The Mountain: Grow Support From The Over 50 Club

Marigolds. Have only bought one small pot (4" or 6") of Marigolds. Save the seeds, you`ll have `em coming out your ears for the next year. Bought that small pot of Marigolds 10 years ago, none since. Some pictures of mine in my first journal.

PS,
Grow `em every year.
 
Ricorico,
No thanks necessary. My thanks comes from others using one of my ways. Sometimes the ol` brain still works.
 
I just came in from the barn and I thought that I'd take a second to talk about my findings on my first auto grow. To bring you up to date, the grow consists of:

3 Dinafem Critical Cheese Autos
1 Canuk seeds Critical Mass Auto.
All 4 seeds germinated on March 28th. They were all planted straight into 2 Gal containers in Promix with my usual additives.
3 plants were watered with coconut milk for the first 3 weeks. Compared to my control plant the seedlings grew faster and with a generally healthier appearance. It's not enough of a result to be conclusive but it was enough for me to try it again duering my next auto grow.
All of the plants were subjected to daily shakings of about 15 minutes in length. This had a definite effect in increasing the stockiness of the plants.
I had always heard not to prune autos. I pruned 3 out of the four plants at the 3rd node and twice more there after all of the way to the beginning of flower. The third plant looked to have such a smaller yield that I pruned it also, because I like to smoke! I would say that 3 out of the four plants are now 2.5 feet tall and bigger around than a bushel basket.

Now since they were growing so well I decided to transplant. The 3 pruned autos. I have transplanted them twice and they are now in 5 gallon containers. At every transplanting I have witnessed an immediate explosion in growth. They never slowed down a bit.

I still have 3-4 weeks to go so we will see how we do. But so far I am a fan. The only down side that I have to report is that there is definitely a difference between all of the plants in smell and phenotypes. 2 more sativa like one more strongly Indica in the CCA's
 
Hello everyone and gad to see we have a community of elders here to teach us something about gardening in this franken science world it has turned into I do enjoy the ability to be able to go up the hill and ask some true old schoolers how its done but most are very conservative about their information I hope this is not the case on this mountain lol so I was wondering if anyone else here has done any research on plant obesity and defiance it seems to me a lot of the growers toay are feeding more and more burning stunting and fattening their plants with more food so is this not the same as eating Mc.Donalds for every meal every day what about all the missing elements they supposedly don't need cuz we can not see where it uses them yet it dose uptake them so there must be a use can someone comment on this or debate me on why I am wrong
 
Never thought of it that way. Good question! How much stuff can you actually feed a plant without it being negatively affected.

:Namaste:
 
Ole Festus said:
Never thought of it that way. Good question! How much stuff can you actually feed a plant without it being negatively affected.

:Namaste:
Click to expand...

well in the agro world where I got this info its not very much about 1/3 of the recommended amount of market nutes we buy for our indoor and they need more things in them to be able to proses as much as we give them hence the lock out I prefer something like earth tonic but there are so few to choose from and most are not organic at all (Like we have much to start with lol) there seems to be an ever more need to find better ways to feed or at least better food we can buy but there is not unless you do it at home your self or find supplements like the one mentioned if we are out for the best meds and results shouldn't they be getting the best food and who has this food or how do we make it and test it for quality and N_P_K where are the answers for the organic gardener in the new age hydroponic world I have been to collage both for botany and agriculture and know a lot about what plants need and where the get it from in their body from the ground and the way they use these things but how can we honestly replicate this in a closed garden only bringing in the food we make for them I am experimenting with tons of composts and products but with only my results and my control how do I prove this point well I really cant lol but I would love some like minded input
 
