Why organic nutrients do not work in coco

[The123321]

I am in my first grow and I tried dr earth dry slow release fertilizer mixed into the coco coir with perlite. It was recommended by many people on the forum to not do it. I tried it anyway and I wish I had not. I have learned my lesson on that and I am now trying a more proven method with biotabs for my next grow on there.

I would like to talk through the organic nutrients and why they do not work with someone that knows more about it. My understanding is that coco does not hold onto the nutrients like soil does and you also water coco like 2-3 times more often than you do with soil then if you follow the recommended levels on the bag that is recommended for soil it is more nutrients than the plants want since you are watering more often it releases the nutrients 2-3 times more often than it would in soil right? In coco if you water to runoff like is what many websites recommend then you water away the dry amendments you mixed into the coco. Then would you be able to do dry amendments in coco if you do like 1/3 of the recommended level mixed in with the coco and instead of watering to runoff you water it and let the pot sit in the runoff long enough to wick it back into the pot? Then it is not losing those nutrients and the plant gets it back when it wicks back up into the pot on there.

Then if you do a much lower amount of the nutrients mixed in to make up for the extra watering you do on coco with the not draining to waste and letting the plant wick the water with nutrients back into the pot would that not make it work better with coco? Like do 1/3 of the recommended amount of dry slow release organic fertilizer mixed into the pot then top dress it more often to make up for that on there.

I know that organic fertilizer in coco is not recommended and I am not planning to try dr earth dry fertilizer in my next grow I am just wanting to talk it out with those of you that know more about this than I do. I have read that many people are wanting to try dry amendments in coco then it would likely be helpful to them if there is a way to make that work on there.

 

[TorturedSoul]

So-called "organic" nutrients are generally not recommended in any kind of hydroponic setup.

 

[gr865]

It is because it leads to bio-film in the rez, not a good thing.

 

[Emilya Green]

People seem to forget that organic nutrients that are normally put into soil, are not yet available to the plant. It REQUIRES the microbes in the soil to process these raw nutrients, and it is the output from the microbes that is fed to the plant. Without microbes, feeding does not occur.
Coco can not support this feeding circle. Microbes can only temporarily exist in coco, and the multiple varieties of microbes that work in our soil, can not thrive in coco. You can keep pouring active microbes in and get some benefit to a coco grow from dry amendments, but nothing like what happens in soil.

 

[The123321]

People seem to forget that organic nutrients that are normally put into soil, are not yet available to the plant. It REQUIRES the microbes in the soil to process these raw nutrients, and it is the output from the microbes that is fed to the plant. Without microbes, feeding does not occur.
Coco can not support this feeding circle. Microbes can only temporarily exist in coco, and the multiple varieties of microbes that work in our soil, can not thrive in coco. You can keep pouring active microbes in and get some benefit to a coco grow from dry amendments, but nothing like what happens in soil.

Thanks. That is the kind of information I am looking for. I read that biochar helps microbes in the medium. What do you think about adding biochar to coco on there?

 

[Slicknick909]

Thanks. That is the kind of information I am looking for. I read that biochar helps microbes in the medium. What do you think about adding biochar to coco on there?

Adding biochar to coco coir would be a moot point, the whole point of using coco coir is to have an inert medium to grow a plant in a hydroponic manner. The biochar wouldn't necessarily give microbes a place to live in coco coir, it helps in LOS because of a symbiotic relationship between the decomposing organic matter and microbes/beneficial bacteria. If you want to use organic fertilizer or bio tabs I'd highly recommend picking up a bag of FFOF and growing in it instead of the coco coir, I think you'll be much happier in the long run.

 

[The123321]

Thanks. The dry amendments I am using have microbes in it. I know that the general thinking is dry amendments do not work in coco though I have talked to quite a few people that have made it work. I think it is possible though it may not be ideal to do on there.

 

[Slicknick909]

Thanks. The dry amendments I am using have microbes in it. I know that the general thinking is dry amendments do not work in coco though I have talked to quite a few people that have made it work. I think it is possible though it may not be ideal to do on there.

