The Dr. Bruce Bugbee Thread

[Delps8]

Chacun a son gout.

The guy who claims to be cranking out pounds in his basement is a grower. Dr Bugbee is a researcher in the area of growing cannabis.

If the guy who claims to be cranking out pounds in his basement can provide data about his grow so that it can be reproduced, that would be great. If not, that's all well and good for him but it does no one else any good. In contrast, Dr. Bugbee is in charge of a research team that conducts experiments and publishes the results so that growers around the world can increase their yields. And it's free.

The guy cranking out pounds in the basement could well be a great source of information but I have no idea. What we do know is that Dr. Bugbee is a source of information and the information that he gives away is based on reproducible experiments. I'd posit that the results of his experiments have allowed cannabis growers to increase their yields by tons. Tons of tons. Hundreds of thousands of tons. Dunno.

His approach is not for everyone. When I read postings on this site (and others), I can see that growers cover the spectrum (pardon the pun) from "Yeh, throw the seeds in the ground, water them every day or so and they'll do fine" to commercial growers to control every aspect of the grow. I'm pretty certain that the folks in the first category lead a lot lower stress life than the folks in the latter category but techniques and results that are not reproducible are called anecdotes.

We're free to run our grow any way we want to our grow. What's so valuable about what Dr Bugbee is sharing with the world is that his research team publishes the exact conditions under which the experiment was carried out. The guy cranking out bud in his basement might well say that he produces huge amounts of cannabis and that's a great anecdote ("story, report, grow journal, etc.) but it doesn't do anyone else any good unless he publishes his methods and those methods are reproducible by others.

[edit]
I've attached a pix of seedlings. 10 days ago, they were seeds. I've used an Apogee MQ-500 to dial the light levels of a Mars SP 3000 (dimmable) + an 18 watt T5 that hangs over one of the seedlings in this res. That's really granular but, heh, knowing exactly how much light is falling on each plant is sorta interesting different and it's really the only way to know how much usable light the plants are getting.

 

[Curbcalamity]

Actually I thought Dr. Bruce Bugbee was simply a scientist working on, amongst other things, space farming with NASA and more recently has been researching the effects of light spectrum on plant physiology as well as president of apogee instruments. but the reason I love bruce and trust him is that he's not trying to sell me a product. everyone other 'expert' is basically trying to sell you their product. bruce doesn't seem to have any ulterior motives for the research he does. which is why I like him. Everything he says is true, period. my only comment on the 'guy says he's cranking out lbs in his basement', I don't think it does no one any good. often when I speak with my friends who done this longer than I've been alive they get frustrated and say I'm overthinking it. but then that's me I gotta find out for myself lol

 

[Weaselcracker]

Some of the growers I respect the most are fans of Bugbee

 

[Curbcalamity]

I didn't say I listened to other peoples bullshit though.. I love Dr. Bruce, mans a champion. I don't feel the need to question what he says. also jealous I want an Apogee quantum meter

 

[Delps8]

Interesting comments.

I only know him from the perspective of YouTube/growing weed/light meters. It sounds like your perspective is from the science community. My knowledge of him goes back only weeks, I suspect, unlike yours.
He's not trying to sell you a product but he is selling you a product, albeit in a very unobtrusive way. What little I know about him is that he's the founder of Apogee and he's a an acknowledged expert in cannabis horticulture. OK, I don't hold that against him.

What I do is listen to what he discussed on YouTube and that lead me to look up research papers. His research is in line with findings from other established research organizations. Everything he says is true, period.".

"often when I speak with my friends who done this longer than I've been alive they get frustrated and say I'm overthinking it. but then that's me I gotta find out for myself lol"
Each to his own, right? A lot of folks have grown a lot of weed using a variety of methods and they're OK with that. It's not that "you're finding out for yourself". It's just the opposite. Instead of trying to figure it out for yourself, you're using the facts proven by others to be beneficial.

 

[Delps8]

I didn't say I listened to other peoples bullshit though.. I love Dr. Bruce, mans a champion. I don't feel the need to question what he says. also jealous I want an Apogee quantum meter

Yeh, I choked, too. I looked at some of the other products out there and but I had just tossed out a couple of sets of seeds. Ouch.

 

[Curbcalamity]

Yeah any time they say contact your local supplier for a quote expect to fork out a bunch of monies

 

[Enjoil]

I

Chacun a son gout.

The guy who claims to be cranking out pounds in his basement is a grower. Dr Bugbee is a researcher in the area of growing cannabis.