Hey Kilo, Actually I always harp on monitoring and getting a feel for the stages of growth that your plants are in. They require and can use differing amounts of nutrients at different stages of growth. You really can't force a plant to use more nutrients than it requires during each stage. Everything else that is applied is really just wasted money. Also the only difference in nutrients are in their availabity to plants. Remember when we are talking about N-P-K we are talking about elements and they are just that. How they are delivered and even more importantly the Timing of that delivery is what positively or negatively impacts plant growth.Nutrient availabilty is affected by the composition of the formulation and soils conditions including moisture levels and pH. Best of luck!
 
uptheholler said:
Remember when we are talking about N-P-K we are talking about elements and they are just that. How they are delivered and even more importantly the Timing of that delivery is what positively or negatively impacts plant growth.Nutrient availabilty is affected by the composition of the formulation and soils conditions including moisture levels and pH. Best of luck!
Click to expand...

so read over your whole msg a few time to figure out what this had to do with what I said (put the pipe down and focus dude says to self) lol finaly I came up with this..... As you say when we are talking about N-P-K we are strictly talking elements, but the problem I am having is we are only talking about 8 or so, being (1>H)/(5>B) / (7>N)(8>O) / (11>Na)(12>Mg)/ (19>k)(20>Ca) /if ur lucky Mn,Fe,Co,Ni,Cu,Zn,Mo depending on brand it differs what they put in.
So if elements and uptake depend on the level, rate, time, and amount and we are missing everything else (SC,Ti,V,CR,Ba,Ta and about fifty others then shouldn't we be looking into what of these things that the plant clearly uptakes in nature but has no use for, and what they really do instead of deeming them useless. perhaps we are going about the nutrient program all the wrong way in the way of looking at what makes a plant grow, instead of what it needs to grow the proper way. Could doing this unlock some genetic superpowers we never knew existed, for example did you know original pot seeds in Swaziland are colored by nature red, blue, green ,yellow and that is from where we take some of the names like (yellow/ lemon haze) if we were to provide what the plants had many many years ago before we destroyed the earth/soil we plant in, takeing all these things and super stacking N-P-K on it for years and years what could this do for our overall relationship with our plant and known strains
 
but you do have to take into conciderstion of your plants genes....
Unknown to most growers a plants genes limit what it can do depending on the stability of the strain and the cross made the plant has a threshold for production and no matter what we give them or how hard we try to make them
bigger or more crystal you can not it will only do what its genetics will allow now with this said I would also like to point out that most plants are over fed (obese) and disobedient(defiant) real plant issues both commonly unknown to the grower meaning they will never reach full potential feed less get more is my theory and with products like rock and terp you can help your plant or hinder it in many ways people need to try and understand its not always the plant needing more or not getting enough but more than needed (without burning mind you) and in doing this we get less yield and attract bugs and other disease problems because the plans tell eachother hey im fat in turn tells the bugs I taste good and the mold come leach me iv got plenty to spare this is the garden world I live in, tho some may not even think this to be true........... well jus rambling on really let me know if this helps anyone (im sure it wont hehe) and please I could use some feed back here or am I just the only one who is going about it like this and nonamaker cent
 
Subscribed, I'm over 50 but I haven't pop my cherry (seed) yet. Hopefully with in 3 months.
 
KiloEleMent said:
so read over your whole msg a few time to figure out what this had to do with what I said (put the pipe down and focus dude says to self) lol finaly I came up with this..... As you say when we are talking about N-P-K we are strictly talking elements, but the problem I am having is we are only talking about 8 or so, being (1>H)/(5>B) / (7>N)(8>O) / (11>Na)(12>Mg)/ (19>k)(20>Ca) /if ur lucky Mn,Fe,Co,Ni,Cu,Zn,Mo depending on brand it differs what they put in.
So if elements and uptake depend on the level, rate, time, and amount and we are missing everything else (SC,Ti,V,CR,Ba,Ta and about fifty others then shouldn't we be looking into what of these things that the plant clearly uptakes in nature but has no use for, and what they really do instead of deeming them useless. perhaps we are going about the nutrient program all the wrong way in the way of looking at what makes a plant grow, instead of what it needs to grow the proper way. Could doing this unlock some genetic superpowers we never knew existed, for example did you know original pot seeds in Swaziland are colored by nature red, blue, green ,yellow and that is from where we take some of the names like (yellow/ lemon haze) if we were to provide what the plants had many many years ago before we destroyed the earth/soil we plant in, takeing all these things and super stacking N-P-K on it for years and years what could this do for our overall relationship with our plant and known strains
Click to expand...

