- Thread starter
- #61
It's all good brother, I just happen to believe mulching is paramount, and I'm trying to share that on the thread here, I value your thoughts though.
How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles
- Thread starter COorganics
- Start date
Conradino23
Well-Known Member
That's ok as long as other growers can benefit from our discussions.
What a timely discussion. I woke up thinking that preparing the mulch would be my next step in my ongoing set-up process.
Let me begin by acknowledging to DarkGreenGoo that I am a complete novice to this gardening approach. I also admit to being an intense researcher and a quick study. It was a bit intimidating at first, but the more I research and play the more natural it feels.
Obviously the most important part of our no-tills(aside from a good soil mix) is the top dressing of high-quality vermicompost. If you aren't making your own now, start ASAP. Having control over what your particular garden gains from this black gold will be one of your greatest keys to success. If you can't run your own worm farm find the best source you can and don't penny pinch here. I consider the mulch that goes onto that layer of vermicompost as a continual replenishment of the soil. With that in mind I'm considering cooking a mulch mix that is a gathering of many different elements, much like the soil I'm currently cooking.
I've been gathering bits and pieces for this mix all along. There are little bags of dried yarrow, dried dandelion sprouts, dried burdock, leaves from a variety of trees in the area, old decomposing wood mulch scraped from the huge planters outside our apartment building, - just a random selection of things, heavy on the deeply rooted accumulators. My thought this morning was that it may be time to toss all of this together, add a sprinkling of my CC style mineral mix, and a wee bit of my Yum-Yum mix, water lightly with rainwater and just a tiny bit of comfrey juice I have stored in the dark pantry and let it sit for awhile. When my rice hulls finally arrive I will add a bit of them as well. Let it cook, turning occasionally, until I finally plant. The end result should be a rich, airy layer that will hold the moisture in the top layer of my soil and become a cascade of nutrients for the micro herd.
The idea is to keep this layer maintained (the micro herd and various fungi will be actively decomposing this layer if I get it right) throughout the grow. When I harvest I will then gently move the mulch to one side, top-dress with about 1/4" of fresh vermicompost, repeat on the other side of the pot, and replenish the mulch layer. Easy.
I may or may not maintain a separate container of prepared mulch mix. I'm making this effort because this is new soil. From the initial planting on I may choose to just mulch with fallen cannabis leaves. Knowing me, that probably won't be the case. I enjoy the look of a variety of shapes and textures protecting the soil. Most of the planning in my case will be what to feed the worms to get high quality vermicompost.
Beyond that the major concern becomes a watering schedule. I'm working out how much water I will need to maintain 2 7-gal geo pots and one 3-gal plastic so I can get enough rainwater stored to get through the winter. It has also become obvious that the ultimate benefits come to those who supplement the water with an occasional sprouted seed tea (I will probably go with the simplicity of malted barley tea) or compost tea, aloe Vera water and coconut water. You can grow in this soil with water only, but it wouldn't give you the quality and yields you can expect with supplementation. It's a mindset geared to feeding the soil and letting the soil grow the plant. The plant knows what it needs and let's the soil know. The soil processes the nutrients from the storehouse I provide in my soil, my top-dressing, my mulch and the food provided in the occasional teas. Good rainwater keeps it all moving smoothly.
It only looks intimidating in the beginning. The beauty of no-till is the simplicity after you get it up and running. Minor supplementation, decreasing costs and soil that gains vitality with every grow. The reality is that we are growing soil. The soil is growing the plant for us. It's a beautiful dance of nature that we are privileged to participate in.
Let me begin by acknowledging to DarkGreenGoo that I am a complete novice to this gardening approach. I also admit to being an intense researcher and a quick study. It was a bit intimidating at first, but the more I research and play the more natural it feels.
Obviously the most important part of our no-tills(aside from a good soil mix) is the top dressing of high-quality vermicompost. If you aren't making your own now, start ASAP. Having control over what your particular garden gains from this black gold will be one of your greatest keys to success. If you can't run your own worm farm find the best source you can and don't penny pinch here. I consider the mulch that goes onto that layer of vermicompost as a continual replenishment of the soil. With that in mind I'm considering cooking a mulch mix that is a gathering of many different elements, much like the soil I'm currently cooking.