If the guy who claims to be cranking out pounds in his basement can provide data about his grow so that it can be reproduced, that would be great. If not, that's all well and good for him but it does no one else any good. In contrast, Dr. Bugbee is in charge of a research team that conducts experiments and publishes the results so that growers around the world can increase their yields. And it's free.

The guy cranking out pounds in the basement could well be a great source of information but I have no idea. What we do know is that Dr. Bugbee is a source of information and the information that he gives away is based on reproducible experiments. I'd posit that the results of his experiments have allowed cannabis growers to increase their yields by tons. Tons of tons. Hundreds of thousands of tons. Dunno.

His approach is not for everyone. When I read postings on this site (and others), I can see that growers cover the spectrum (pardon the pun) from "Yeh, throw the seeds in the ground, water them every day or so and they'll do fine" to commercial growers to control every aspect of the grow. I'm pretty certain that the folks in the first category lead a lot lower stress life than the folks in the latter category but techniques and results that are not reproducible are called anecdotes.

We're free to run our grow any way we want to our grow. What's so valuable about what Dr Bugbee is sharing with the world is that his research team publishes the exact conditions under which the experiment was carried out. The guy cranking out bud in his basement might well say that he produces huge amounts of cannabis and that's a great anecdote ("story, report, grow journal, etc.) but it doesn't do anyone else any good unless he publishes his methods and those methods are reproducible by others.

[edit]
I've attached a pix of seedlings. 10 days ago, they were seeds. I've used an Apogee MQ-500 to dial the light levels of a Mars SP 3000 (dimmable) + an 18 watt T5 that hangs over one of the seedlings in this res. That's really granular but, heh, knowing exactly how much light is falling on each plant is sorta interesting different and it's really the only way to know how much usable light the plants are getting.

What I do is study the plant. Even phenos can grow different. Then I have 5 different stages I move the plants through. Pop em, early veg, veg, transition to flower and flower.... . And I’m messing with coco. I want to get into organics.... that’s what’s interesting to And

My bad bro, I for real just can force myself to watch those YouTube videos. I’m not trying to knock anyone... dude probably knows his stuff.

 

[Delps8]

Yeah any time they say contact your local supplier for a quote expect to fork out a bunch of monies

You got that right. The 500 sells on Amazon so Apogee is probably moving some volume. But the spectrograph? That's really specialized. I don't know the price but I'd bet it's got a comma in it.

 

[Delps8]

I

What I do is study the plant. Even phenos can grow different. Then I have 5 different stages I move the plants through. Pop em, early veg, veg, transition to flower and flower.... . And I’m messing with coco. I want to get into organics.... that’s what’s interesting to And

Studying that plant is absolutely needed but, to my way of thinking (and very limited experience), that comes in down the road to avoid or deal with nute issues, root rot, etc. That might be a numbers game for a commercial grower but there's no way to get the kind of analysis that can replace experience, knowledge, and observation all feeding into the human brain to know what to do. That's where "study the plant" really shines.
I can understand stuff like PPFD, DLI, and color spectrum because that's basic physics but being able to look at a plant and know what's causing what is equal parts knowledge, intuition, and voodoo. That's "expertise" vs what I've done which is to buy stuff, hook it up, and spin the dials to the right setting.
Both sets of skills are needed to a successful grow and, to be frank, you can get further with setting your lights "just about right" and being able to diagnose/head off issues than you can with my blinky light toys and minimal level of understanding plants. I can buy an Apogee but I can't get the knowledge that's in your head.

My bad bro, I for real just can force myself to watch those YouTube videos. I’m not trying to knock anyone... dude probably knows his stuff.

No es nada. I get antsy watching videos, too, even if nudity is involved.
I usually skip ahead because so much of YouTube videos are fluff. A lot of instructional videos are based on the premise of "tell em what you're going to tell 'em, tell 'em, and tell 'em what you told 'em", so it can take a long time to get to done.
I've tried listening to podcasts - that's a "no can do" for me. For me, it's me read a transcript and I'll get back to you if I have questions.

Re. "dude knows his stuff" - I'm doing what he's recommended light wise and I gotta say that there's a world of difference between this set of seedlings and the previous one. I checked on them this AM and thought, "I'm going to have to move. These guys are going to grow through the roof!"

Later gator.

 

[bruno12345]

Here is a tutorial for making a homemade PAR meter using an Android Cellphone.
Dont know how i stumbled on it, but for those who cant spend U$500,00 on a par meter, or like me, who live in countries that dont even sell those kind of meters.

Seems to give a pretty decent estimation of the PAR, so you can take the maximum of your plants.