First point genetic potential is simply put the innate potential for growth, potentcy , flavor, etc. It is only effected in a negative manner by the plants environment. If you give any plant it's reasonably required nutrients and if it its void of pests, diseases and if it is allowed to complete it's growth cycle it will achieve it's genetically controlled growth potential.
There is waaaay too much misinformation in the genral public about pot as a plant. It's just a plant it is controlled by all of the same factors that come into play with my 15000 tomato plants or my 10000 muskmelon plants that i currently have in the ground. In fact it's probably the easiest plant that I grow each year.
Second point.. we haven't destroyed the quality of soils over the centuries we have demonstrably improved them. Early man used the ground up and moved on. Today through the use of scientifically proven cultural techniques such as crop rotation, the use of green and animal based manures and appropiate soil testing we work much higher quality ground than what our ancesters had to work with.
Lastly.. alot of the trace elements that you mention are used in such infintesimal amounts as to be almost neglegible in actual results.
Do micro nutrients make a difference? They sure do once you have mastered your understanding of a plants life cycle.

I would encourage every grower to try to grow one plant without ANY additional nutrients. If you use a standard commercial potting mix, ( Promix, Miracle gro , etc.) And just water with spring water , rain water or even distilled water you will find that you can grow some pretty amazing plants with nothing. Container size, quality of the light source, air flow and quality and the timing of watering has much more to do with a successful grow than what nutrients you use. Some of the best most potent pot I have smoked in my life were some of the least cared for plants grown on some of the crappiest ground. We didn't harvest alot but the stress of survival for the plant resulted in superb smoke. In closing, in over 40 years of commercially growing produce I have never had a plant grown indoors or in the field show any symptoms of Barium, vanadium or tantalum deficiency. If your goal is just to grow some weed that you can be proud of there is alot more opportunity in cultural techniques than chasing every micro nutrient. Although there are alot of fertilizer manufacturers that are making alot of money encouraging people to over use their products. Best of luck!
 
Stages ... stages ... stages.... you have to learn the stages of growth that any plant is going through at the moment and adjust your culture to those stages. When I get a chance I am going to be giving some input in getting to know any plants life cycle. By learning and then observing your plant's growth with these stages in mind , you will be able to better time your fertilizer applications, your pruning methods, your training and your flowering cycles to maximize your yields. Think about this for a moment.. have you ever fertilized a plant at one time and seen incredible results and then fertilized again a couple of weeks later and not seen much of a result?Have you ever pruned a plant and felt like you stunted it's growth? Have you ever transplanted a plant and felt like you shocked it and slowed it down?
You can learn to avoid all of these common problems.
 
uth,
Stoppin` by to check on the "Mountain", appears to be all OK. Nice and quiet. Later.
 
uptheholler said:
Stages ... stages ... stages.... you have to learn the stages of growth that any plant is going through at the moment and adjust your culture to those stages. When I get a chance I am going to be giving some input in getting to know any plants life cycle. By learning and then observing your plant's growth with these stages in mind , you will be able to better time your fertilizer applications, your pruning methods, your training and your flowering cycles to maximize your yields. Think about this for a moment.. have you ever fertilized a plant at one time and seen incredible results and then fertilized again a couple of weeks later and not seen much of a result?Have you ever pruned a plant and felt like you stunted it's growth? Have you ever transplanted a plant and felt like you shocked it and slowed it down?
You can learn to avoid all of these common problems.
Click to expand...