Why do you want to use coco coir instead of LOS? Dry amendments will just wash out of the coco and the microbes won't even survive. You're making things a lot harder for yourself than they have to be!

 

[TurboBucket]

Pro mix hp would be closer to giving you what you're looking for in a medium. It is peat moss based and allows for a microherd to grow. As mentioned though if you want organic make LOS, if you want organic from a package I think that's why everyone uses FF.

I ran a natural nutrient line in pro mix when I started with good success.

 

[The123321]

Thanks. The bags of soil I have found online to buy have reviews talking about bugs in the bags even the popular brands I have read about on the forums. I know that coco has problems with bugs though I would rather not buy bagged soil with the higher probability of it having bugs or bug eggs like fungus gnat eggs in the soil when you buy it on there.

 

[Slicknick909]

Thanks. The bags of soil I have found online to buy have reviews talking about bugs in the bags even the popular brands I have read about on the forums. I know that coco has problems with bugs though I would rather not buy bagged soil with the higher probability of it having bugs or bug eggs like fungus gnat eggs in the soil when you buy it on there.

Seems like a silly reason to avoid soil when it's just as easy to get fungus gnats with coco, but to each their own. But if I were you I'd just run straight coco coir, a nutrient like MegaCrop and grow good bud simply, don't try adding amendments and microbes and other stuff that is not going to do anything to better your plants, you're wasting money and time.

 

[The123321]

Thanks. I have had a few threads asking for tips and advice on how to make dry amendments work in coco for my grow. I made this thread because in looking up how to do it I found a few people asking similar questions many of which are likely from the popular youtuber mr canuck that does dry amendments in coco with success on youtube. I made this thread to talk it out with people to try to figure out how it could work. From what I have read I know the general thinking of most people is that organic dry amendments does not work in coco then whenever you ask about it people often just say dont do it do soil instead without much of the why that is. I have read from many people that have made it work. I just thought it would be nice to have a talk with people that know more about it than I do and try to figure out ways to make it work on there. I do not plan to try dr earth dry fertilizer in coco for my next grow. I am planning to use biotabs using their recommended guide which also recommends either 50 50 soil perlite or 50 50 coco perlite on there then watering with tap water though every 2 weeks it recommends putting in feeding with microbes on there. That may be why it works in coco with biotabs due to the recommended adding in more microbes every 2 weeks on there.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I suppose that the short, possibly brutal, answer to your question as stated in the subject line of this thread is "They can be made to work, just as you can get to work by pushing your truck instead of driving it, lol. With roughly the same level of utility, enjoyment, et cetera.

Is it that you simply cannot source "synthetic" nutrients in your country? Somewhere in Africa, maybe, or... Belarus?

EDIT: Because if you can get more compatible nutrients, you would be very well advised to get something like the CannaCoco line of nutrients. (Hint: "Coco" is in the name for a reason .)

 

[Emilya Green]

You can get bugs in your coco grow too... that isnt a guarantee against bugs. Bagged soil often times has bugs. So, no problem. Run it a couple of gallons at a time through your oven, set at 250 degrees for 15 minutes. This will kill any bugs that might be living or getting ready to hatch in your soil. Whether I was buying from an online dealer or a local department store, I will always take this precaution with commercial soil.

Forums are like the melting pot of all rumors and stories of bad things that might befall your plants. If all you do is read these stories without trying things yourself, you will never be an experienced grower and you will always be susceptible to the next rumor that comes along.

 

[The123321]

Seems like a silly reason to avoid soil when it's just as easy to get fungus gnats with coco, but to each their own. But if I were you I'd just run straight coco coir, a nutrient like MegaCrop and grow good bud simply, don't try adding amendments and microbes and other stuff that is not going to do anything to better your plants, you're wasting money and time.

Thanks. The idea is that while yes coco may have bug problems soil has a lot more bug problems and I think it is more likely to get bugs from a bag of soil you buy than a brick of coco that you rehydrate right? Either way I have lots of reasons for why I wanted to do dry amendments in coco. I am wanting to do a 4 plant perpetual grow with autos in 1 tent with all 4 plants on the same reservoir with 2 plants that you plant every 6 weeks to where you could harvest 2 plants every 6 weeks in the tent and I needed something that would let me water with the same thing from 1 reservoir for the 4 plants even though you planted the plants at different times on there.

