Why cut nutes?

[neon green]

Never really understood the logic behind going anything but full strength on your nutes. Any evidence you should do anything but full strength? Science? Or is I just an emotional thing? Nite company's spend thousands if not 10s of thousands on chemists and botanists to formulate thier blends, but common practice is to cut that in half for healthy plants. Anything to back these claims up?

 

[Spitz]

They are in the business of selling nutrients. The more you use, the more they sell. Much like big banks, oil, pharma, etc... it's a business. Try the recommended dosage. I bet it will be too much. Those damn capitalists and their efforts to make a profit in a free market! How dare they?

 

[Sascwatch]

I know my plants get burnt to a crisp by an abundance of fertilizers if I run anything over 60% strength. Over feeding one nutrient causes another to be locked out as well. Also if I defer from my regular feed/water/feed/water schedule and feed 2 times in a row they get burnt tips. More food isn't always better.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Basically, everyone burns their plants to a crisp when they go full strength. Why the companies do it this way is beyond me. I mean- they could just water the stuff down and make even more money. And crisped plants aren't exactly a great selling point for the product.

 

[neon green]

So far there isn't any science. I've always ran full strength with additives up to 5 tablespoons of mpk per gal a 0-54-32 powder, I've never burnt a plant. If your burning your plants I'd like to see some type of science. I've googled and googled I can't find any FACTS as to why.

 

[MassMedMan]

Same reason I change my oil at 5-6000 miles instead of 3000. I'm thrifty, and they're in the business of making money, I'm in the business of keeping mine

No seriously, what the others said. Even when I do the laundry I never pour the amount on the cup, usually half. I tend to think less is more I guess.

Good luck...

 

[MassMedMan]

So far there isn't any science. I've always ran full strength with additives up to 5 tablespoons of mpk per gal a 0-54-32 powder, I've never burnt a plant. If your burning your plants I'd like to see some type of science. I've googled and googled I can't find any FACTS as to why.

I think if everything is dialed in and the environment is right you can go full strength. I've run House and Garden and I pushed it, with advice,, and I'd do it again.

I think timing is key. Overload a young plant and you're stuck in veg figuring it out. I think most tend to go full strength and more with mature plants, strains they know, is my short answer(s)

 

[DRM Ranch]

In the first place nutrient lines tend to create their fertilizers with vastly different quantities of macro/micronutrients.

Each breaks up their complete line in slightly or greatly different ways.

Unless you are growing the same plant that the suggested feeding rate was developed from, under the same exacting environment I doubt you will find great results.

If you get good results at full strength, great. I get great results at far below full strength.

In my research I've found that most growers who are doing really well and back up their claims with pictures use anywhere from 25-50% strength nutrients. And few of these people use a line exclusively.

The fact is some cannabis plants are not going to do well on a cookie cutter formula.

It is always easier to fix a deficiency than to fix an excess.

Blessed be

 

[neon green]

As a mechanic I love the oil change reference. You wouldn't cut you oil with something cheaper? Or half the capacity of your oil system? Those greedy oil company's lol. Please know I'm not attacking its kind of hard to tell emotion in a media like this. Still searching though. I'll continue to crawl through the interwebs.

 

[Qapla]

So far there isn't any science. I've always ran full strength with additives up to 5 tablespoons of mpk per gal a 0-54-32 powder, I've never burnt a plant. If your burning your plants I'd like to see some type of science. I've googled and googled I can't find any FACTS as to why.

There's lots of science on it. Google "plant nutrient burn osmotic".

 

[neon green]

I went through the top 5 results. One even had the "magnifying glass effect" when splashed water gets on a leaf and the "light" burns it.... That been disproven over and over and it still gets regurgitated. No disrespect to you but I really don't think ANY research has been done outside of the nutrient labs on the actual concentration of nutrient solution. I think it may be lime the old cheech and chong movie where its recommended he pee on an almost fully mature budding female plant. I think some stoner said " hey man............ Lets cut our nutes in half......... And see what happens." Well they didn't die and it continues to be a thing. I'd love to do a side by side but don't have the time. Patients need meds. Also I've ran full strength or better without a ph or ec meter for 4 years with only slight problems. I'm guessing most lines ph balance and ratios of micro and macro nutes come out properly. That's all I can come to at this point. I don't have any proof this happens but just what I've noticed.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm guessing most lines ph balance and ratios of micro and macro nutes come out properly.

Sounds like heaven, or at least an alternate universe.


Edit. -Sorry, kind of a flip answer. In my experience though almost all nutes, including all the bottled ones I've used over the last ten years or so, are acidic. If you're growing in soil, which has excellent buffering capabilities, you don't need to adjust ph. Any sort of soilless or hydro- you absolutely do. PH has been the thing that's caused me the most trouble, growing in soilless. It has to be in the correct range. It's inescapable.
People love to overfeed. It's kind of a natural instinct. I don't see people naturally wanting to cut the nute levels in half. It's something they get forced into doing after burning their plants. Different strains/situations have different needs and feeding habits. And some people do seem to get away with feeding their plants at 1500 ppm and higher. Myself I could never get past 1200 without getting toxic salt levels building up in the leaves and drying them to a crisp. And that's still below the 'recommended' feeding levels of the nutes I'm using.

 

[OldMedUser]

So far there isn't any science. I've always ran full strength with additives up to 5 tablespoons of mpk per gal a 0-54-32 powder, I've never burnt a plant. If your burning your plants I'd like to see some type of science. I've googled and googled I can't find any FACTS as to why.

So you manage to grow decent pot with a very high dose of very strong fertilizer that contains no Nitrogen?