I've been gathering bits and pieces for this mix all along. There are little bags of dried yarrow, dried dandelion sprouts, dried burdock, leaves from a variety of trees in the area, old decomposing wood mulch scraped from the huge planters outside our apartment building, - just a random selection of things, heavy on the deeply rooted accumulators. My thought this morning was that it may be time to toss all of this together, add a sprinkling of my CC style mineral mix, and a wee bit of my Yum-Yum mix, water lightly with rainwater and just a tiny bit of comfrey juice I have stored in the dark pantry and let it sit for awhile. When my rice hulls finally arrive I will add a bit of them as well. Let it cook, turning occasionally, until I finally plant. The end result should be a rich, airy layer that will hold the moisture in the top layer of my soil and become a cascade of nutrients for the micro herd.
The idea is to keep this layer maintained (the micro herd and various fungi will be actively decomposing this layer if I get it right) throughout the grow. When I harvest I will then gently move the mulch to one side, top-dress with about 1/4" of fresh vermicompost, repeat on the other side of the pot, and replenish the mulch layer. Easy.
I may or may not maintain a separate container of prepared mulch mix. I'm making this effort because this is new soil. From the initial planting on I may choose to just mulch with fallen cannabis leaves. Knowing me, that probably won't be the case. I enjoy the look of a variety of shapes and textures protecting the soil. Most of the planning in my case will be what to feed the worms to get high quality vermicompost.
Beyond that the major concern becomes a watering schedule. I'm working out how much water I will need to maintain 2 7-gal geo pots and one 3-gal plastic so I can get enough rainwater stored to get through the winter. It has also become obvious that the ultimate benefits come to those who supplement the water with an occasional sprouted seed tea (I will probably go with the simplicity of malted barley tea) or compost tea, aloe Vera water and coconut water. You can grow in this soil with water only, but it wouldn't give you the quality and yields you can expect with supplementation. It's a mindset geared to feeding the soil and letting the soil grow the plant. The plant knows what it needs and let's the soil know. The soil processes the nutrients from the storehouse I provide in my soil, my top-dressing, my mulch and the food provided in the occasional teas. Good rainwater keeps it all moving smoothly.
It only looks intimidating in the beginning. The beauty of no-till is the simplicity after you get it up and running. Minor supplementation, decreasing costs and soil that gains vitality with every grow. The reality is that we are growing soil. The soil is growing the plant for us. It's a beautiful dance of nature that we are privileged to participate in.
- Thread starter
- #64
Thanks for the good info sue, to add a real simple little bit more re: mulching indoors,
Mulching is good because it prevents the top of the soil from drying out. Soil micro organisms will be working the top of the container, making top dressing more effective. Meaning that when you top dress your container, there are soil micro organisms there to process the top dressed material(s).
I top dress with equal parts of neem cake(meal)/crab meal/kelp meal.
This mix is then covered with fresh worm shit and mulch. My soil/mulch layer isn't nearly as alive as the one in the video above, yet. I can see that video scaring some folks, lol.
While a mulch layer certainly breaks down and feeds the soil (very well indeed using dynamic accumulators in the mulch), the single most important function is probably protecting the top of the soil from the elements. (Keeps it dark and moist, the way roots and soil microorganisms like it).
Darkgreengoo, if your really interested, I suggest you do a lot of reading on the subject before ever planting a cannabis plant into your no till pots. It's good to cook the soil for a month though, which provides plenty of time for research. It's not very difficult, the hard part is the complete shift from the synthetic way of growing, you can't mix it up with living organic soil and get results. Basically we are either catering to the SFW, or we are force feeding our plants in a synthetic manner. One or the other.
LOS buds are something of the highest quality, one of the biggest reasons to grow this way is the amazing end result.
Here are some buds on my 1st run no till, bubblegum plant. Aroma and resin production are great!
This is a small plant clone to flower on an indica dom hybrid. You can see the potential!
Thanks sue for chiming in with the good words!
Mulching is good because it prevents the top of the soil from drying out. Soil micro organisms will be working the top of the container, making top dressing more effective. Meaning that when you top dress your container, there are soil micro organisms there to process the top dressed material(s).
I top dress with equal parts of neem cake(meal)/crab meal/kelp meal.
This mix is then covered with fresh worm shit and mulch. My soil/mulch layer isn't nearly as alive as the one in the video above, yet. I can see that video scaring some folks, lol.