 

[Curbcalamity]

Don't worry all videos are so much fluff I've started to skin watch normal tv as well on netflix. They give information way to slowly. Your right though it is partly gypsy magic as sometimes certain problems can Show in the same ways (even if they in practice usually don't) I've gotten to the point where I semi cowboy it these days i reckon our brain is the best computer do something enough it automatically knows. I'd love all the gadgets to see how close I am though

 

[Enjoil]

Interesting comments.

I only know him from the perspective of YouTube/growing weed/light meters. It sounds like your perspective is from the science community. My knowledge of him goes back only weeks, I suspect, unlike yours.
He's not trying to sell you a product but he is selling you a product, albeit in a very unobtrusive way. What little I know about him is that he's the founder of Apogee and he's a an acknowledged expert in cannabis horticulture. OK, I don't hold that against him.

What I do is listen to what he discussed on YouTube and that lead me to look up research papers. His research is in line with findings from other established research organizations. Everything he says is true, period.".

"often when I speak with my friends who done this longer than I've been alive they get frustrated and say I'm overthinking it. but then that's me I gotta find out for myself lol"
Each to his own, right? A lot of folks have grown a lot of weed using a variety of methods and they're OK with that. It's not that "you're finding out for yourself". It's just the opposite. Instead of trying to figure it out for yourself, you're using the facts proven by others to be beneficial.

Don't worry all videos are so much fluff I've started to skin watch normal tv as well on netflix. They give information way to slowly. Your right though it is partly gypsy magic as sometimes certain problems can Show in the same ways (even if they in practice usually don't) I've gotten to the point where I semi cowboy it these days i reckon our brain is the best computer do something enough it automatically knows. I'd love all the gadgets to see how close I am though

The gadgets are crazy! I really have no idea how they work! My pen is a super computer in my hand! Lol, how does it know the ppm of the nutrient solution by using a freaking glass ball with metal in it.! I’m guessing an apogee?? is something to see how strong and what spectrum your lights are throwing out. Ain’t all that info given by the light supplier. Ohh this is for the diy guys to check their work??? Maybe?

 

[Delps8]

The gadgets are crazy! I really have no idea how they work! My pen is a super computer in my hand! Lol, how does it know the ppm of the nutrient solution by using a freaking glass ball with metal in it.! I’m guessing an apogee?? is something to see how strong and what spectrum your lights are throwing out. Ain’t all that info given by the light supplier. Ohh this is for the diy guys to check their work??? Maybe?

TDS/EC pens check the electrical current passing that can pass through the solution. That’s very basic stuff. Light meters and spectrometers…that's voodoo!
It’s really not voodoo but, to me, it’s damned close to magic - the sensors detect photons (particles of light) landing on it. Wow.
I think the big market for Apogee is standard horticulture. Cannabis is highly illegal at the federal level. About 100 years ago they classified it up there at the top of the heap. It’s difficult and expensive to get a license to do research on it because, according to the “top men” in the Federal Government, cannabis is of no medical value (and they know this because they are “top men” - see how easy it is?).
The iPhone/Android apps (I’ve tested one on the iPhone) will get you to within a pretty good range but I wouldn’t bet my crops on it. $500 makes you and me sit up and take notice. To a commercial grower, it’s simply one of the tools that you buy.

 

[Enjoil]

TDS/EC pens check the electrical current passing that can pass through the solution. That’s very basic stuff. Light meters and spectrometers…that's voodoo!
It’s really not voodoo but, to me, it’s damned close to magic - the sensors detect photons (particles of light) landing on it. Wow.
I think the big market for Apogee is standard horticulture. Cannabis is highly illegal at the federal level. About 100 years ago they classified it up there at the top of the heap. It’s difficult and expensive to get a license to do research on it because, according to the “top men” in the Federal Government, cannabis is of no medical value (and they know this because they are “top men” - see how easy it is?).
The iPhone/Android apps (I’ve tested one on the iPhone) will get you to within a pretty good range but I wouldn’t bet my crops on it. $500 makes you and me sit up and take notice. To a commercial grower, it’s simply one of the tools that you buy.

Let’s eat a couple handfuls of mushrooms and figure this out! Nah. As long as the light makes a nugget I’m cool. I would just use the 500 for another light. Or half a light nowadays... lol. Just saying. I’m not a commercial grower tho, I wish I had a bunch of peoples money to buy equipment with, get a big ass building, set up a super hvac system and hella lights, and sell mids to the masses.

