I'm getting frustrated!

[Droopydroors]

So this is my fifth grow and I've had this same issue with every one and I can't figure it out. Please help. First off the main stuff.

1- GSC (doing pretty good)

1- Blue Himalaya ( top leaves turning purple and brown spots appearing w/ yellowing leaves)

1- Dr Feel good ( doing the worst, good size but alot of brown spots and yellowing quickly )

Tap water fresh is only 40ppm
Tent size - 3' x 3'
Fans - 6" exhaust and 2 - 6" oscillating fans in tent
Lighting - LED ( 800w true )
Soil - FFOF mixed with FF Coco Loco and perlite
Nutrients - FF trio 1/4 - 1/3 w/ Calmag 2.5ml - 7.5ml
Temp - 75 - 84
RH - 50%
PH - 6.2 - 6.4
Flowering type - Autoflowers
Flushed them all at the beginning of flower with pH water and light nutes in the last 2 gallons.

So this keeps happening and I can't seem to figure it out. I get through Veg with zero issues. They grow big and fast with no signs of issues. Once they get into full flower I start seeing issues. It starts with a few small brown spots then it spreads over the top half of the plant usually very quickly in around 2 weeks time. The brown spots seem to run along the center vein of the leaves. After that the leaves start turning yellow and die. Now these plants are on day 60 and probably will go to 75 or 80. I know it's not mold or bugs because the GSC in the same tent is doing pretty well with only minor signs of deficiency. The feeding schedule is a little different for the GSC because the breeder said she can take heavy nutes so she gets 1/2 the schedule. Ive been giving them Calmag since Veg and anywhere from 2.5ml - 7.5ml per gallon and this still happens so I don't think it's calmag. Am I not giving them enough P? My tap water is only 40ppm so am I not getting the minerals I need? Any help would be awesome.

 

[ddGreenThumb]

Hey there,
I'm still extremely new to this so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt. But to my understanding as long as it's just the leaves being affected and the buds are healthy many of these symptoms are to be expected during the flowering stage, especially towards the end.
How are the buds doing?

 

[Droopydroors]

Hey there,
I'm still extremely new to this so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt. But to my understanding as long as it's just the leaves being affected and the buds are healthy many of these symptoms are to be expected during the flowering stage, especially towards the end.
How are the buds doing?

Thank you. The buds are fine and over the next few weeks will bulk up. The yellowing would be normal but the brown spots are caused by a deficiency or toxicity. But I just can't get it worked out.

 

[Droopydroors]

Thank you. The buds are fine and over the next few weeks will bulk up. The yellowing would be normal but the brown spots are caused by a deficiency or toxicity. But I just can't get it worked out.

Also I just wonder if the buds would get even bigger if I didn't have this issue. I also find that because of this they smoke harsh. I try to cut out all the sugar leaves but it still is causing an issue.

 

[ddGreenThumb]

Also I just wonder if the buds would get even bigger if I didn't have this issue. I also find that because of this they smoke harsh. I try to cut out all the sugar leaves but it still is causing an issue.

Hm... I'm sure you've exhausted your search engine already trying to figure it out but a fresh set of eyes can't hurt. I'll do some research and see if I can find anything helpful.

 

[ddGreenThumb]

I'm definitely curious about the Potassium, also you mentioned that you've been giving CalMag since veg, right?
That makes me wonder if they may need more now than you would normally consider.. I know plants have their own version of an immune system, so it almost begs the question of a tolerance threshold too.
I might sound like a blubbering fool right now, but there is still a lot of grey area as far as lacking well documented and reliable sources of information about cannabis. If any of this helps, great! If I sound like a moron.. I think I'm too stoned to care right now, lol.

 

[MrSauga]

Hi Droopy, it sounds like a P def but it could also be your pH is slightly out of range. You are locking out nutrients at 6.2-6.4.
pH in soil should be between 6.3 and 6.8(up to 7 is OK since Molybdenum gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 2.0-6.5 and is best absorbed in soil at a pH level of 7.0-9.5 ).
Calcium is locked out at 6.4, and is best absorbed between 6.5 and 9.1. When certain nutrients are locked out others may get locked out as well. As an example, a lack of calcium in the soil may cause too acidic soil which may lead to Mg or Iron deficiency. I know you are using Calmag but the point is nutrients are being locked out.
Bring your ph up a bit and see if it helps before treating for something else.

 

[Droopydroors]

Hi Droopy, it sounds like a P def but it could also be your pH is slightly out of range. You are locking out nutrients at 6.2-6.4.
pH in soil should be between 6.3 and 6.8(up to 7 is OK since Molybdenum gets locked out of soil growing at pH levels of 2.0-6.5 and is best absorbed in soil at a pH level of 7.0-9.5 ).
Calcium is locked out at 6.4, and is best absorbed between 6.5 and 9.1. When certain nutrients are locked out others may get locked out as well. As an example, a lack of calcium in the soil may cause too acidic soil which may lead to Mg or Iron deficiency. I know you are using Calmag but the point is nutrients are being locked out.
Bring your ph up a bit and see if it helps before treating for something else.

