When to up pot

[stickygreen420]

Im growing with soil and megacrop as ferilizer.

My plants always significantly slow down growth even tho the root system doesnt look very ready to up pot.

I saturate with water and 24h later they'll be almost dry,

Can you guys post pics of your root balls when you up pot? How dense do they get?

It seems that plants slow down growth a lot even tho they still havent taken up all the space, but when i up pot they start growing fast again.

Im outdoors

 

[SmokingWings]

Can you guys post pics of your root balls when you up pot? How dense do they get?

Best thing to do is start going through any msg that sounds like it might be a similar problem or situation as yours. Eventually you will find one or two of the group who had a photo of the root mass handy. Or, wait and hopefully someone will show up with a photo of one of their plants. Thing is, most people do not take photos of the roots when they transplant.

I saturate with water and 24h later they'll be almost dry,

That is a give-away classic sign of a plant that has become root-bound. However, if you are reasonably sure that the plant is not yet root-bound then there is another possible reason for the conditions you are describing.

Soil drying out fast like you mention, even shortly after a transplant and/or the plant slowing down soon after a transplant, are signs that the soil has gotten drier than it should have somewhere along the way. The name is "hydrophobic", as in the soil has developed what looks like a phobia or fear of water. It has something to do with the surface tension of the water and the way it interacts with the soil.

The drier the soil gets the more likely it becomes that it will take a long, slow watering session, sometimes over several hours, to saturate the soil once again so it is properly moist.

Put the plant in a saucer or tray or something that will hold the run off water. Slowly pour some water over the top of the soil. Use just enough that it just barely comes out any drain holes in the bottom of the soil. Come back 20 minutes, up to 45 minutes later, and pour the same amount of water on the top. If it takes that water and does not have any run-though into the sauce then it is a really good probability that the soil was overly dry. Keep at it since it could take several sessions of pouring water to get the soil saturated again.

Soil in a container outdoors can dry out really fast, especially if the plant is getting some size to it. The plant is constantly transpiring water which is the name for drawing drawing water up from the soil and pushing it out through the leaves. At the same time the sun is causing water to evaporate off the surface of the water. Add in the almost constant winds or light breezes that speed up the evaporation and transpiration.

I have had this 'hydrophobic soil happen sooner when I filled a container up with soil right from the garden area than when I used the same garden soil but mixed in peat moss and Perlite.

Something to think about.

 

[stickygreen420]

Best thing to do is start going through any msg that sounds like it might be a similar problem or situation as yours. Eventually you will find one or two of the group who had a photo of the root mass handy. Or, wait and hopefully someone will show up with a photo of one of their plants. Thing is, most people do not take photos of the roots when they transplant.


That is a give-away classic sign of a plant that has become root-bound. However, if you are reasonably sure that the plant is not yet root-bound then there is another possible reason for the conditions you are describing.

Soil drying out fast like you mention, even shortly after a transplant and/or the plant slowing down soon after a transplant, are signs that the soil has gotten drier than it should have somewhere along the way. The name is "hydrophobic", as in the soil has developed what looks like a phobia or fear of water. It has something to do with the surface tension of the water and the way it interacts with the soil.

The drier the soil gets the more likely it becomes that it will take a long, slow watering session, sometimes over several hours, to saturate the soil once again so it is properly moist.

Put the plant in a saucer or tray or something that will hold the run off water. Slowly pour some water over the top of the soil. Use just enough that it just barely comes out any drain holes in the bottom of the soil. Come back 20 minutes, up to 45 minutes later, and pour the same amount of water on the top. If it takes that water and does not have any run-though into the sauce then it is a really good probability that the soil was overly dry. Keep at it since it could take several sessions of pouring water to get the soil saturated again.

Soil in a container outdoors can dry out really fast, especially if the plant is getting some size to it. The plant is constantly transpiring water which is the name for drawing drawing water up from the soil and pushing it out through the leaves. At the same time the sun is causing water to evaporate off the surface of the water. Add in the almost constant winds or light breezes that speed up the evaporation and transpiration.

I have had this 'hydrophobic soil happen sooner when I filled a container up with soil right from the garden area than when I used the same garden soil but mixed in peat moss and Perlite.

Something to think about.

That's definitely not the case here, my soil is soaking up good and holding as much water as it should (i weigh my pots to determine when they're dry and wet)

Can a picture of the rootball help? You said if im reasonably sure it's not rootbound, well to be honest i ain't!