 

[Enjoil]

Studying that plant is absolutely needed but, to my way of thinking (and very limited experience), that comes in down the road to avoid or deal with nute issues, root rot, etc. That might be a numbers game for a commercial grower but there's no way to get the kind of analysis that can replace experience, knowledge, and observation all feeding into the human brain to know what to do. That's where "study the plant" really shines.
I can understand stuff like PPFD, DLI, and color spectrum because that's basic physics but being able to look at a plant and know what's causing what is equal parts knowledge, intuition, and voodoo. That's "expertise" vs what I've done which is to buy stuff, hook it up, and spin the dials to the right setting.
Both sets of skills are needed to a successful grow and, to be frank, you can get further with setting your lights "just about right" and being able to diagnose/head off issues than you can with my blinky light toys and minimal level of understanding plants. I can buy an Apogee but I can't get the knowledge that's in your head.



No es nada. I get antsy watching videos, too, even if nudity is involved.
I usually skip ahead because so much of YouTube videos are fluff. A lot of instructional videos are based on the premise of "tell em what you're going to tell 'em, tell 'em, and tell 'em what you told 'em", so it can take a long time to get to done.
I've tried listening to podcasts - that's a "no can do" for me. For me, it's me read a transcript and I'll get back to you if I have questions.

Re. "dude knows his stuff" - I'm doing what he's recommended light wise and I gotta say that there's a world of difference between this set of seedlings and the previous one. I checked on them this AM and thought, "I'm going to have to move. These guys are going to grow through the roof!"

Later gator.

I just wanted to tell you how m always here to help brother... all the knowledge (however limited it is) in my head I will share with you. If I don’t know I will try and help you figure it out or call in the big dogs! Lol

 

[Delps8]

Let’s eat a couple handfuls of mushrooms and figure this out! Nah. As long as the light makes a nugget I’m cool. I would just use the 500 for another light. Or half a light nowadays... lol. Just saying. I’m not a commercial grower tho, I wish I had a bunch of peoples money to buy equipment with, get a big ass building, set up a super hvac system and hella lights, and sell mids to the masses.

I'm with you about a bigger place to grow and stuffing with the right equipment. I have a 2 x 4 tent in an unheated garage in Southern California. Strangely enough, there's a car in the garage so I have about 18" of clear space between the car and my desk (a piece of particle board on top of a box). Now that I think about it, my total workspace is about the same size as the tent!
Yeh, the $500 price tag works out to about $1,00 per pound! Easy to work with, though. I was pleasantly surprised about prices for LED's. Especially compared to a few years back. The Mars SP 3000 is really something. Would I like another light? Sure, but I've got nowhere to use it! :-(

 

[Delps8]

I just wanted to tell you how m always here to help brother... all the knowledge (however limited it is) in my head I will share with you. If I don’t know I will try and help you figure it out or call in the big dogs! Lol

I'll take you up on that.

The grow I did a few years ago had some self-inflicted problems - I was using the wrong scale for ppm and I didn't know it till my plants let me know! That's when I learned the joys of a 35 gallon res in a 2x4 tent. Then after a power outage, I reset the time to "Random" instead of the right schedule (big fingers, little buttons). It was just for a day but the kids looked really, really bad so I bundled everything up and did a "strategic withdrawal".

Back at it now, though. I culled one seedling whose stem was so weak that it collapsed. I figure I've got 4 little beasties and, in a 2 x 4 that's about 2 too many so it will be survival of the fittest.
These are autoflowers and my knowledge, for what it's worth, is on photos so, if you're an auto flower jock, I'm all ears. Hell, just a few minutes ago I saw something about nutes that said that AF's should be noted as if they were still in veg. Hmm, who'd'a guessed that? So, yes, thanks for the offer. I'm eager to not step on my schwantz again!

 

[Curbcalamity]

bruce is president of apoee instruments but as far as I know he didn't start the company. but with his background I totally believe he, if he did found the company, did it because he wanted better measuring equipment. the other thing is his product isn't specific to any industry or anything really, they just quantum sensors, which makes me think his info is not biased. its just purely what he's discovered, never once does he tell you you should or even have to buy a light sensor.

 

[Delps8]

I think he mentioned it in one of his videos but it's their web site. Check this link. I've never looked him up till now. Wow. Yeh, he knows his stuff.
"the other thing is his product isn't specific to any industry or anything really, they just quantum sensors, which makes me think his info is not biased. its just purely what he's discovered, never once does he tell you you should or even have to buy a light sensor."
Excellent point and a good way to put it.
I saw one posting about someone who was using an Apogee sensor with a Sun System PAR meter. Great idea to make the sensor work with other displays.

[time passes]
Just found this - check out that first PAR meter!