I will give that a try. Ive been going low because for some reason the soil pH (with a cheap soil meter) is reading 7. But you know what I've been keeping it below 6.5 for so long maybe that is the problem. I have a watering tomorrow and I will get it up to 6.7. Thank you!! I will be very happy if this works. It may be too late for these girls but my next run I will try that from the start.

 

[MrSauga]

I will give that a try. Ive been going low because for some reason the soil pH (with a cheap soil meter) is reading 7.

Good morning Droopy,
as you are probably aware by your statement, the soil meters are cheap, and hit and miss. The 3in1 probes are the worst. If you really want to use a soil meter check out the Luster Leaf RapidTest 1835 Soil Analyzer from the online jungle store. This one will at least make your probe move. The 3 in 1's never move off 7 for some reason.
Here's what you do if you can. Get a good pH pen, which it sounds like you have, and measure the pH of the water before and after you add all your nutes and stuff. Make sure you hit the ranges mentioned above. If you soil is close to Neutral to begin with you'll never have to test your soil if the water going in is within range.
Next, you can measure the pH of the water runoff with the pen and that will give you a good idea if your soil is acidic or not. The FFOF is good stuff and most people may only feed once at veg and maybe once or twice during flower. You have been using tap water so it's possible all the nutes have been used up.
What size pots are you using? They look like 3 or 5 gals and for the size of that plant I'd say a 7gal is more appropriate. Too small a pot and the roots get all bundled up and nutrients die out fast.
Are you using the tap water straight from the source to the plants? Again, many people try and let the tap water sit for 24hours to let the chlorine dissipate, which is another thing to consider. The fact you have had the same issue 5 times only during flower leads me to believe it's missing nutrients somewhere.

 

[ddGreenThumb]

Good morning Droopy,
as you are probably aware by your statement, the soil meters are cheap, and hit and miss. The 3in1 probes are the worst. If you really want to use a soil meter check out the Luster Leaf RapidTest 1835 Soil Analyzer from the online jungle store. This one will at least make your probe move. The 3 in 1's never move off 7 for some reason.
Here's what you do if you can. Get a good pH pen, which it sounds like you have, and measure the pH of the water before and after you add all your nutes and stuff. Make sure you hit the ranges mentioned above. If you soil is close to Neutral to begin with you'll never have to test your soil if the water going in is within range.
Next, you can measure the pH of the water runoff with the pen and that will give you a good idea if your soil is acidic or not. The FFOF is good stuff and most people may only feed once at veg and maybe once or twice during flower. You have been using tap water so it's possible all the nutes have been used up.
What size pots are you using? They look like 3 or 5 gals and for the size of that plant I'd say a 7gal is more appropriate. Too small a pot and the roots get all bundled up and nutrients die out fast.
Are you using the tap water straight from the source to the plants? Again, many people try and let the tap water sit for 24hours to let the chlorine dissipate, which is another thing to consider. The fact you have had the same issue 5 times only during flower leads me to believe it's missing nutrients somewhere.

Agreed, the 3in1 is not only trash.. But a major headache later. Just imo

 

[Mayne]

Potassium deficiency, PH to 5.8. Your using cocoloco, I master cocoloco use, i love the stuff. I had the exact problems till i got a PH meter, ( growwboss megameter) and once i lowered my PH to 5.5-5.8 Ive seen beautiful, green lush growth with not 1 single problem, browns spot, nothing, totally perfect.

Tellin ya, lower your PH to 5.8 and im sure youll see the fix.

also, make sure your putting your calmag in 1st, before ANYTHING, 4ML per gallon till 4 weeks before you chop date. then stop using it.

I watered 10 times a day, in 3 gallon fab pots,.. You pot size is perfect for a tent.

Next time, forget the FFOF, and go straight cocoloco. But your PH must be 5.8, and water 2 times a day if you can.

day65bud5scrogmon1.png

• Mayne
• Aug 13, 2018

 

[Mayne]

That was with 200watts, and has since been chopped down, went into humidity rage, and when i woke up, i guess i tore it all out, packed everything up, and wont start again till i get a AC,

 

[MrSauga]

pH in soil should be between 6.3 and 6.8

Mayne made a good point, and I would heed his advice. I mistakenly got caught up in soil, and you are in a soil less environment, so ideally yes 5.8 is the target number. Sorry for the mis-information.

 

[Chris Scorpio]

Hebis actually mixed, ffof and Coco
And I'd say that's the issue

pH is probably too high, and if it's heavy Coco, probably loosing nutes, thus the calmag issues and such

 

[Droopydroors]

Ok so let me start by saying thank you all. Coco Loco is just soil that Coco is used instead of peat moss and I was told to treat it as soil.

