Who had had acidic problems with FFOF and found a better soil?

[fanleaf]

I'm done with FFOF. First grow with it and done. Acidic no matter what I do. Distilled water/dolomite/pelletized lime the whole works and I'm tired of fighting low ph. Anyone else that had that exact issue and found a good soil that does not do that to you? Again, looking for someone who has had the same exact thing happen and got lockout due to low ph even when your feeding and watering at 6.8-7.

What did you find and did it totally take care of the issue? I want to continue growing in soil and I'm not wanting to go all organic. Just looking for a really good soil that won't do this crap to me anymore.
Thanks.

 

[Marzbadrock]

If you want to use synthetic fertilizer then use coco or go hydro, if you want organic soil then use organic fertilizer and do NOT ph. All ffof with no ph and organic nutes.

 

[Marzbadrock]

If you get a soil probe for ph you can watch how ffof works, it will drop to 4.8 when wet and will gradually climb up to 7.0 as it drieas, this is benificial allowing the plant to pick up a wide range of nutrients

 

[fanleaf]

If you get a soil probe for ph you can watch how ffof works, it will drop to 4.8 when wet and will gradually climb up to 7.0 as it drieas, this is benificial allowing the plant to pick up a wide range of nutrients

I will check that out for sure. Thanks

 

[fanleaf]

I would love to go all organic for sure but I know nothing about it and to be honest I have this picture in my head that I have to track down 100 different things from 50 different places and then figure out mixing and what not. I am probably way off but that's what I imagine. I would like to know more if it's easier than that lol.

 

[jojo677]

I can say I had the same exact issues as you did with FFOF! I tried the whole flushing and dolomite lime, etc with no luck. Terrible looking plants and a poor yield, unfortunately. I then switched to peat/perlite and didn't like it too much more. I think it could have used a wetting agent though. Many have good luck with ProMix. Some use it as-is, but I'd recommend adding some perlite (maybe 25%). Don't add lime! Most of these "soil" mixes are actually considered *soiless* mixes and should be run closer to hydro pH ranges. I had good luck with 5.9-6.2 pH.

I then switched to a passive hydro Hempy mix (75% perlite, 25% vermiculite) with awesome results. Now I'm going to just perlite. It's simple, though not organic. I like that whatever my pH is going in is my pH coming out! You basically get the same thing with rockwool, coco, and mediums like that.

There are so many options!

 

[ultraduster]

Being in the same boat, I think I will be switching to DWC next grow. I feel that you have much more control with it than soil. Because I dont think we can control the soil ph as well as we would like, like you can with the water in DWC. But I am honestly not sure how you will be able to deal with your water ph buffer problem. Fortunately I don't have to deal with that =\.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

If you get a soil probe for ph you can watch how ffof works, it will drop to 4.8 when wet and will gradually climb up to 7.0 as it drieas, this is benificial allowing the plant to pick up a wide range of nutrients

It is very good point even i myself have observed this...

It is the PH value of the soil/compost which is the important factor & not the nutrient solution !


The funny thing is that their is some mass misconception of PH correcting nutrient solutions for soil/compost grows this is mainly from hydroponic water based systems & inert growing mediums the two should not be confused.

By trade i work in horticulture for some 20 years & looked after all sorts of plants including feeding them in soil... i've never PH corrected any liquid nutrients in my entire life, i mean how do you feed a house plant or veggies grown in the back garden or many millions of people doing so ? very sure that is not all PH corrected either... How do granule ferts work etc !

Do you think farmers PH correct their water for irrigating fields ?

Do out door growers of mj ph correct their water or nutrients ?



Mj just another plant at the end of the day to me it is just understanding best conditions to grow in, ye i've used organic nutrients i've observed the buffer effect after watering with nutrients & some 24 hours later it returns to normal levels of expected ph value of the soil/compost.

I use salt based or synthetic nutrients now not even bothered checking ph or what ever & do just fine as i understand the ph buffering effect of soil/compost.

The only time the soil/compost ph may change is mid to late flowering & the increase of nutrients which are largely acidic by nature by the way

 

[Dave Groomer]

I use FFOF, but not straight. I mix it with Promix BX and Perlite. FFOF alone I found to be too hot for my young plants. But mixing in a 1 to 1 to 1 ratio I haven't had any problems. My PH has been fine.

 

[fanleaf]

I use FFOF, but not straight. I mix it with Promix BX and Perlite. FFOF alone I found to be too hot for my young plants. But mixing in a 1 to 1 to 1 ratio I haven't had any problems. My PH has been fine.

I just started a Norther Lights seedling as well as another AK-47 and I decided I'm going to try FFOF one more time. This time I added 30% perlite along with some dolomite and granular lime for further down the road. I just wonder if my initial newb over watering along with not the best drainage may have caused some early and faster break down of some of the pete moss in the FFOF and therefore made the pot acidic. Is that a possibility?

 

[fanleaf]

It is very good point even i myself have observed this...

It is the PH value of the soil/compost which is the important factor & not the nutrient solution !


The funny thing is that their is some mass misconception of PH correcting nutrient solutions for soil/compost grows this is mainly from hydroponic water based systems & inert growing mediums the two should not be confused.

By trade i work in horticulture for some 20 years & looked after all sorts of plants including feeding them in soil... i've never PH corrected any liquid nutrients in my entire life, i mean how do you feed a house plant or veggies grown in the back garden or many millions of people doing so ? very sure that is not all PH corrected either... How do granule ferts work etc !

Do you think farmers PH correct their water for irrigating fields ?

Do out door growers of mj ph correct their water or nutrients ?



Mj just another plant at the end of the day to me it is just understanding best conditions to grow in, ye i've used organic nutrients i've observed the buffer effect after watering with nutrients & some 24 hours later it returns to normal levels of expected ph value of the soil/compost.