cant wait :thumb:
 
uptheholler said:
First point genetic potential is simply put the innate potential for growth, potentcy , flavor, etc. It is only effected in a negative manner by the plants environment. If you give any plant it's reasonably required nutrients and if it its void of pests, diseases and if it is allowed to complete it's growth cycle it will achieve it's genetically controlled growth potential.
There is waaaay too much misinformation in the genral public about pot as a plant. It's just a plant it is controlled by all of the same factors that come into play with my 15000 tomato plants or my 10000 muskmelon plants that i currently have in the ground. In fact it's probably the easiest plant that I grow each year.
Second point.. we haven't destroyed the quality of soils over the centuries we have demonstrably improved them. Early man used the ground up and moved on. Today through the use of scientifically proven cultural techniques such as crop rotation, the use of green and animal based manures and appropiate soil testing we work much higher quality ground than what our ancesters had to work with.
Lastly.. alot of the trace elements that you mention are used in such infintesimal amounts as to be almost neglegible in actual results.
Do micro nutrients make a difference? They sure do once you have mastered your understanding of a plants life cycle.

I would encourage every grower to try to grow one plant without ANY additional nutrients. If you use a standard commercial potting mix, ( Promix, Miracle gro , etc.) And just water with spring water , rain water or even distilled water you will find that you can grow some pretty amazing plants with nothing. Container size, quality of the light source, air flow and quality and the timing of watering has much more to do with a successful grow than what nutrients you use. Some of the best most potent pot I have smoked in my life were some of the least cared for plants grown on some of the crappiest ground. We didn't harvest alot but the stress of survival for the plant resulted in superb smoke. In closing, in over 40 years of commercially growing produce I have never had a plant grown indoors or in the field show any symptoms of Barium, vanadium or tantalum deficiency. If your goal is just to grow some weed that you can be proud of there is alot more opportunity in cultural techniques than chasing every micro nutrient. Although there are alot of fertilizer manufacturers that are making alot of money encouraging people to over use their products. Best of luck!
Click to expand...


you are absolutely rite doing nothing sometimes is better I have done this with great success. I am glad to hear that you are using the rotating crop method I did not put into consideration the agro testing involved these years in my first post but not everyone is doing this or lucky enough to have large plots of land, and I am sure you have never had you plants shown signs of lack in any of the elements because they are in the ground you use outside but what about hydroponics in witch is where I started with this post also as for the

quote " alot of the trace elements that you mention are used in such infintesimal amounts as to be almost neglegible in actual results.
Do micro nutrients make a difference?"

the problem I have with this is if the amount of elements was a factor then I guess we can just get rid of vanadium beings tho it is the least used element in the world ( in Amount not use), rite.? But wait without vanadium we would not have fuel for cars of anykind we would not have steel or algae some scientist believe even mammals would not have been formed without this so called useless element in its "Infintesimal amount" the world we know would not exist nor would you, so how could it possibly be any different in plants just because it is so small and so little it is hardly worth mentioning does not mean it is not one of the most important or at the least much needed

If I am wrong please correct me tis why I am here
 
Vanadoenzymes

A number of species of marine algae produce vanadium-containing vanadium bromoperoxidase as well as the closely related chloroperoxidase and iodoperoxidases. The bromoperoxidase produce an estimated 1–2 million tons of bromoform and 56,000 tons of bromomethane annually. Most naturally occurring organobromine compounds, accounting arise by the action of this enzyme. They catalyse the following reaction (R-H is hydrocarbon substrate):
R-H + Br- + H2O2 → R-Br + H2O + OH-
A vanadium nitrogenase is used by some nitrogen-fixing micro-organisms, such as Azotobacter. In this role vanadium replaces more common molybdenum or iron, and gives the nitrogenase slightly different properties.