While a mulch layer certainly breaks down and feeds the soil (very well indeed using dynamic accumulators in the mulch), the single most important function is probably protecting the top of the soil from the elements. (Keeps it dark and moist, the way roots and soil microorganisms like it).
Darkgreengoo, if your really interested, I suggest you do a lot of reading on the subject before ever planting a cannabis plant into your no till pots. It's good to cook the soil for a month though, which provides plenty of time for research. It's not very difficult, the hard part is the complete shift from the synthetic way of growing, you can't mix it up with living organic soil and get results. Basically we are either catering to the SFW, or we are force feeding our plants in a synthetic manner. One or the other.
LOS buds are something of the highest quality, one of the biggest reasons to grow this way is the amazing end result.
Here are some buds on my 1st run no till, bubblegum plant. Aroma and resin production are great!
This is a small plant clone to flower on an indica dom hybrid. You can see the potential!
Thanks sue for chiming in with the good words!
DarkGreenGoo
New Member
I am still having issues coming up with a good soil to start with. I ask on other forums and some people say it's great, some say I am an idiot and it won't work.
Here is what I have so far.
1/3 Promix HP (or just Canadian Peat Moss)
1/3 EWC
1/3 Perlite (or a bit less depending on how much Promix comes with)
Amendments (3 cups per cubic foot)
Kelp Meal (2 parts)
Neem Meal (1 part)
Alfalfa Meal (1 part)
Organic Garden Tone (for now, when I learn more I will remove it) (1 part)
Crab Shell Meal (1 part)
Mineral mix: (4 cups per cubic foot) (equal parts so 1 cup each per cubic foot)
Glacial Rock Dust
Azomite
Greensand.
Gypsume or lime
Would this work for a good starting organic, water only soil? Even if it isn't no-till (for now). From everything I read it looks pretty solid, but advice for those who know better is appreciated. We all start somewhere.
Here is what I have so far.
1/3 Promix HP (or just Canadian Peat Moss)
1/3 EWC
1/3 Perlite (or a bit less depending on how much Promix comes with)
Amendments (3 cups per cubic foot)
Kelp Meal (2 parts)
Neem Meal (1 part)
Alfalfa Meal (1 part)
Organic Garden Tone (for now, when I learn more I will remove it) (1 part)
Crab Shell Meal (1 part)
Mineral mix: (4 cups per cubic foot) (equal parts so 1 cup each per cubic foot)
Glacial Rock Dust
Azomite
Greensand.
Gypsume or lime
Would this work for a good starting organic, water only soil? Even if it isn't no-till (for now). From everything I read it looks pretty solid, but advice for those who know better is appreciated. We all start somewhere.
- Thread starter
- #66
A good start indeed.
Use Canadian sphagnum peat moss, not promix
For amendments use an equal parts mix of neem seed meal, kelp meal, crab meal.
Instead of lime use oyster shell flour.
If you have perlite use it, if you don't already have it try lava rock and or pumice.
Or just try your mix it should be a great way to start.
Use Canadian sphagnum peat moss, not promix
For amendments use an equal parts mix of neem seed meal, kelp meal, crab meal.
Instead of lime use oyster shell flour.
If you have perlite use it, if you don't already have it try lava rock and or pumice.
Or just try your mix it should be a great way to start.
DarkGreenGoo
New Member
Would the Oyster shell fall under minerals?
- Thread starter
- #68
Minerals and liming. Look into it.
Edit: the short reply is due to me being busy right now.
Edit: the short reply is due to me being busy right now.
I've seen great results on other sites using lava rock right out of the bag sold for mulch. They don't even take the time to break it down into smaller parts. One of the no-tills I've been reading about using this in place of perlite is well into his second year with his original mix. For my own mix I used a combination of pumice, rice hulls and a small quantity of perlite that was mixed into some bags of soil we had left over from growing carnivorous pitcher plants (used just because I wanted to use it up). The biggest hesitation in the no-till community against perlite appears to be it's tendency to float to the top of the mix. That said, it is an acceptable aeration element.
DarkGreenGoo
New Member
Thanks for all the help you two. I would use something other than perlite, but I have a massive bag of it just sitting here. I really would like to use it.