I'm calling shenanigans on that.

 

[Qapla]

No disrespect taken. This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but a fairly informative article none the less.
Osmosis and Plant Nutrition

Can't comment to the self balancing nutrients. Basic fact is, different plants need different concentrations. I would imagine soil is much more forgiving as far as concentration range tolerance. Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to say, just trying to help.

Edit: One more, this one is for wheat and peas, but references research.
The effect of salinity on plant available water

 

[neon green]

So you manage to grow decent pot with a very high dose of very strong fertilizer that contains no Nitrogen?

I'm calling shenanigans on that.

I never said the mpk was a stand alone. Its a more pure form of most all mid/late flower bloom boosters areat a quarter the cost, those pesky capitalists. That's with full strength base nutes and up to 5 tablespoons of mpk in coo with no ph check, or ec. You welcome to stop by at any time to enjoy a bowl.
grownat least 10 different strains over the few years I've been around and the ph pen turned my grows into a nightmare. I think my drill sgt said it best " if all else fails, READ THE DAM BOX PRIVATE". Its mind blowing to me that we would know better than someone that does this for a living.

 

[neon green]

No disrespect taken. This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but a fairly informative article none the less.
Osmosis and Plant Nutrition

very aware of the basics of plant feeding and effect of salt on a plant. It still to me anyway doesn't explain the lets cut my nutes train of thought. Not all nutes are salt based anyway. Cyco, green planet, both very good nutrients...... Ran at full strength. As I troll this forum I se deficiency after deficiency. Does it have to do with bad advice? I would hope we wouldn't be sabotaging our fellow growers that way so we would need a forum to turn to for help. By the by I run coco and my ph comes out decent enough for my lady's. Only did one soil grow. Hated it.

 

[VladimirPutin]

They are in the business of selling nutrients. The more you use, the more they sell. Much like big banks, oil, pharma, etc... it's a business. Try the recommended dosage. I bet it will be too much. Those damn capitalists and their efforts to make a profit in a free market! How dare they?

So far there isn't any science. I've always ran full strength with additives up to 5 tablespoons of mpk per gal a 0-54-32 powder, I've never burnt a plant. If your burning your plants I'd like to see some type of science. I've googled and googled I can't find any FACTS as to why.

No disrespect taken. This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but a fairly informative article none the less.
Osmosis and Plant Nutrition

very aware of the basics of plant feeding and effect of salt on a plant. It still to me anyway doesn't explain the lets cut my nutes train of thought. Not all nutes are salt based anyway. Cyco, green planet, both very good nutrients...... Ran at full strength. As I troll this forum I se deficiency after deficiency. Does it have to do with bad advice? I would hope we wouldn't be sabotaging our fellow growers that way so we would need a forum to turn to for help. By the by I run coco and my ph comes out decent enough for my lady's. Only did one soil grow. Hated it.

Yes and No.

We are helpless consumers, they are enterprises that have millions in the bank, they brainwash us to buy their stuff.
Welcome to the Machine.
If we don't buy their uh...stuff, then we would probably be forced into communism.
We NEED people to throw away their money or else our freedom economy lifestyle would become a train wreck real fast.

The point is, you could be in the 1% that doesn't buy it. Like me, The Vladinator. Toiling away, destroying plants and delaying flowers and premium smoking time, The Vlad experiments with home made nutrient recipes until it's DONE!

Flower time is a delicate time where YOU the grower must observe and react in due time or miss the opportunity to break the 1 gram per watt barrier that many people suffer.

There is a science, and it's not rocket science, or pseudo science.

After the stretch, you NEED to cut back a certain amount. You NEED to change the formula after stretch to meet the new metabolic standard the plant is presenting at that time. You don't see crazy huge fan leaves growing at week 6 in flower, you see calyxes and bud leaf. Much smaller so do the math. Where would all that extra nutrient go if the plant's metabolic rate is slowed down?

THINK, Comrades. Don't buy into everything, the market is full of anecdotal claims. I offer no secrets to sell, only encouragement!
Start at 600 PPM and move up when the Plants shows you its hunger signs. When she's nice and green, back off a little. Don't over feed for nothing!

And I better back peddle a little bit here for the benefit of our Friendly 420Magazine website that we enjoy to visit every day. Support our sponsors and buy the stuff. Just use it wisely LESS is MORE!
And LEARN! These 3 part nutrients can easily be made by YOU. They come in 3 bottles because they cannot be stored together as there would be precipitation and then your plants wouldn't absorb the soup you've concocted. Just chemicals. I buy my own PH up and down at the chemical store, Nitric Acid for Down, Phosphoric Acid for Down, Sulfuric Acid for Down... My plant gets all the yummies and they are cheap and last a long time.

Vlad

 

[VladimirPutin]

BUMP

Questions? Come on , pick my mind while I'm high

V

 

[neon green]

Sorry I seem a little abrasive but seeing regurgitated hearsay taken as law with no study to back it makes me nuts. I'm a flat earth guy also.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Yes, we must fight back against the mafias of disinformation.
They cannot control all of us.
They know what they are doing. This is like an easy game for those that live off of the backs of hundreds, thousands, even millions of people.
But I digress I've learned a ton since joining here less than a year ago. Great community !

The plant's necessities taught me how even we ourselves, the high and lofty demi-gods that we think we are, the humans, also need nutrients but on a different scale than plants. As we get older, the ice cream and the mcdonald's apple pies don't go down like they used to. Only solution is to find our own nutrient deficiencies or else after the collapse of efficient digestion comes cancer and other disease.





Vlad