That is not what this thread is about why soil is better than coco or why you should use liquid nutrients in coco. This thread is about trying to figure out how to make dry amendments work in coco on there.

 

[Slicknick909]

If you want a great organic solution to fungus gnats for soil this is what I use in LOS with great results, haven't had a fungus gnat in my soil plants since using it! I wouldn't let pests deter me from growing great herb in soil, the flavor is unmatchable with coco coir and other hydro if you ask me.

 

[Slicknick909]

Thanks. The idea is that while yes coco may have bug problems soil has a lot more bug problems and I think it is more likely to get bugs from a bag of soil you buy than a brick of coco that you rehydrate right? Either way I have lots of reasons for why I wanted to do dry amendments in coco. I am wanting to do a 4 plant perpetual grow with autos in 1 tent with all 4 plants on the same reservoir with 2 plants that you plant every 6 weeks to where you could harvest 2 plants every 6 weeks in the tent and I needed something that would let me water with the same thing from 1 reservoir for the 4 plants even though you planted the plants at different times on there.

That is not what this thread is about why soil is better than coco or why you should use liquid nutrients in coco. This thread is about trying to figure out how to make dry amendments work in coco on there.

I've gotten fungus gnats in bricks of Canna coco before, it's grower error most of the time, not the soils fault.

 

[Emilya Green]

Thanks. I have had a few threads asking for tips and advice on how to make dry amendments work in coco for my grow. I made this thread because in looking up how to do it I found a few people asking similar questions many of which are likely from the popular youtuber mr canuck that does dry amendments in coco with success on youtube. I made this thread to talk it out with people to try to figure out how it could work. From what I have read I know the general thinking of most people is that organic dry amendments does not work in coco then whenever you ask about it people often just say dont do it do soil instead without much of the why that is. I have read from many people that have made it work. I just thought it would be nice to have a talk with people that know more about it than I do and try to figure out ways to make it work on there. I do not plan to try dr earth dry fertilizer in coco for my next grow. I am planning to use biotabs using their recommended guide which also recommends either 50 50 soil perlite or 50 50 coco perlite on there then watering with tap water though every 2 weeks it recommends putting in feeding with microbes on there. That may be why it works in coco with biotabs due to the recommended adding in more microbes every 2 weeks on there.

It just sounds to me like you want to take a good amount of the money in your pocket and transfer it to someone elses pocket. Throw enough money at a grow and all sorts of silly and artificial things can be accomplished.

It sounds like you have this all figured out and someone has told you what to do. I don't see the point in coming on here and asking us if it will work then... most of the experienced growers in the forums have already found a method that works for them without having to jump through hoops and do all sorts of extra things like you are going to have to do here. It sounds like you are in it for the challenge, so good luck... but don't expect us to endorse this method... especially for a new grower. I will also say that you are not the first or the last person that the popular Mr. Canuck has led astray.

 

[The123321]

Thanks. The gnatrol is organic? The tent is in the closet in the bedroom a few feet from my bed with the exhaust going in the room I sleep in. I did not want to risk pesticides or anything like that with me breathing that air on there. Would watering with a mix of water and peroxide get rid of bugs in the soil you buy in the bag? Then flush with regular water before you mix in your dry amendments in it on there?

 

[TorturedSoul]

That is not what this thread is about why soil is better than coco or why you should use liquid nutrients in coco. This thread is about trying to figure out how to make dry amendments work in coco on there.

In that case, good luck with your... experiment. I used to purposely shoot myself in the foot, too. <SHRUGS> One day I ran out of feet, got tired of paying extra for bullets... and of doing everything the hard way solely because other people suggested that I probably shouldn't. But there are probably lots of members here who, not having to put up the money or deal with the disappointment, will be glad to be your "yes men."

Again, good luck!