 

[Emilya Green]

what is your cycling time between waterings? How often are you watering? May we see a picture of the plant, please?

 

[Bill284]

Im growing with soil and 420 as ferilizer.

My plants always significantly slow down growth even tho the root system doesnt look very ready to up pot.

I saturate with water and 24h later they'll be almost dry,

Can you guys post pics of your root balls when you up pot? How dense do they get?

It seems that plants slow down growth a lot even tho they still havent taken up all the space, but when i up pot they start growing fast again.

Im outdoors

Good morning @stickygreen420 hope your having a nice day.
In my Gorilla Glue clone thread there is a pictorial on how to uppot plants.
But you should have the pot full of roots before going bigger.
You might be watering too often causing slow growth.
Have you read Emilya's watering thread in her signature?
It will help you immensely.
Here I'll just grab it and post it here incase your not sure which one it is.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/proper-way-water-potted-plant.266274/

Stay safe
Bill

 

[stickygreen420]

Good morning @stickygreen420 hope your having a nice day.
In my Gorilla Glue clone thread there is a pictorial on how to uppot plants.
But you should have the pot full of roots before going bigger.
You might be watering too often causing slow growth.
Have you read Emilya's watering thread in her signature?
It will help you immensely.
Here I'll just grab it and post it here incase your not sure which one it is.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/proper-way-water-potted-plant.266274/

Stay safe
Bill

im not overwatering

 

[stickygreen420]

what is your cycling time between waterings? How often are you watering? May we see a picture of the plant, please?

every 24h ish which is around the time they take to dry

 

[Emilya Green]

im not overwatering

yes you are. You are overwatering by watering too often. You may even think you are smartly limiting the amount of water you are giving each time, purposely not watering to runoff. These plants do not need water every 24 hours. You are not allowing the container to dry all the way to the bottom and your lower roots are atrophying. You can confirm that in your pictures that show sick roots and a severe lack of them, in the bottom inch of your container. The roots sitting in the bottom are seen to be thinner and even a different color than the healthier roots above them. They are sick because they are under water all of the time and they have not been able to get a hit of oxygen for a long time.

After you water, the water not sucked up by the plant falls to the bottom of the container. With your sickly roots it might take a week to drain that water. You are obviously checking the top of the container to see if the soil is dry. Yes, it is dry up there after a day or so, because gravity works. So when you come along and water again to runoff, you fill that lake sitting in the bottom, all the way to the top again, and the bottom never dries out. This is your only problem as far as I can see. You are definitely an overwaterer. Sorry.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Looks like fairly small root growth for that size plant.
I personally do exactly the opposite of what everyone here will probably suggest.
I get my seedlings into their final pot by about day 10.
For me thats 20-25 gallon fabric pot.
Whatever size you use the key to strong fast root growth is oxygen and enough phosphorus and potassium.
Make sure your soil is properly aerated, oxygenate your water if you can, use fabric pots.
In a proper well aerated soil you keep it moist at all times, and if you oxygenate your water then the roots get a constant supply of fresh oxygen.
And fast root growth.
Soil thats not properly aerated can either stay wet way too long causing anaerobic conditions and rot, stunted growth, or if you let it dry out too long you kill off root hairs and tips.

I assume you're bottle feeding, your best bet if thats the way your going is to grow in about a 5 gal fabric pot of quality coco.
Maybe add a little biochar and pumice and water it everyday with 1/4 strength nutrients, the coco and daily watering will give you fast root growth, virtually no chance of overwatering.

 

[stickygreen420]

yes you are. You are overwatering by watering too often. You may even think you are smartly limiting the amount of water you are giving each time, purposely not watering to runoff. These plants do not need water every 24 hours. You are not allowing the container to dry all the way to the bottom and your lower roots are atrophying. You can confirm that in your pictures that show sick roots and a severe lack of them, in the bottom inch of your container. The roots sitting in the bottom are seen to be thinner and even a different color than the healthier roots above them. They are sick because they are under water all of the time and they have not been able to get a hit of oxygen for a long time.

After you water, the water not sucked up by the plant falls to the bottom of the container. With your sickly roots it might take a week to drain that water. You are obviously checking the top of the container to see if the soil is dry. Yes, it is dry up there after a day or so, because gravity works. So when you come along and water again to runoff, you fill that lake sitting in the bottom, all the way to the top again, and the bottom never dries out. This is your only problem as far as I can see. You are definitely an overwaterer. Sorry.

