mycelium are growing and eating up the Kashi, once its finished I strir it up.. that's it, let sit for 4 weeks or so next round no-till all the way. This is the only addition to CO's soil mix that I personally use. It's not necessary at all but I like the idea of adding in as much living organic matter that I can to help the ladies do their thing. I'll post a pic here later how it looks after a week. I treat my soil better than my ladies!!