So here is my mix, close to being final. After reading some stuff on minerals and liming (and how it can interact with PH). As well as getting a suggestion from someone on another forum. This is what I have
Base Soil:
1/3 Canadian Sphagnum Peatmoss
1/3 EWC (high quality organic)
1/3 Perlite
Amendments: (3 cups per cubic foot)
Kelp Meal (2 parts)
Neem Meal (1 part)
Alfalfa Meal (1 part)
Garden Tone (for now, when I learn more I will remove it) (1 part)
Crab Shell Meal (1 part)
Mineral mix: (4 cups per cubic foot)
Glacial Rock Dust (3 cups)
Oyster Shell Powder (1/2 cup)
Gypsume (1/2 cup) (for the sulfur)
What do you guys think? Are the ratios pretty good for the minerals and everything else?
So here is my mix, close to being final. After reading some stuff on minerals and liming (and how it can interact with PH). As well as getting a suggestion from someone on another forum. This is what I have
Base Soil:
1/3 Canadian Sphagnum Peatmoss
1/3 EWC (high quality organic)
1/3 Perlite
Amendments: (3 cups per cubic foot)
Kelp Meal (2 parts)
Neem Meal (1 part)
Alfalfa Meal (1 part)
Garden Tone (for now, when I learn more I will remove it) (1 part)
Crab Shell Meal (1 part)
Mineral mix: (4 cups per cubic foot)
Glacial Rock Dust (3 cups)
Oyster Shell Powder (1/2 cup)
Gypsume (1/2 cup) (for the sulfur)
What do you guys think? Are the ratios pretty good for the minerals and everything else?
- Thread starter
- #71
Run with it it should be good. The best bet is to use the CC soil mix exactly your first time, but yours is close, should be good.
- Thread starter
- #72
I know your goal is to do a water only grow, which is a cool goal, and I'd enjoy following it and checking out your results...
... But, a compost tea once or twice and and enzyme tea here or there will really be good... Something to consider at the very least.
... But, a compost tea once or twice and and enzyme tea here or there will really be good... Something to consider at the very least.
DarkGreenGoo
New Member
I am not against doing teas. I just don't know how, and I heard you can really mess them up easily. It is also going to be -20 here in the next few months, so I am nervous about making them and stinking up my entire house.
I honestly don't know a lot about teas. Just that you put some compost into a sock (or something that works like a teabag), with a pump, and bubble it for a while. Then use the water to water your plants.
Like I said. I am completely new to organics. I can answer any question in the world when it comes to Hydroponics, but I am a lost puppy on this side of the fence.
- Thread starter
- #74
Welcome to the greener side of things.
- Thread starter
- #75
Teas aren't that difficult, in fact according to microbeman, it's fairly difficult to make a bad compost tea. In my personal experience they will not stink, unless there is fish product in the tea.
Please get your compost tea information from microbeorganics.com and the enzyme tea info from buildasoil. There is much misinformation about teas being circulated on the web.
Please get your compost tea information from microbeorganics.com and the enzyme tea info from buildasoil. There is much misinformation about teas being circulated on the web.
Bigjoemeat
New Member
Hi CO, is your recipe a water only soil? I know you said teas are good to do also.. But will it be fine with just water only? As for the base soil what do u think about roots organic?
- Thread starter
- #77
Hi joe.
Well it's not my recipe for one. It could be done as a water only grow, although not totally optimized with out a few extra things.
I can't recommend using roots organic soil as a base. You could try it if you wanted to. I recommend the CC soil mix to achieve no till LOS perfection! Other things could also work, I just don't know so I can't help with that.
Well it's not my recipe for one. It could be done as a water only grow, although not totally optimized with out a few extra things.
I can't recommend using roots organic soil as a base. You could try it if you wanted to. I recommend the CC soil mix to achieve no till LOS perfection! Other things could also work, I just don't know so I can't help with that.
Bigjoemeat
New Member
Yea I have alot to learn lol.Appreciate the quick response! .One more question, trying not to get off track here but, is this recipe that you posted comparable to subcools supersoil or is it totally different?
- Thread starter
- #79
It's totally better. In comparison, subcools is lifeless. Subcools recipe isn't focusing on the SFW, it's like an expensive hydro model experiment with soil.
DarkGreenGoo
New Member
Reading the microbe site, very informative.
Would giving the plants a compost tea one week, then an enxyme tea the next week and continuing that cycle of giving them each tea every week suffice? With normal RO water inbetween?