Quite the opposite! I've been watering with your method for 2 years. I saturate the soil and 24h laters it's dry. I know that because i weigh the pot and after 24h the soil is bone dry, if i go any longer the entire plant will wilt, and the pots will not lose any more weight, and if i take the root ball out everything is really dry. Mind you its 33c during the day here

 

[Emilya Green]

Quite the opposite! I've been watering with your method for 2 years. I saturate the soil and 24h laters it's dry. I know that because i weigh the pot and after 24h the soil is bone dry, if i go any longer the entire plant will wilt, and the pots will not lose any more weight, and if i take the root ball out everything is really dry. Mind you its 33c during the day here

why are your lower roots dead then? Your pictures tell the whole story. Compare the weight you are getting with that of a similar container filled with DRY soil... are you really going dry according to that comparison? It is nearly that hot here in Missouri now on most days and even hotter as summer approaches, and still I don't ever see a 24 hour turnaround.

I suspect that your plants wilt once the water table falls below the top spreader roots, which are probably the only roots active in your container, while there is still a lot of water left in the bottom of the container. The wilt is not always the best way to tell if they need water. Where exactly is the soil bone dry? Are you just checking the top or going by what you can see?

Let's check to see if you have been actually using my method. When you first put them in these containers, assuming you uppotted from solo cups, how long were you waiting between waterings then? It typically takes 7 days or more in a new container. Did you ever wait that long? Did you see the interval between waterings diminish each cycle till you finally got to where you are today? And lastly, my method calls for an uppotting as soon as the roots are strong enough to drain the container in 48 hours or less... and it seems you are ignoring that advice, probably for good reason.

Lastly, just to check, are you watering from the top or are you submerging these plants or bottom watering them?

 

[Nunyabiz]

If the plant stays in that cooler all the time then you're likely getting wet feet.
The top half or more could be dry and very bottom in an anaerobic environment killing off the bottom roots.
Either way its way too small a pot for that size plant.
Id transplant to a 4-5 gallon fabric pot full of coco and water daily.

 

[stickygreen420]

why are your lower roots dead then? Your pictures tell the whole story. Compare the weight you are getting with that of a similar container filled with DRY soil... are you really going dry according to that comparison? It is nearly that hot here in Missouri now on most days and even hotter as summer approaches, and still I don't ever see a 24 hour turnaround.

I suspect that your plants wilt once the water table falls below the top spreader roots, which are probably the only roots active in your container, while there is still a lot of water left in the bottom of the container. The wilt is not always the best way to tell if they need water. Where exactly is the soil bone dry? Are you just checking the top or going by what you can see?

Let's check to see if you have been actually using my method. When you first put them in these containers, assuming you uppotted from solo cups, how long were you waiting between waterings then? It typically takes 7 days or more in a new container. Did you ever wait that long? Did you see the interval between waterings diminish each cycle till you finally got to where you are today? And lastly, my method calls for an uppotting as soon as the roots are strong enough to drain the container in 48 hours or less... and it seems you are ignoring that advice, probably for good reason.

Lastly, just to check, are you watering from the top or are you submerging these plants or bottom watering them?

So, i started off the plants in these pots, they're not much bigger than solo cups, and yes, at the beginning i waited a lot between waterings, after the seedlings became strong i stopped spraying water and started saturating the entire pots, and waiting until they're pretty dry to water again ( up to a week)


I water em from the top, slowly to make the soil soak up good, with a good amount of runoff

 

[stickygreen420]

Looks like fairly small root growth for that size plant.
I personally do exactly the opposite of what everyone here will probably suggest.
I get my seedlings into their final pot by about day 10.
For me thats 20-25 gallon fabric pot.
Whatever size you use the key to strong fast root growth is oxygen and enough phosphorus and potassium.
Make sure your soil is properly aerated, oxygenate your water if you can, use fabric pots.
In a proper well aerated soil you keep it moist at all times, and if you oxygenate your water then the roots get a constant supply of fresh oxygen.
And fast root growth.
Soil thats not properly aerated can either stay wet way too long causing anaerobic conditions and rot, stunted growth, or if you let it dry out too long you kill off root hairs and tips.

