DakiniKush
Well-Known Member
My understanding is any salt based nutrients are going to burn off all beneficial microbes anyways. Right?
I use MegaCrop. Any Sense in Using Microbes?
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The plant will also try to feed any microbes present. That just takes energy from the plant with nothing gained by the plant. If you use salts just stick with those.
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DakiniKush
Well-Known Member
Thanks pennywise. I've been wasting money this entire time lol.
Yes, it will kill them...what type of soil are you using?
There is no scientific data showing that salt will kill microbes there are billions but there is scientific data the says salt based nutrients do not kill soil microbes.
It’s debatable. The Cap’n Style growers used beneficials and teas as drenches in pure drain-to-waste hydro, and had amazing roots. But are there any of those guys left? You could ask @Skybound, he’s the only one I can think of still on the forum.
When I asked GH about it years ago, they said yes microbes do live in the root system, depending on the medium, as long as your ppm isn’t too high. They said for something like a soil or soilless grow that is getting fed soluble nutrients, to make sure to start very early when feedings are light, It was a long time ago but if I remember right they said to stay lower than 1000 ppm/2 EC, and to alternate beneficials between feedings.
Also, whether or not bennies can get established in the roots, they may give benefits temporarily as drenches. That sure seemed to be the case with Cap’n style.
My general feeling (whether true or not I’m not sure) was that little critters like this are pretty tough. Some people have tried to tell me that some microbial action down in the roots is almost guaranteed unless maybe you’re growing in a test tube.
And- it would be best to do a side by side test to find out for sure for yourself/myself if the bennies helped.
When I asked GH about it years ago, they said yes microbes do live in the root system, depending on the medium, as long as your ppm isn’t too high. They said for something like a soil or soilless grow that is getting fed soluble nutrients, to make sure to start very early when feedings are light, It was a long time ago but if I remember right they said to stay lower than 1000 ppm/2 EC, and to alternate beneficials between feedings.
Also, whether or not bennies can get established in the roots, they may give benefits temporarily as drenches. That sure seemed to be the case with Cap’n style.
My general feeling (whether true or not I’m not sure) was that little critters like this are pretty tough. Some people have tried to tell me that some microbial action down in the roots is almost guaranteed unless maybe you’re growing in a test tube.
And- it would be best to do a side by side test to find out for sure for yourself/myself if the bennies helped.
The Phantom
Member
@HunterNitro still grows Cap'n style.
Okay, well, the salt nutrients killed my organic soil when I used them, that's the reason I switched to FF soil and nutrients...and you need both beneficial bacteria, and microbes to have a healthy network in organic soilThere is no scientific data showing that salt will kill microbes there are billions but there is scientific data the says salt based nutrients do not kill soil microbes.
Just my experience
Hey @The Phantom, I thought you were "The Phantom" from don't mess the zohan 
that was a ridiculously funny movie...my kids made me watch it with them...back when it came out about 10 or 12 years ago
that was a ridiculously funny movie...my kids made me watch it with them...back when it came out about 10 or 12 years ago
There’s been a lot of debate about it. You can read some pretty well informed articles saying that the idea of soluble fertilizer killing the bacteria and fungi- is a myth. If it does, then a large percentage of our planet must be a dead zone by now. And usually natural systems are a lot tougher than that. But I don’t know- can’t see what’s going on down there. A side by side test would be easiest.
The Phantom
Member
I was that Phantom up until a few months ago. I switched it over to the comic book Phantom for the new grow journal I started. There's plenty of Phantoms out there to try out yet in the future but the Phantom from the Zohan will be my favorite.Hey @The Phantom, I thought you were "The Phantom" from don't mess the zohan
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
You are right, salts do not automatically kill microbes, or we would all be in trouble. You can still get benefit from myco and any microbes in the soil can try to complete the feeding cycle, but the problem is that MC or any other synthetic nutrient system, takes over the feeding cycle. With MC everything the plant needs is moved in with the water into the plant where it can be processed internally, with the exception of a few basic elements, that work with the soil and the roots as they normally would. In the normal organic feeding cycle, the plants signal to the microbes through exudates given out via the roots as to what minerals they need at the time, and this is not only a signal as to what food is needed , but these plant secretions also help to feed those specific microbes. If the plant is not in need however because everything is being supplied by the MC, it is debatable whether or not the plant still sends out the exudate signals in the same quantity as a hungry plant would do, and because of this vital link in the organic feeding cycle being missing, at least some of the microbes die back, not from the salt based nutes, but because the plant stops feeding them!
Not all of the minerals coming in the the MC are chelated though, and some are entering via the normal root pathways every time you feed. Microbes associated with those elements, and of course the myco fungi which help the roots to absorb Phosphorus, would still be very valuable to a MC grow.
Not all of the minerals coming in the the MC are chelated though, and some are entering via the normal root pathways every time you feed. Microbes associated with those elements, and of course the myco fungi which help the roots to absorb Phosphorus, would still be very valuable to a MC grow.
Damn
you must read a lot ...I just got "True Living Organics - The Ultimate Guide to Growing All-Natural Marijuana Indoors (2012)" but only on the second chapter
I still use organics in my veggie and fruit gardens outside...been thinking of going back to using it inside again, now that I'm getting a better understanding of it
Huh? I’m not trying to somehow personally discredit you or what you’re saying. Just giving some different angles for the OP to think about.
Does Fertilizer Kill Soil Bacteria?
Do synthetic fertilizers kill bacteria in soil? Is the soil food web right? Find out what really happens in the soil after adding fertilizer.
www.gardenmyths.com
Skybound
Well-Known Member
If anyone ever read up on the Brix kit contents, they'd see that both salts (in salt form) and bennies are cooked in the soil together for a month before use. Also, farmers broadcast salts onto their fields, of which naturally have bennies therein. I think there is a lot of hype or misinfo, or even old understandings in this topic that is still being circulated, but I know that salts don't kill bennies, especially when the salts are diluted in water.
Very nice explanation
My bad
I just knew that when I put the salt fertilizers to supplement my soil, the problems got worse. Didn't realize what it was actually doing, Em got me on the right track, but thanks guys, makes me read more...I'll finish reading my True Living Organics - The Ultimate Guide to Growing All-Natural Marijuana Indoors...that's why I'm here 
to learn and pass it on 
Okay, well, the salt nutrients killed my organic soil when I used them, that's the reason I switched to FF soil and nutrients...and you need both beneficial bacteria, and microbes to have a healthy network in organic soil
Just my experience
This ^^^^ I dont use any salt based nutrients in my soil unless its outside in the ground I used MC this past summer had a great harvest. I did 2 feedings... 1/2 bag first feeding and the other 1/2 of a bag the 2nd feeding for 9 plants I think I spaced out the feed 2 weeks. Prolly dont wanna follow that lol
I doubt it killed any microbes. But then again I also top dressed a bunch of llama poop. yum....
Inna container all bets off.
So how the soil web works is that mycos feed the plant. The plant gets "fed" from fertilizers instead of the mycos, something gets lost in the flavor. Thats how I; see, smell and taste it.
That article @Weaselcracker posted is good read but continue and read the reply's and the ensuing argument.
I'm of course an organic farmer. I don't use fertilzers I build a proper soil with microbes and fungi present and they are THE most important part of the soil. The plants come and go the microbes stay alive.
Yeah I was going to mention that the ensuing argument is worth reading as well.
Thought it was the best part! lol
I'm biased.
I'm biased.
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