Vanadium accumulation in tunicates and ascidians

Vanadium is essential to ascidians and tunicates, where it is stored in the highly acidified vacuoles of certain blood cell types, designated vanadocytes. Vanabins (vanadium binding proteins) have been identified in the cytoplasm of such cells. The concentration of vanadium in these ascidians' blood is up to ten million times higher than the concentration of vanadium in the seawater around them[specify], the seawater contains 1 to 2 µg/l. The function of this vanadium concentration system, and these vanadium-containing proteins, is still unknown but the vanadocytes are later deposited just under the outer surface of the tunic where their presence may deter predation.

Fungi

Several species of macrofungi, namely Amanita muscaria and related species, accumulate vanadium (up to 500 mg/kg in dry weight). Vanadium is present in the coordination complex amavadin, in fungal fruit-bodies. However, the biological importance of the accumulation process is unknown. Toxin functions or peroxidase enzyme functions have been suggested.

Mammals and birds

Deficiencies in vanadium result in reduced growth and impaired reproduction in rats and chickens.Vanadium is a relatively controversial dietary supplement, used primarily for increasing insulin sensitivity and body-building. Whether it works for the latter purpose has not been proven; some evidence suggests that athletes who take it are merely experiencing a placebo effect. Vanadyl sulfate may improve glucose control in people with type 2 diabetes. Decavanadate and oxovanadates appear to play a role in a variety of biochemical processes, such as those relating to oxidative stress.
 
KiloEleMent said:
Vanadoenzymes

A number of species of marine algae produce vanadium-containing vanadium bromoperoxidase as well as the closely related chloroperoxidase and iodoperoxidases. The bromoperoxidase produce an estimated 1–2 million tons of bromoform and 56,000 tons of bromomethane annually. Most naturally occurring organobromine compounds, accounting arise by the action of this enzyme. They catalyse the following reaction (R-H is hydrocarbon substrate):
R-H + Br- + H2O2 → R-Br + H2O + OH-
A vanadium nitrogenase is used by some nitrogen-fixing micro-organisms, such as Azotobacter. In this role vanadium replaces more common molybdenum or iron, and gives the nitrogenase slightly different properties.

Vanadium accumulation in tunicates and ascidians

Vanadium is essential to ascidians and tunicates, where it is stored in the highly acidified vacuoles of certain blood cell types, designated vanadocytes. Vanabins (vanadium binding proteins) have been identified in the cytoplasm of such cells. The concentration of vanadium in these ascidians' blood is up to ten million times higher than the concentration of vanadium in the seawater around them[specify], the seawater contains 1 to 2 µg/l. The function of this vanadium concentration system, and these vanadium-containing proteins, is still unknown but the vanadocytes are later deposited just under the outer surface of the tunic where their presence may deter predation.

Fungi

Several species of macrofungi, namely Amanita muscaria and related species, accumulate vanadium (up to 500 mg/kg in dry weight). Vanadium is present in the coordination complex amavadin, in fungal fruit-bodies. However, the biological importance of the accumulation process is unknown. Toxin functions or peroxidase enzyme functions have been suggested.

Mammals and birds

Deficiencies in vanadium result in reduced growth and impaired reproduction in rats and chickens.Vanadium is a relatively controversial dietary supplement, used primarily for increasing insulin sensitivity and body-building. Whether it works for the latter purpose has not been proven; some evidence suggests that athletes who take it are merely experiencing a placebo effect. Vanadyl sulfate may improve glucose control in people with type 2 diabetes. Decavanadate and oxovanadates appear to play a role in a variety of biochemical processes, such as those relating to oxidative stress.
Click to expand...


However I can now see this is something I am going to have to research and figure out for myself with the help of a few friends with nice toys because just one has been able to even understand what I am proposing so I thankyou all for your helpful and insiteful comments and I cant wait to see what else I can learn here but I feel this conversation has met its limit before it gets dumb and or repetitive @uptheholler I cant wait for you to post your knowlage on the life cycle of the plant this should be very intriguing and help me along with my question and research further
 

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