I assume you're bottle feeding, your best bet if thats the way your going is to grow in about a 5 gal fabric pot of quality coco.
Maybe add a little biochar and pumice and water it everyday with 1/4 strength nutrients, the coco and daily watering will give you fast root growth, virtually no chance of overwatering.

Even when I get to 5gal pots, and get big yields, big healthy plants, the root system is always a joke, barely developed not filling out the container properly
I always use fabric pots exepxt for the start bc they dont make em that small

When i up pot they're going in fabric

How do you "oxygenate water" ?

 

[stickygreen420]

If the plant stays in that cooler all the time then you're likely getting wet feet.
The top half or more could be dry and very bottom in an anaerobic environment killing off the bottom roots.
Either way its way too small a pot for that size plant.
Id transplant to a 4-5 gallon fabric pot full of coco and water daily.

That's Celsius.

It's weird my plant isn't getting enough oxygen, i used a lot of perlite too, can't put more because then I'll need to water way too often

Im gonna go to a 3 gal first then 7 gal.

20-25 gal you use????? Damn !!

First off, how much do you harvest per plant with a 20-25 gal pot?

On a good harvest I'll pull 300g of dry bud from a 5 gal container, is it possible to get much more than that in 5 gal soil?

I think I'm limited by weather i plant around end of april- beginning of may.


And the plants are ready to harvest at the beginning of November when it starts to get very cold, i think my limiting factor here might be the time?

 

[Bill284]

Even when I get to 5gal pots, and get big yields, big healthy plants, the root system is always a joke, barely developed not filling out the container properly
I always use fabric pots exepxt for the start bc they dont make em that small

When i up pot they're going in fabric

How do you "oxygenate water" ?

Good morning Sticky hope you are well my friend.
I had an air pump with a stone in my 100L feed tank.
I only turned it on when watering to add oxygen to the water.

That's Celsius.

It's weird my plant isn't getting enough oxygen, i used a lot of perlite too, can't put more because then I'll need to water way too often

Im gonna go to a 3 gal first then 7 gal.

20-25 gal you use????? Damn !!

First off, how much do you harvest per plant with a 20-25 gal pot?

On a good harvest I'll pull 300g of dry bud from a 5 gal container, is it possible to get much more than that in 5 gal soil?

I think I'm limited by weather i plant around end of april- beginning of may.


And the plants are ready to harvest at the beginning of November when it starts to get very cold, i think my limiting factor here might be the time?

Your harvest per pot re size will be influenced by veg time and training.
You could get a pound from a 5 gal or 4 ounces.
No one can estimate with out all the factors included.
If you want big plants fast without all the soil watering issues coco is the way to go.
Feed every day and watch her grow, literally watch the growth.
It's fantastic if you can feed every day.
Just 2 cents.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[stickygreen420]

Good morning Sticky hope you are well my friend.
I had an air pump with a stone in my 100L feed tank.
I only turned it on when watering to add oxygen to the water.

Your harvest per pot re size will be influenced by veg time and training.
You could get a pound from a 5 gal or 4 ounces.
No one can estimate with out all the factors included.
If you want big plants fast without all the soil watering issues coco is the way to go.
Feed every day and watch her grow, literally watch the growth.
It's fantastic if you can feed every day.
Just 2 cents.

Stay safe
Bill

i'm not too familiar with coco, what are the main differences?

watering everyday sounds like a pain tho. with soil in big pots they can go a few day's without watering

 

[stickygreen420]

so it's been around 24h since my last feeding and i just checked my pots and they're bone dry - to prove weigh the pot and i'm not gonna water until evening, they're barely gonna lose any weight at this point bc there is pretty much no water left, i'll update in the evening @Emilya

 

[Bill284]

i'm not too familiar with coco, what are the main differences?

watering everyday sounds like a pain tho. with soil in big pots they can go a few day's without watering

If you don't have the time then it's not an option.
There is no guessing like soil.
You just feed nutrients every day.
Move work but faster growth.
Just stick with soil.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Emilya Green]

So, i started off the plants in these pots, they're not much bigger than solo cups, and yes, at the beginning i waited a lot between waterings, after the seedlings became strong i stopped spraying water and started saturating the entire pots, and waiting until they're pretty dry to water again ( up to a week)


I water em from the top, slowly to make the soil soak up good, with a good amount of runoff

It sounds like you just need to put them into larger pots then. It sounds like you are doing everything my method calls for except the uppotting when the roots get strong enough to drain the pot in 48 hours or less.