Good morning Droopy,
as you are probably aware by your statement, the soil meters are cheap, and hit and miss. The 3in1 probes are the worst. If you really want to use a soil meter check out the Luster Leaf RapidTest 1835 Soil Analyzer from the online jungle store. This one will at least make your probe move. The 3 in 1's never move off 7 for some reason.
Here's what you do if you can. Get a good pH pen, which it sounds like you have, and measure the pH of the water before and after you add all your nutes and stuff. Make sure you hit the ranges mentioned above. If you soil is close to Neutral to begin with you'll never have to test your soil if the water going in is within range.
Next, you can measure the pH of the water runoff with the pen and that will give you a good idea if your soil is acidic or not. The FFOF is good stuff and most people may only feed once at veg and maybe once or twice during flower. You have been using tap water so it's possible all the nutes have been used up.
What size pots are you using? They look like 3 or 5 gals and for the size of that plant I'd say a 7gal is more appropriate. Too small a pot and the roots get all bundled up and nutrients die out fast.
Are you using the tap water straight from the source to the plants? Again, many people try and let the tap water sit for 24hours to let the chlorine dissipate, which is another thing to consider. The fact you have had the same issue 5 times only during flower leads me to believe it's missing nutrients somewhere.

I am using a Blue Labs pH meter and should probably get the soil probe so that problem would be solved. I am using 3 gallon pots do not have enough room for 7 gal. This grow they are almost too tall for the 6' tent so that option is out unless I get a bigger tent. I let the tap water sit for 48 before use.

 

[Droopydroors]

Potassium deficiency, PH to 5.8. Your using cocoloco, I master cocoloco use, i love the stuff. I had the exact problems till i got a PH meter, ( growwboss megameter) and once i lowered my PH to 5.5-5.8 Ive seen beautiful, green lush growth with not 1 single problem, browns spot, nothing, totally perfect.

Tellin ya, lower your PH to 5.8 and im sure youll see the fix.

also, make sure your putting your calmag in 1st, before ANYTHING, 4ML per gallon till 4 weeks before you chop date. then stop using it.

I watered 10 times a day, in 3 gallon fab pots,.. You pot size is perfect for a tent.

Next time, forget the FFOF, and go straight cocoloco. But your PH must be 5.8, and water 2 times a day if you can.

day65bud5scrogmon1.png

• Mayne
• Aug 13, 2018

Now I'm just confused and will never use Coco Loco again because it looks just like soil. I was told to feed and use it as soil. And now I'm being told to treat it like Coco. Screw this stuff I'll just go back to FFOF. That picture is how all my girls look during Veg... Beautiful, full green machines. Then flower comes and the problems begin.

 

[Droopydroors]

Now I'm just confused and will never use Coco Loco again because it looks just like soil. I was told to feed and use it as soil. And now I'm being told to treat it like Coco. Screw this stuff I'll just go back to FFOF. That picture is how all my girls look during Veg... Beautiful, full green machines. Then flower comes and the problems begin.

I also want to say thank you. My last reaction was just my gut instinct. So basically you are saying treat it as if it were Coco. Water twice a day and keep pH low. You must be the only person I have talked to on any forum that actually uses this stuff. When I went to the local Hydro store they had it for a good price so i picked yp a bag to try. And ever since then my problems have been many. Great through Veg then fall apart during flower. O well I used the last of it this grow and that's why I mixed in a little FFOF because I needed to stretch it to 3 pots.

 

[Blew Hiller]

The 3in1 probes are the worst. If you really want to use a soil meter check out the Luster Leaf RapidTest 1835 Soil Analyzer from the online jungle store. This one will at least make your probe move. The 3 in 1's never move off 7 for some reason.

Rapitest 1835 Luster Leaf Digital 3-Way Soil Analyzer

Am I missing something here?

 

[3fingerdSean]

It looks like a boron deficiency to me. Depleted by excess calcium and a lack of organics in the soil and severe lack of nitrogen. when the grows over you can send a little sample of the soil to a lab to get an analysis done but those red leaves and necrotic blotches are classic boron deficient signs. To avoid this next grow use more organics in the soil mix and be mindful that a lack of nitrogen which is standard during flower along with excess calcium can cause a boron deficiency.

 

[Calvados]

Sounds like more than one issue.

Those prong measures are good for detecting moisture in the bottom of the pot if you drill holes in the lower sides. Useless for measuring PH.

My guess would be PH too high as mentioned. Makes sense as flower requires different nutrient levels than veg. Why not pick a medium that has a known PH range? It's one less thing to factor in.

The harsh taste you can deal with by bud washing. Bud washing

Back building is a way to bulk up your Colas. Back building