I use salt based or synthetic nutrients now not even bothered checking ph or what ever & do just fine as i understand the ph buffering effect of soil/compost.

The only time the soil/compost ph may change is mid to late flowering & the increase of nutrients which are largely acidic by nature by the way

Not at all saying you are wrong however many many farmers around me including family farmers here do in fact adjust soil. Even large fields. Huge loads of lime to sweeten and bring ph up.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Not at all saying you are wrong however many many farmers around me including family farmers here do in fact adjust soil. Even large fields. Huge loads of lime to sweeten and bring ph up.

That is because the soil PH level is the important factor in growing to make macro/micro nutrients available for the plants to use.

Lime or the use of dolomite lime in general buffers the soil to about PH 7 & most plants are quite happy growing between PH 6 to PH 7 on average, providing your soil or compost mix is between PH 6 & 7 you should be fine.

I'm pretty sure farmers don't PH correct water to irrigate their fields a tad bit unpractical & some what costly exercise to make what nutrients or ferts used available for the plants !


You may find a little time yourself to ask them about the subject at hand & may guide you in the knowledge you seek


Growing Mj indoors or out doors to any or most other plants all works on the same principle.


The only time PH corrected nutrients are used is for water based hydroponic systems either with or with out inert growing mediums such as perlite, clay pebble stuff, rock wool plus others etc as the water is the holder of nutrients and main system of delivery of nutrients the inert mediums are in general PH neutral / inert & offer no real chemistry reactions with the nutrients used.

As for soil /compost blends it is really down to correct PH level to make the nutrients available as their is some form of chemistry with PH levels making nutrients available for the plant to use & that would be very hard for me to explain.

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Oh by the way if the farmers in your area are applying lime it may suggest your local soil is acidic in nature, that is another question ya ask them if you like

Also lime application rate may change depending on structure of soil like clay based, sandy, silty or a combination of these which may form a loam a soil type...


Ye ya local farmers will love you when ya start picking there brains for info

 

[fanleaf]

Hey Fuzzy
I stuck my soil ph probe down in the soil while pretty dry 1st. So I know this is wrong but it read 7.0. So I did as the probe directions say and well watered the soil because my plant needed it anyways. went straight to 5.3-5.5 depending on how far I stuck the probe in (its a 5 inch probe). What does that tell you? I'm interested in what your take is on that. Me, a newb looking at that think uh oh, this is quite low and is why I keep having mag uptake issues. I bubbled a gallon of 15% tap water and 85% distilled with some calmag (my tap buffers at 8.2 very well) But with 15% tap 85% distilled and a tsp of calmag the ph was 7.4.. So I watered the plant with that and after a bit stuck the probe in again and got a solid 6.8 reading about everywhere. So if I take what you said previously correctly as the soil dries my soil ph may climb a bit correct? This watering is the highest ph I've given her.
Do you think I'm messing things up? Because I'm fighting to get the plant Mag for a while now. Thanks

 

[fanleaf]

Hey Fuzzy
I stuck my soil ph probe down in the soil while pretty dry 1st. So I know this is wrong but it read 7.0. So I did as the probe directions say and well watered the soil because my plant needed it anyways. went straight to 5.3-5.5 depending on how far I stuck the probe in (its a 5 inch probe). What does that tell you? I'm interested in what your take is on that. Me, a newb looking at that think uh oh, this is quite low and is why I keep having mag uptake issues. I bubbled a gallon of 15% tap water and 85% distilled with some calmag (my tap buffers at 8.2 very well) But with 15% tap 85% distilled and a tsp of calmag the ph was 7.4.. So I watered the plant with that and after a bit stuck the probe in again and got a solid 6.8 reading about everywhere. So if I take what you said previously correctly as the soil dries my soil ph may climb a bit correct? This watering is the highest ph I've given her.
Do you think I'm messing things up? Because I'm fighting to get the plant Mag for a while now. Thanks

UPDATE:
11 hours have passed since I did this and I have to say, without a doubt my plant looks soooo much better, leaves are standing at attention and right before lights out I took a tape measure to her. She grew 3/4 of an inch taller from lights on today. She hasn't had a spurt like that in a while now. I tested soil ph again with the probe right before lights out. It was 6.7. She finally looks a lot more uniform in color. I think shes getting her nutes and much needed mag now.
Shes at 17 inches tall and 33 inches wide with 14 tops getting good light!

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Excellent bit of home work & ya just observed the PH buffering effect of soil

Now Ph general drops after feeding with nutrients & over a period of time like 6, 12 to 24 hours the Ph value will buffer back towards the Ph value of the compost & you may get different readings per check.

Now you might think a drop of Ph as low as mention would be bad but in the short term it is really nothing to worry about but in the long term like days or weeks would mean lock outs of nutrients.


I would more than likely not worry to much about the Ph value of water for soil growing providing the Ph value of the compost/soil blend is buffering back to a normal level of between Ph 6 & 7 with in 24 hours you should be just fine

Perhaps in mid to late flowering Ph may change towards an acidic nature which is more likely a result of increased nutrients used & the build of salts with in the growing medium but can be tamed by various methods.



Well ye i've been here on forums for nearly 4 years minus a couple months tho & some of this stuff i've talked about go's back a few years when i tested the buffering effect myself once observed over a few grows i've never changed my mind... i just use water straight out the tap mix up nutrients and feed totally untested !

My own water varies in Ph between 6 & 7 most of the time depending on time of year or if drought is problem & source of water derived from the ppm level is often around 500ppm most of time.

I do alright when growing myself with this...


I just think people are slightly a bit paranoid about this sort of stuff or blinded by the so called science & the decades of misconceptions or barriers one must break through to grow mj when it is really quite easy